| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks 10:02 - Nov 17 with 10438 views | giant_stow |
Is he taking the piss?! |  |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:36 - Nov 17 with 4951 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:27 - Nov 17 by Swansea_Blue |
You'd need a physical border and control for the passport/visa checks. |
Totally unimportant IMO. In any landlocked country you have hard border control on the main roads, or you can just take the country road and drive straight across. The real control comes with employment rights, etc |  | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:42 - Nov 17 with 4929 views | eireblue |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:36 - Nov 17 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Totally unimportant IMO. In any landlocked country you have hard border control on the main roads, or you can just take the country road and drive straight across. The real control comes with employment rights, etc |
Wait,...what,...you mean it is that simple.
We need to take this to someone near a large, but not largest, village green that has been worried about illegal immigrants for a while.
If only he had known. Hopefully he will start a caimpaign tomorrow to get this sort of thing enforced.
You're Welcome. [Post edited 17 Nov 2017 12:45]
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:44 - Nov 17 with 4915 views | No9 |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:36 - Nov 17 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Totally unimportant IMO. In any landlocked country you have hard border control on the main roads, or you can just take the country road and drive straight across. The real control comes with employment rights, etc |
& currently the law is clear, you only have the right to live & work in any EU country if you are a citizen or resident of any country that is a member of the EU.
The tories have not yet addressed that - I say tories because this is their show, no one else's |  | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:51 - Nov 17 with 4919 views | chicoazul |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:16 - Nov 17 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Why would that necessarily mean freedom of movement with the EU? Wouldn’t it be possible to have working visas for anyone with a non-Irish EU passport? |
Border control in other words. |  |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 13:51 - Nov 17 with 4877 views | giant_stow |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:36 - Nov 17 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Totally unimportant IMO. In any landlocked country you have hard border control on the main roads, or you can just take the country road and drive straight across. The real control comes with employment rights, etc |
If there's no hard border in Ireland (the island) then won't that mean we now have a land border with the EU? And won't that therefore make it easier for immigrants to sneak in to Britain than the current arrangement?
I admit I could have missed something (very easily!), but if not, in a Brexiter's mind who worries about immigration levels, we'd be worse off than now. | |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 13:59 - Nov 17 with 4860 views | chicoazul |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 13:51 - Nov 17 by giant_stow |
If there's no hard border in Ireland (the island) then won't that mean we now have a land border with the EU? And won't that therefore make it easier for immigrants to sneak in to Britain than the current arrangement?
I admit I could have missed something (very easily!), but if not, in a Brexiter's mind who worries about immigration levels, we'd be worse off than now. |
We do indeed have a land border with the EU. Due to agreements that Steve alluded to earlier there can be NO hard border as there was during the troubles etc. So yes indeed it will be very simple to get into British territory. As someone else said one way to enforce no freedom of movement would be in other ways eg employment controls and there is of course no downside to this because, as everyone knows, businesses in the UK are beyond reproach and would never act in bad faith in search of profits, so no farms would employ many illegal workers for instance. | |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:14 - Nov 17 with 4842 views | giant_stow |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 13:59 - Nov 17 by chicoazul |
We do indeed have a land border with the EU. Due to agreements that Steve alluded to earlier there can be NO hard border as there was during the troubles etc. So yes indeed it will be very simple to get into British territory. As someone else said one way to enforce no freedom of movement would be in other ways eg employment controls and there is of course no downside to this because, as everyone knows, businesses in the UK are beyond reproach and would never act in bad faith in search of profits, so no farms would employ many illegal workers for instance. |
chuckle, I *was* missing something! | |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:21 - Nov 17 with 4836 views | BOjK |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 13:59 - Nov 17 by chicoazul |
We do indeed have a land border with the EU. Due to agreements that Steve alluded to earlier there can be NO hard border as there was during the troubles etc. So yes indeed it will be very simple to get into British territory. As someone else said one way to enforce no freedom of movement would be in other ways eg employment controls and there is of course no downside to this because, as everyone knows, businesses in the UK are beyond reproach and would never act in bad faith in search of profits, so no farms would employ many illegal workers for instance. |
As complicated as the moving of people is the movement of goods. We currently are in a customs union, meaning goods can flow through the EU freely.
There appear to be two solutions.
