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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' 23:50 - Nov 15 with 4507 viewsLibero

I've been doing a lot of reading lately about the influence of websites like 4chan and individuals like Richard Spencer who are pushing the alt right movement in the USA.

Check out this great lecture, really eye opening, well worth listening to.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:27 - Nov 16 with 598 viewsimsureazzure

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:22 - Nov 16 by Libero

If that's your attempt at a modern day Enoch Powell tribute I'll give you a solid 6/10.

In seriousness though mate, have you followed the thread or listened to any of the lecture I posted? There's a pretty open discourse about what the alt right are and what it means to be alt right, more than that two people who identify as on the left side of the spectrum (myself and CIL) have both stated how that kind of behaviour you're talking about isn't helpful and made it clear that the idea that everyone that leans to the right is some kind of monster is unhelpful and to be frank, stupid.

I understand your frustrations but this probably isn't the thread to get all hyperbolic when there's a serious attempt at bridge building educating and each other. It's imperative that those of us who are capable of reason and rationality attempt to construct some level of mutual understanding going forwards.
[Post edited 16 Nov 12:25]


I haven't but will, it just grates me that the good points become swamped by an echo chamber of pins in the eyes of posters who form an alternative argument.

Your point is received and understood, I will bail out.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:27 - Nov 16 with 596 viewschicoazul

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 09:37 - Nov 16 by bluemurder

What I’m saying is that younge didn’t really have a counter argument. He should be focusing on the outcomes the likes of spencer expect from their movement and then tear that down.

Arguing some hypothetical argument that Africa would be prosperous now if there had never been any outside influences is distracting.


Distracting for whom? You, maybe.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:32 - Nov 16 with 587 viewschicoazul

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:12 - Nov 16 by imsureazzure

Down will come the troop, mutually appreciating, condoning violence, name checking other posters and following that with a smug insult, the pack mentality burning any comparison of the hard right to the hard Maoist left that is invading Britain's culture under the banner of the once working mans political party.

It must be cathartic to screech about the same splinter under the nail every day, surely it must.


These are all good points and although this is just a stupid football message board, what we see here daily underline the problems the centre-left has in modern society in that to many people they are seen as smug entitled conformist and self-appreciative.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:44 - Nov 16 with 562 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:27 - Nov 16 by imsureazzure

I haven't but will, it just grates me that the good points become swamped by an echo chamber of pins in the eyes of posters who form an alternative argument.

Your point is received and understood, I will bail out.


It's an interesting listen, albeit a bit dry at times due to it's Academic nature, but I'm a bore and love this kind of thing.

Absolutely understand what you're saying and I agree.

I've a feeling that the kind of leftist you're talking about is becoming as much maligned as those on the far right of the spectrum. I pinpointed South Park earlier but there's a few commentaries that are being played out in media currently that reflects the equal distain for both alt right and 'libtards' alike.
The current series of American Horror Story reflects on precisely the themes we're discussing here and despite tricking viewers at different points into believing they're taking a globalist/leftist establishment mainstream media view of the events of the last five years they instead have produced somewhat of a biopsy of the current climate.

I guess some people will dismiss this and South Park as 'just TV shows' but to me it's interesting how these themes are running currently in relative real time along real life events.
Kinda mirrors the nature of 24 hour news in my opinion.

Here's a link to the book I'm reading at the moment, as I say I'd highly recommend.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Let-Past-Your-Future/dp/147212345X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=U

Hypernormalisation for anyone who hasn't seen it is also available on YouTube


I've also found this a very enlightening YouTube channel when searching for something to contextualise the online events and 'raids' I've read about that are allegedly pivotal in creating the climate for Trump and the alt right to prosper. It's called 'Internet Historian' - I have tried to link it but I think it just attempts to embed it unfortunately...


On top of that I've been spending time on sites like 4chan and reddit.
Let me tell you that being on those sites is mind warping, there's something about the way in which they run which allows incredibly toxic stuff to prosper, yet it clearly resonates with a disturbing number of individuals.

