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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' 23:50 - Nov 15 with 4526 viewsLibero

I've been doing a lot of reading lately about the influence of websites like 4chan and individuals like Richard Spencer who are pushing the alt right movement in the USA.

Check out this great lecture, really eye opening, well worth listening to.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 22:55 - Nov 16 with 716 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 22:25 - Nov 16 by lowhouseblue

russia gets caught trolling and interfering in foreign elections. answer: throw some dirt at everyone else and hope some of it sticks. when none of it sticks you can then fall back to the 'no smoke without fire' line. easy peasy.

and that david wolfe link is proper mad - he's clearly just an anti-vacine nutter.


I think that the word May used in her speech a couple of days back was that the Russians were suspected of "meddling" ! ! Now can anybody think of any other nations that may have meddled in recent years.....quite laughable. Suck it up !
[Post edited 16 Nov 22:56]
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:00 - Nov 16 with 714 viewsFootballpete

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 20:34 - Nov 16 by caught-in-limbo

OK, let's start from the top.

1) "operative" : a person who works secretly for an organisation (Cambridge online dictionary).
In what way was Putin a KGB operative? or are you just repeating what you hear in the media?

2) "The Soviet Union had the most paranoid and intricate espionage infrastructure of any state in history." How are you measuring that? or are you just repeating what you hear in the media?
[Post edited 16 Nov 21:23]


I really don't understand what it is you're disagreeing with? I've just stated what is common knowledge. I've read it in the 'media' in so much as books are a form of media. If that's the yardstick, if it wasn't for the 'media' I wouldn't even know what Russia was.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:07 - Nov 16 with 702 viewslowhouseblue

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 22:46 - Nov 16 by caught-in-limbo

The way you magically appear to counter everything I say, moments after I say it is incredible. The way you don't deal with the content of the articles I post, but shoot the messenger is very telling. All you do is defame other posters and prejudice others against them

I really can't think of a bigger paid internet troll on this site than you to be honest. My only doubt is which other TWTD posters sit next to you at your work. That said, you and your aliases are by far and away the best at your job on this site.


that's all very lovely, but that david wolf link is proper mad isn't it. you do hang out, politically speaking, with some right dodgy characters you know.

i respond to your posts because this is a public forum and you consistently post politically loaded nonsense. that anti-vacine chap doesn't even make it all the way to fake news. if donald trump posted on twtd i'd challenge him as well.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:16 - Nov 16 with 691 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:00 - Nov 16 by Footballpete

I really don't understand what it is you're disagreeing with? I've just stated what is common knowledge. I've read it in the 'media' in so much as books are a form of media. If that's the yardstick, if it wasn't for the 'media' I wouldn't even know what Russia was.


It was also common knowledge that Putin "was head of the KGB" because Obama publicly made the claim. It was a lie, people fell for it. StokieBlue posted the claim right on this website too.

I'm not saying that Putin didn't work for the KGB (actually, he worked for the PGU which fell under the umbrella of the KGB) but his position wasn't secret. George Bush Senior was former Director of the CIA and he became POTUS.

So Bush was the director of the CIA and Putin a middle-ranking officer in the KGB. But Russia is the espionage state but the USA isn't?

Of course both countries spy on each other and try to affect each other's elections. But the idea that a team of Russians in a building in St Petersburg trolling on social media got Trump into the White House makes the USA with the defence expenditure it has appear like little more than a banana republic.

As I said, it is the ultimate conspiracy theory.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:23 - Nov 16 with 684 viewsBluesquid

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 21:45 - Nov 16 by m14_blue

Do you not think the kremlin attempts to interfere in the affairs and elections of other countries at all then? It's all just a myth deliberately perpetuated by the west?

Genuine question, I don't know enough to conclude either way.


Well if they do what do you then call an attempt by a foreign occupying power that tried to circumvent British Parliamentary democracy in order to obtain funding for its military?
[Post edited 17 Nov 0:10]
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:24 - Nov 16 with 682 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:07 - Nov 16 by lowhouseblue

that's all very lovely, but that david wolf link is proper mad isn't it. you do hang out, politically speaking, with some right dodgy characters you know.

i respond to your posts because this is a public forum and you consistently post politically loaded nonsense. that anti-vacine chap doesn't even make it all the way to fake news. if donald trump posted on twtd i'd challenge him as well.