One is that Northern Ireland leave the Customs Union with the rest of the UK and there are border checks between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
The other is that - uniquely - Northern Ireland remains part of the Customs Union, there is a free transfer of goods across the border in Ireland, but there have to be checks on transfers from the North to the UK (and vice versa, probably).
As far I can tell, that's pretty much it.
And neither solution works really. Nobody really wants the first, and the Unionists definitely don't want the second.
David Davis is instead asking for imaginative solutions to come from the EU, which is basically him asking for help.
As the Irish PM today said - people have been campaigning for a referendum for 10 years now, you'd have thought they'd have thought this through by now. [Post edited 17 Nov 2017 14:22]
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:23 - Nov 17 with 4817 views | No9 |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 13:51 - Nov 17 by giant_stow |
If there's no hard border in Ireland (the island) then won't that mean we now have a land border with the EU? And won't that therefore make it easier for immigrants to sneak in to Britain than the current arrangement?
I admit I could have missed something (very easily!), but if not, in a Brexiter's mind who worries about immigration levels, we'd be worse off than now. |
Watch carefully and see the tories claose all borders to stop the expensive EU workers coming in while flinging the borders wide open to cheap labour from Non Eu countries
You do have a point tho' one does not (currently) need a passport to go between R.o.I. & the UK | | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:26 - Nov 17 with 4823 views | Steve_M |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:21 - Nov 17 by BOjK |
As complicated as the moving of people is the movement of goods. We currently are in a customs union, meaning goods can flow through the EU freely.
There appear to be two solutions.
One is that Northern Ireland leave the Customs Union with the rest of the UK and there are border checks between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
The other is that - uniquely - Northern Ireland remains part of the Customs Union, there is a free transfer of goods across the border in Ireland, but there have to be checks on transfers from the North to the UK (and vice versa, probably).
As far I can tell, that's pretty much it.
And neither solution works really. Nobody really wants the first, and the Unionists definitely don't want the second.
David Davis is instead asking for imaginative solutions to come from the EU, which is basically him asking for help.
As the Irish PM today said - people have been campaigning for a referendum for 10 years now, you'd have thought they'd have thought this through by now. [Post edited 17 Nov 2017 14:22]
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There is, of course, a third solution that Ireland also leaves the EU. That this doesn't seem a particularly good idea to the Irish government and people certainly isn't preventing it's proponents from seeing it as the ideal solution. |  |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:33 - Nov 17 with 4812 views | Binner |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 12:16 - Nov 17 by No9 |
Wasn't the MBA obtainable by post? |
Moose'll get you one. $15.99 plus postage. |  |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:43 - Nov 17 with 4788 views | chicoazul |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:26 - Nov 17 by Steve_M |
There is, of course, a third solution that Ireland also leaves the EU. That this doesn't seem a particularly good idea to the Irish government and people certainly isn't preventing it's proponents from seeing it as the ideal solution. |
Wow that's actually a.....very good point. And arent they under the pump from the EU over Apple taxes at the moment?
EDIT: and a 4th option is NI leaves the UK. [Post edited 17 Nov 2017 14:44]
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:48 - Nov 17 with 4774 views | Luk38644 |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 10:29 - Nov 17 by chicoazul |
Then he joined the TA SAS to pay for his studies, got a Masters, went to Harvard, ran large companies in the UK and abroad and then became an MP. You were an Accountant at the council your whole working life weren't you? Not that there is anything wrong with that of course. |
Cor, take a bow! I think this should be the stock response whenever Factual mentions he is obsessed with David Davis. |  | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 21:48 - Nov 17 with 4684 views | bluejacko |
Well take the piss out of the Govt stance all you like but how many of these so called problems would magically disappear if we were to pay up the £Z billions they want before they will actually talk to us? | | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 07:32 - Nov 18 with 4626 views | m14_blue |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 21:48 - Nov 17 by bluejacko |
Well take the piss out of the Govt stance all you like but how many of these so called problems would magically disappear if we were to pay up the £Z billions they want before they will actually talk to us? |
What do you think the answer is then?
If it's just the EU being difficult presumably our negotiators have a watertight scheme for Ireland ready to go....? | | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 08:28 - Nov 18 with 4611 views | bluejacko |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 07:32 - Nov 18 by m14_blue |
What do you think the answer is then?