It certainly makes this place even at it's very worst look tamer than tame, which is in no way an insult.
[Post edited 16 Nov 12:56]
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:45 - Nov 16 with 559 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:32 - Nov 16 by chicoazul

These are all good points and although this is just a stupid football message board, what we see here daily underline the problems the centre-left has in modern society in that to many people they are seen as smug entitled conformist and self-appreciative.


I agree, however In the interest of balance we also see a lot of problematic behaviour from those on the right of the spectrum.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:03 - Nov 16 with 529 viewsDesmond

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 11:40 - Nov 16 by Libero

I'm with you, although it is hard to find redeeming points in the alt right's obsession with race, religion and ethnicity. Especially when you actually listen to the likes of Spencer and realise for all intensive purposes his rhetoric is almost identical to that of Germany's National Socialist Workers' Party.

But if I'm right in interpreting what you've said you're talking more on an individual basis?
For example, the crew on here who consistently support the alt right aren't necessarily evil just because they support the alt right? That's something I can fully get on board with.
In my opinion the vast majority of people who will be supporting/defending/following this movement won't actually fully understand the rhetoric or potential implications of doing so.
Each individual is motivated by their own set of circumstances/reasons/philosophy.
I don't think any reasonable, balanced and educated person could imply that good and evil are even actually a thing.

That being said it doesn't stop it being frustrating when people attempt to defend the indefensible and a lot of the 'triggered' responses from 'libtards' play right into the hands of the people conducting this hate.

South Park are offering a really interesting commentary on how to deal with Trump/Trump supporters/the alt right at the moment. The most recent episode especially highlights how the kind of 'triggered' and smug responses of the left feeds directly into people who aren't sure just doubling down and going harder when what is really needed is unification we continually drive a wedge between each other and maybe currently we have the world that we deserve?
Anyway, my take away from it all was that simply calling people nazis or shouting someone down as racist will only perpetuate the current situation and potentially exacerbate it into precisely the kind of dystopian nightmare that many crowed about upon Trumps election.
I'm determined not to be part of the self fulfilling prophecy amongst my cohort and instead have decided to read, research and do my best to understand what's happening, why it's happening and hopefully find a way to engage by offering sources such as the lecture in the OP or offering recommendations of books/documentaries/etc.

The smug "I told you so" attitude of the left coupled with the tendency of those on the left who aren't particularly bright to attempt to shut down discourse needs to stop and every attempt must be made to engage hearts and minds.

At least that's what I think after spending a few days researching...


Wait a minute brother. Are you seriously quoting a TV cartoon show as a way to deal with a far right political movement?
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:12 - Nov 16 with 519 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:03 - Nov 16 by Desmond

Wait a minute brother. Are you seriously quoting a TV cartoon show as a way to deal with a far right political movement?


Jesus, still working multiple accounts hey?

No, I'm not quoting a TV cartoon show as a way to deal with a far right political movement.
I'm saying that a TV cartoon show is one of many sources over many different mediums that has inspired me and enlightened me as to how to deal with far right political movement and the problems within the left.

See you in another life brother. xoxo
[Post edited 16 Nov 13:13]
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:20 - Nov 16 with 500 viewsSwansea_Blue

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 10:54 - Nov 16 by caught-in-limbo

Thanks Libby, that looks very interesting. I've listened to the first 10 minutes and will listen to the rest this evening.

The comments on this thread have already started to polarise opinion on this topic. There are those that feel that this is an attack on the right by an increasingly permissive society and others who defend what are currently called "progressive" values who are standing up against what they see as intolerance.

Information about the alt-right seems to get all the air time because its supporters are so objectionable to the majority in western society today.

Being a mixed-race European teacher, I identify myself far more with the left than I do with the right - but I don't go for this "alt-right is evil, progressive is good" narrative which I believe is thrust upon us. "Progressive" power is far more soft and is entrenched far more deeply in our society by constant reinforcement by our media. The alt-right recognise this and respond in a very ugly and sickeningly intolerant way.