See you're doing your strawman/shoot the messenger thing again. The "anti-vaccine" man is reporting the leaked GCHQ documents as revealed by Glenn Greenwald. That was the point of my post, that all countries have teams of internet trolls. I see you're not disputing that, you're erecting a straw man instead.

Are you paid by GCHQ to post here?

Exposing the real Fake News http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/february2014/white_paper.pdf
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:26 - Nov 16 with 676 viewsFootballpete

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:16 - Nov 16 by caught-in-limbo

It was also common knowledge that Putin "was head of the KGB" because Obama publicly made the claim. It was a lie, people fell for it. StokieBlue posted the claim right on this website too.

I'm not saying that Putin didn't work for the KGB (actually, he worked for the PGU which fell under the umbrella of the KGB) but his position wasn't secret. George Bush Senior was former Director of the CIA and he became POTUS.

So Bush was the director of the CIA and Putin a middle-ranking officer in the KGB. But Russia is the espionage state but the USA isn't?

Of course both countries spy on each other and try to affect each other's elections. But the idea that a team of Russians in a building in St Petersburg trolling on social media got Trump into the White House makes the USA with the defence expenditure it has appear like little more than a banana republic.

As I said, it is the ultimate conspiracy theory.


I don't believe I mentioned the US? Of course the US meddles in the internal affairs of other nations for their own ends. That's what superpowers do. Russia sees itself as a superpower and will act as one accordingly. It's not a conspiracy.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:29 - Nov 16 with 669 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:26 - Nov 16 by Footballpete

I don't believe I mentioned the US? Of course the US meddles in the internal affairs of other nations for their own ends. That's what superpowers do. Russia sees itself as a superpower and will act as one accordingly. It's not a conspiracy.


conspiracy: the activity of secretly planning with other people to do something bad or illegal.

Is English your first language?

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:42 - Nov 16 with 652 viewsFootballpete

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:29 - Nov 16 by caught-in-limbo

conspiracy: the activity of secretly planning with other people to do something bad or illegal.

Is English your first language?


That's twice you've fallen back on stating the dictionary definition of a word rather than addressing the point made.

If you think that it's inconceivable that Russia would deliberately try and influence the internal affairs of its global rivals, then frankly you are either deluded or ignorant of history and how global powers behave more generally.

I look forward to the dictionary definition of any of the other words I've used.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:59 - Nov 16 with 625 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:42 - Nov 16 by Footballpete

That's twice you've fallen back on stating the dictionary definition of a word rather than addressing the point made.

If you think that it's inconceivable that Russia would deliberately try and influence the internal affairs of its global rivals, then frankly you are either deluded or ignorant of history and how global powers behave more generally.

I look forward to the dictionary definition of any of the other words I've used.


I'm giving you dictionary definitions because what you're saying makes little sense when the correct meaning of the words you are using are being applied. I'm giving you a chance to reword your comments or retract them.

The truth is, you haven't addressed any of my points, furthermore you have ignored what I've already said in this thread.

You said: "If you think that it's inconceivable that Russia would deliberately try and influence the internal affairs of its global rivals, then frankly you are either deluded or ignorant of history and how global powers behave more generally."

What part of "Of course both countries spy on each other and try to affect each other's elections."
( in a reply to you on this page of the thread) don't you understand?

and also what part of "No. I think most countries probably do what they can to influence things in their favour in foreign elections" (to another poster on page 4 of this thread) don't you understand?

So again:
Why are you calling Putin a KGB "operative"?
How can you prove "The Soviet Union had the most paranoid and intricate espionage infrastructure of any state in history?

There's more stuff you've misunderstood, but I don't want to give you too much to answer at a time.
[Post edited 17 Nov 0:10]

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 00:16 - Nov 17 with 586 viewsFootballpete

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:59 - Nov 16 by caught-in-limbo

I'm giving you dictionary definitions because what you're saying makes little sense when the correct meaning of the words you are using are being applied. I'm giving you a chance to reword your comments or retract them.

The truth is, you haven't addressed any of my points, furthermore you have ignored what I've already said in this thread.