If it's just the EU being difficult presumably our negotiators have a watertight scheme for Ireland ready to go....? |
If they were to actually negotiate with us over a trade deal the problem would disappear overnight but they won’t will they because it’s all about the money! | | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 08:52 - Nov 18 with 4598 views | Herbivore |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 08:28 - Nov 18 by bluejacko |
If they were to actually negotiate with us over a trade deal the problem would disappear overnight but they won’t will they because it’s all about the money! |
How would the problem disappear overnight? You don't actually think we're going to get a free trade deal do you? |  |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 11:53 - Nov 18 with 4560 views | bluejacko |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 08:52 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
How would the problem disappear overnight? You don't actually think we're going to get a free trade deal do you? |
No I don’t but that is the point isn’t it? We want one they won’t give it to us so who is actually responsible for the deadlock.
Keeping the North in any customs union won’t work either that will just move any border issues to the U.K. mainland,don’t forget the vast majority of Ireland’s ferry traffic comes and goes through our ports!
The people have no problem whatsoever, my wife is from the North and she along with our children and grandchildren can get Irish passports whenever they like.
We could not enforce a hard border even if we wanted with all the roads that dip in and out over the border,we couldn’t do it with three brigades of troops in country so what chance would we have now? | | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 14:41 - Nov 18 with 4522 views | connorscontract |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 13:59 - Nov 17 by chicoazul |
We do indeed have a land border with the EU. Due to agreements that Steve alluded to earlier there can be NO hard border as there was during the troubles etc. So yes indeed it will be very simple to get into British territory. As someone else said one way to enforce no freedom of movement would be in other ways eg employment controls and there is of course no downside to this because, as everyone knows, businesses in the UK are beyond reproach and would never act in bad faith in search of profits, so no farms would employ many illegal workers for instance. |
Another complication which I haven't seen mentioned in the mainland British media:
The Good Friday agreement needs to be seen as a piece of Quantum Diplomacy. Since 2005 any child born in Northern Ireland is a Schrodinger's citizen they are potentially both Irish and British or Irish or British and no-one knows which until the box is open/the passport applied for.
The open border enhances this. It is effectively a way of saying this is both one island and two nations at the same time, coupled with the Irish citizenship act it does effectively give a symbolic quantum status to the island, the physical land, too.
A hard border, immigration control Brexit completely undermines this symbolic dual-state, dual State approach. While the border question has been raised repeatedly, the most farcical situation surrounds those born in Northern Ireland who have sole Irish citizenship.
Not only do they face the proapect of Border passport checks on their Irish passports, which hugely undermines the quantum approach, but they also now face the same question every other EU citizen who lives and works in the UK faces:
"On what terms do they have the right to remain in the UK post-Brexit? Will it only be a transitional arrangement? When will they find out? What will be their entitlement to treatment by the NHS or to benefits or pensions?"
We could have a situation post-Brexit where there is a flight of Irish citizens from to Eire from the North because of either uncertainty around these questions or unsatisfactory solutions, and border checks undermining The Good Friday Agreement.
That would cause a major breakdown in relations between the Nationalist community and the UK Government. And all this is being decided at a time when Stormont is in crisis and the UK Govt is being propped up by the DUP... | | | |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 13:49 - Nov 20 with 4460 views | Archer4721 |
Vince Cable sticking the boot in again
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 15:21 - Nov 20 with 4437 views | Herbivore |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 11:53 - Nov 18 by bluejacko |
No I don’t but that is the point isn’t it? We want one they won’t give it to us so who is actually responsible for the deadlock.
Keeping the North in any customs union won’t work either that will just move any border issues to the U.K. mainland,don’t forget the vast majority of Ireland’s ferry traffic comes and goes through our ports!
The people have no problem whatsoever, my wife is from the North and she along with our children and grandchildren can get Irish passports whenever they like.
We could not enforce a hard border even if we wanted with all the roads that dip in and out over the border,we couldn’t do it with three brigades of troops in country so what chance would we have now? |
We're causing the deadlock as we've gone in with no idea of what we actually want or how to move things forward. | |
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| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 17:04 - Nov 20 with 4404 views | Darth_Koont |
| David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks on 15:21 - Nov 20 by Herbivore |
We're causing the deadlock as we've gone in with no idea of what we actually want or how to move things forward. |
Exactly. And that's even if they weren't essentially just trying to manage their way through all the party political upheaval.
They have no idea what they want nor how to achieve it - both as politicians and as representatives of the UK's best interests. Ironic when their campaign on a personal and professional level was all about taking back control. |  |
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