It's my view that both sides are being played by the same people. We as normal European citizens are being asked to decide which side we are on. The sensible answer is of course easy: we want to be on the side of tolerance, peace and equality, and although that is the view of the overwhelming majority, our society is moving in an increasingly unpeaceful, intolerant and unequal direction. The alt-right will argue that this is because of the left's excessively tolerant and forgiving attitude to real dangers, while the left blame the alt-right.

This game is played out here on this site every day.

I must have posted these types of quotes on this site 10 times in the last 2 years, but it sums up what is happening to our society:





#divide&conquer


We are being played by the same people: one if which is the Russian propaganda machine if reports about tweets linked to the London attacks are correct. Divide and conquer indeed.

Those quotes are (a) taken out of context, (b) false, (c) renounced by Orwell himself (and also taken out of context). They're a common part of the 'alt-right' toolkit apparently.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:41 - Nov 16 with 471 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:20 - Nov 16 by Swansea_Blue

We are being played by the same people: one if which is the Russian propaganda machine if reports about tweets linked to the London attacks are correct. Divide and conquer indeed.

Those quotes are (a) taken out of context, (b) false, (c) renounced by Orwell himself (and also taken out of context). They're a common part of the 'alt-right' toolkit apparently.


Call me a skeptic but I think it's good house keeping to ignore all of that type of meme.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:51 - Nov 16 with 458 viewslowhouseblue

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:20 - Nov 16 by Swansea_Blue

We are being played by the same people: one if which is the Russian propaganda machine if reports about tweets linked to the London attacks are correct. Divide and conquer indeed.

Those quotes are (a) taken out of context, (b) false, (c) renounced by Orwell himself (and also taken out of context). They're a common part of the 'alt-right' toolkit apparently.


the 'anti-democracy, anti-west, the government and the press conspire to control us and lie to us' brigade are fellow travellers of the alt-right. they share common roots, and, as you say, the same tool kit. they all aim to spread confusion, fake news and mistrust - as does, coincidently, mr putin.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:03 - Nov 16 with 439 viewsbluemurder

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:27 - Nov 16 by chicoazul

Distracting for whom? You, maybe.


Ok smartarse, explain to me exactly what the continent of Africa would be like now if no European had set foot on it.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:09 - Nov 16 with 425 viewsBluesquid

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:20 - Nov 16 by Swansea_Blue

We are being played by the same people: one if which is the Russian propaganda machine if reports about tweets linked to the London attacks are correct. Divide and conquer indeed.

Those quotes are (a) taken out of context, (b) false, (c) renounced by Orwell himself (and also taken out of context). They're a common part of the 'alt-right' toolkit apparently.


If reports are correct?

Why don't you wait until they are proven with evidence to be correct.

'You, sir, are guilty and sentenced based on...reports - if they are correct'

Being played and fooled it seems...hook,line and sinker.
[Post edited 16 Nov 14:18]
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:13 - Nov 16 with 414 viewsHerbivore

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:12 - Nov 16 by imsureazzure

Down will come the troop, mutually appreciating, condoning violence, name checking other posters and following that with a smug insult, the pack mentality burning any comparison of the hard right to the hard Maoist left that is invading Britain's culture under the banner of the once working mans political party.

It must be cathartic to screech about the same splinter under the nail every day, surely it must.


I see blue oyster has let you out of the gimp dungeon for the day.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:15 - Nov 16 with 407 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:03 - Nov 16 by bluemurder

Ok smartarse, explain to me exactly what the continent of Africa would be like now if no European had set foot on it.


You're typically completely missing the point.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:16 - Nov 16 with 403 viewsSpruceMoose

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:13 - Nov 16 by Herbivore

I see blue oyster has let you out of the gimp dungeon for the day.


Trolls of a feather, flock together.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:17 - Nov 16 with 396 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:09 - Nov 16 by Bluesquid

If reports are correct?

Why don't you wait until they are proven with evidence to be correct.