You said: "If you think that it's inconceivable that Russia would deliberately try and influence the internal affairs of its global rivals, then frankly you are either deluded or ignorant of history and how global powers behave more generally."

What part of "Of course both countries spy on each other and try to affect each other's elections."
( in a reply to you on this page of the thread) don't you understand?

and also what part of "No. I think most countries probably do what they can to influence things in their favour in foreign elections" (to another poster on page 4 of this thread) don't you understand?

So again:
Why are you calling Putin a KGB "operative"?
How can you prove "The Soviet Union had the most paranoid and intricate espionage infrastructure of any state in history?

There's more stuff you've misunderstood, but I don't want to give you too much to answer at a time.
[Post edited 17 Nov 0:10]


What was Putin's role for the KGB in East Germany?

You have implied that the idea that the Russian government employs thousands of English speaking people to use social media in order disrupte the political systems of it's rivals is preposterous. I'm saying that it isn't, if you look at Russian history. How effective it is is another discussion, as is whether other major powers use similar measures.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 00:37 - Nov 17 with 557 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 00:16 - Nov 17 by Footballpete

What was Putin's role for the KGB in East Germany?

You have implied that the idea that the Russian government employs thousands of English speaking people to use social media in order disrupte the political systems of it's rivals is preposterous. I'm saying that it isn't, if you look at Russian history. How effective it is is another discussion, as is whether other major powers use similar measures.


"What was Putin's role for the KGB in East Germany? "

I have no idea. You say he was an "operative", yet I've found nothing to say that he ever acted under cover or incognito. I asked you to tell me how you know he was an operative. You just said it was common knowledge. It isn't, and until you can back up your claim with evidence, it's just hearsay.

I also asked you to prove "The Soviet Union had the most paranoid and intricate espionage infrastructure of any state in history" but you've ignored that request, because that's hearsay as well.

Finally, I didn't say that Russia didn't use trolls, in fact I acknowledged that they would be crazy not to. I said it was a conspiracy theory to believe that this group of trolls put Trump in the White House.

Exposing the real Fake News http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/february2014/white_paper.pdf
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 07:57 - Nov 17 with 482 viewslowhouseblue

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 23:24 - Nov 16 by caught-in-limbo

See you're doing your strawman/shoot the messenger thing again. The "anti-vaccine" man is reporting the leaked GCHQ documents as revealed by Glenn Greenwald. That was the point of my post, that all countries have teams of internet trolls. I see you're not disputing that, you're erecting a straw man instead.

Are you paid by GCHQ to post here?


and what you're doing is trying to develop the 'they're all as bad as each other' line in response to russia being caught trying to fix the us election. throw fake mud about, smear everyone you can and see if you can get them all down to the same level. a smoke screen of confusion and distrust is what you're after.

and i'm entirely freelance i'm afraid. i come from a world of reason and evidence. sorry about that.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 08:10 - Nov 17 with 471 viewsNo9

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 07:57 - Nov 17 by lowhouseblue

and what you're doing is trying to develop the 'they're all as bad as each other' line in response to russia being caught trying to fix the us election. throw fake mud about, smear everyone you can and see if you can get them all down to the same level. a smoke screen of confusion and distrust is what you're after.

and i'm entirely freelance i'm afraid. i come from a world of reason and evidence. sorry about that.


Was Russia trying to fix the US election? Was Russia colluding with one of its inward investors to encourage him to continue to invest?
When the then Home Secretary put in place systems to tell the Gov where we had all been on the internet do you really think she & her cronies didn't know how the Russians were getting into sites here to try to sway elections etc?
Edward Snowden has a lot of evidence, just don't ignore it
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 10:55 - Nov 17 with 438 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 07:57 - Nov 17 by lowhouseblue

and what you're doing is trying to develop the 'they're all as bad as each other' line in response to russia being caught trying to fix the us election. throw fake mud about, smear everyone you can and see if you can get them all down to the same level. a smoke screen of confusion and distrust is what you're after.

and i'm entirely freelance i'm afraid. i come from a world of reason and evidence. sorry about that.


lol

You appear to be saying that countries like the US, UK and Israel don't employ internet trolls - is that what you're saying?

Or is it only bad countries like Russia and China that have stumbled on this incredibly effective form of weaponised information?