'You, sir, are guilty and sentenced based on...reports - if they are correct'

Being played and fooled it seems...hook,line and sinker.
[Post edited 16 Nov 14:18]


Probably because he's already caviac his comments with 'if' and he's talking as an individual not as a representative of any country, business, organisation, political movement, etc.

Personally I don't see anything problematic with his comment.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:18 - Nov 16 with 393 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:16 - Nov 16 by SpruceMoose

Trolls of a feather, flock together.


In fairness imsureazzure isn't a troll.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:28 - Nov 16 with 381 viewsBluesquid

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:17 - Nov 16 by Libero

Probably because he's already caviac his comments with 'if' and he's talking as an individual not as a representative of any country, business, organisation, political movement, etc.

Personally I don't see anything problematic with his comment.


Fair enough but even as individuals we shouldn't just take someones or some organisations word as the truth and instead work with solid proof and evidence. Don't you think?
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:30 - Nov 16 with 377 viewsbaxterbasics

Much more worried about the rise of the left in the UK, tbh.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:30 - Nov 16 with 377 viewsbluemurder

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 10:23 - Nov 16 by Libero

Eurgh, way to make yourself even more ignorant to the subject.

Regardless what you think of Jeremy Corbyn the idea that his rhetoric, policies or actions can be held up as some kind of equal and opposite to that of Richard Spencer and the alt right is absolutely hilarious.

If you're looking for a legitimate opposite to the alt right movement I'd suggest maybe occupy/anonymous? Although politically there would have/will be still right leaning people in these groups.

The alt right are succeeding where these groups failed, they are taking advantage of momentum and encouraging people from behind keyboards to make themselves known on mass in an attempt to force real world tangible change instead of suffocating themselves under levels of burocorisy in the way occupy did before it eventually fizzled out and everything went back to normal.

Actually now I think about it the closest comparison I can draw is potentially the Arab Spring, but again it suffered many of the same pitfalls of the occupy movement.
This is illustrated beautifully in Adam Curtis' documentary Hypernormalisation.
[Post edited 16 Nov 10:25]


I’m saying it’s not ok to go around killing and maiming your political opponents.

I am also not comparing the likes of far right groups to the far left. The far right are powerless irrelevant idiots. The far left are getting dangerously close to the levers of power in this country
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:37 - Nov 16 with 360 viewsNo9

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:30 - Nov 16 by bluemurder

I’m saying it’s not ok to go around killing and maiming your political opponents.

I am also not comparing the likes of far right groups to the far left. The far right are powerless irrelevant idiots. The far left are getting dangerously close to the levers of power in this country


That is one of the most stupid posts this year.
You are either sleeping or not looking at reality.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:37 - Nov 16 with 360 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:30 - Nov 16 by bluemurder

I’m saying it’s not ok to go around killing and maiming your political opponents.

I am also not comparing the likes of far right groups to the far left. The far right are powerless irrelevant idiots. The far left are getting dangerously close to the levers of power in this country


You really sound like you've done your research...
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:38 - Nov 16 with 360 viewsLibero

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:30 - Nov 16 by baxterbasics

Much more worried about the rise of the left in the UK, tbh.


Why's that baxterbasics?

The alt right phenomena isn't exclusive to the U.S, it's global.
[Post edited 16 Nov 14:39]
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:39 - Nov 16 with 354 viewsnoggin

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 00:17 - Nov 16 by HennersITFC

Coincidentally to you posting this Spencer (and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon) are whinging on Twitter that their blue ticks have been removed.

Did you see this last week where Gary Younge interviewed Spencer? Remarkable.



Wow! How did Gary Younge not smash that c u nt right between the eyes. I was raging just watching it.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:39 - Nov 16 with 351 viewsbaxterbasics

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 10:07 - Nov 16 by BlueBadger

Ah, the old 'opposing nazis is as bad as being a nazi' fallacy.


The correct way to fight bad ideas is to counter with good ideas and win the argument.

Punching people isn't opposing, and is only justified if you are getting punched in the first place (or about to).

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