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:20 - Nov 17 with 402 viewslowhouseblue

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 10:55 - Nov 17 by caught-in-limbo

lol

You appear to be saying that countries like the US, UK and Israel don't employ internet trolls - is that what you're saying?

Or is it only bad countries like Russia and China that have stumbled on this incredibly effective form of weaponised information?


i'm saying that russia has been caught trying to fix the us election and running a stable of social media trolls and fellow travellers (or convenient idiots as such people were known in stalin's day).

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:01 - Nov 17 with 362 viewseireblue

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 10:55 - Nov 17 by caught-in-limbo

lol

You appear to be saying that countries like the US, UK and Israel don't employ internet trolls - is that what you're saying?

Or is it only bad countries like Russia and China that have stumbled on this incredibly effective form of weaponised information?


You have opened my eyes.

The didn't know a 1% swing could influence an election in Russia and China and so making a caimpagn worthwhile.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:08 - Nov 17 with 355 viewsblue_oyster

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 00:37 - Nov 17 by caught-in-limbo

"What was Putin's role for the KGB in East Germany? "

I have no idea. You say he was an "operative", yet I've found nothing to say that he ever acted under cover or incognito. I asked you to tell me how you know he was an operative. You just said it was common knowledge. It isn't, and until you can back up your claim with evidence, it's just hearsay.

I also asked you to prove "The Soviet Union had the most paranoid and intricate espionage infrastructure of any state in history" but you've ignored that request, because that's hearsay as well.

Finally, I didn't say that Russia didn't use trolls, in fact I acknowledged that they would be crazy not to. I said it was a conspiracy theory to believe that this group of trolls put Trump in the White House.


Here he is, on his day off.


Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:41 - Nov 17 with 314 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:20 - Nov 17 by lowhouseblue

i'm saying that russia has been caught trying to fix the us election and running a stable of social media trolls and fellow travellers (or convenient idiots as such people were known in stalin's day).


I'll try again:

Do you think the US, UK and Israel don't employ internet trolls or is this highly effective form of weaponised information only employed by bad countries like China and Russia?

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:43 - Nov 17 with 306 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 13:01 - Nov 17 by eireblue

You have opened my eyes.

The didn't know a 1% swing could influence an election in Russia and China and so making a caimpagn worthwhile.


??

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:45 - Nov 17 with 299 viewsSpruceMoose

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:41 - Nov 17 by caught-in-limbo

I'll try again:

Do you think the US, UK and Israel don't employ internet trolls or is this highly effective form of weaponised information only employed by bad countries like China and Russia?


No doubt.

They've not been caught with their hand in the US election/Brexit cookie jar though. So, please, enough with the whataboutery.

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:45 - Nov 17 with 297 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 12:20 - Nov 17 by lowhouseblue

i'm saying that russia has been caught trying to fix the us election and running a stable of social media trolls and fellow travellers (or convenient idiots as such people were known in stalin's day).


Neigh, neigh !
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:50 - Nov 17 with 283 viewscaught-in-limbo

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:45 - Nov 17 by SpruceMoose

No doubt.

They've not been caught with their hand in the US election/Brexit cookie jar though. So, please, enough with the whataboutery.


lol

The US doesn't need to be caught influencing foreign elections. It's a news story if they're not involved. The British and Israelis are far less brazen and much more subtle about their influence, but probably no less involved.
[Post edited 17 Nov 14:51]

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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:50 - Nov 17 with 283 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:45 - Nov 17 by SpruceMoose

No doubt.

They've not been caught with their hand in the US election/Brexit cookie jar though. So, please, enough with the whataboutery.


However it seems thst some meddling is more newsworthy than others......!
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957

Edit....is there proof, or just allegations from 'security sources' ? I have seen proof of teenage fake news clickbaiters but not a lot else.
[Post edited 17 Nov 14:59]
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meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:54 - Nov 17 with 273 viewsSpruceMoose

meme wars, internet culture and the 'alt right' on 14:50 - Nov 17 by caught-in-limbo

lol

The US doesn't need to be caught influencing foreign elections. It's a news story if they're not involved. The British and Israelis are far less brazen and much more subtle about their influence, but probably no less involved.
[Post edited 17 Nov 14:51]


So... more whataboutery. Got it. Thanks for that.

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