What Trump's "America First" really means 09:18 - Dec 7 with 7714 views | Guthrum | Everything, including US foreign policy, will be subordinated to playing to his domestic audience. Never mind if it stuffs up the rest of the world, or even the efforts of his own State Department, as long as it panders to the attitudes of his baying supporters at home. Take the Jerusalem issue. Largely an empty gesture, liable to cause great trouble (there's a good chance people will die today during the protests), doesn't particularly serve American interests in the region, but pleases the millennialist lobby in the USA. Or the spat with Theresa May. Completely pointless. Nothing Trump says about international affairs (including North Korea, Iran, etc.) Is speaking outwards, to the world. It is all naerowly to polish (as he sees it) his domestic reputation. Edit: Whoops, posted in wrong category. [Post edited 7 Dec 2017 9:19]
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:20 - Dec 7 with 4443 views | unbelievablue | Such a departure from the 'hegemony or bust' style of US FP of the past. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:24 - Dec 7 with 4435 views | BackToRussia | It's all an exercise in narcissism, imposture and buffoonery. Trump is just a void which everything circles around. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:24 - Dec 7 with 4430 views | Guthrum |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:20 - Dec 7 by unbelievablue | Such a departure from the 'hegemony or bust' style of US FP of the past. |
At least with that, if you were a US ally, you could guarantee they would mostly be supporting your interests. Opponents knew what they were fighting against. Wars were not started by accident. This is too random to be safe. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:26 - Dec 7 with 4425 views | Guthrum |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:24 - Dec 7 by BackToRussia | It's all an exercise in narcissism, imposture and buffoonery. Trump is just a void which everything circles around. |
More a black hole, having something very dense at its core. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:29 - Dec 7 with 4416 views | caught-in-limbo | Trump is the pantomime villain in the panto production called "Western Values" broadcast by the mainstream media, directed by the CIA, and funded by the global bankers. We are the audience. Boooo! sssssssssssss! Get off! #enjoytheshow | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:33 - Dec 7 with 4402 views | chicoazul | I much preferred Obama's foreign policy of bombing women and children off the face of the earth with drones. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:40 - Dec 7 with 4391 views | HagbardCeline | Absolutely no different from any us president since jfk. Out of interest, have you heard jfks speeches on ending war and weapons manufacturing? Its almost surreal to listen to. | | | |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:42 - Dec 7 with 4379 views | connorscontract |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:24 - Dec 7 by Guthrum | At least with that, if you were a US ally, you could guarantee they would mostly be supporting your interests. Opponents knew what they were fighting against. Wars were not started by accident. This is too random to be safe. |
I largely agree with you but would point to the Contra affair and the Gulf War as two bizarre foreign policy excursions which are fairly hard to read as anything other than over-meddling for the sake of who knows what in the Contra case and leading most of their Allies into war to restore national pride post-9/11 in the other. Or maybe both were to do with dodgy figures in the shadows making lots of money. Reagan's foray into Grenada was also a little Trumpesque. | | | | Login to get fewer ads
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:43 - Dec 7 with 4376 views | DanTheMan |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:33 - Dec 7 by chicoazul | I much preferred Obama's foreign policy of bombing women and children off the face of the earth with drones. |
Which Trump has continued to do despite criticising Obama for it. We just don't hear about it as much. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:56 - Dec 7 with 4342 views | Guthrum |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:33 - Dec 7 by chicoazul | I much preferred Obama's foreign policy of bombing women and children off the face of the earth with drones. |
You're missing my point. Which is that the sole driver of Trump's foreign policy is short-term domestic acclaim. There is no consideration of worldwide benefits, alliances or even if it works. It's not entirely random, but it is dangerous. Trying to look tough on Korea or Iran could easily lead to conflict. Playing to the gallery on Israel causing trouble in the Middle East. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:01 - Dec 7 with 4332 views | blue_oyster | Where US Foreign Policy was so much *better* before, eh? All the people pro-war, who all supported the 'Arab Spring', the Blairites who supported the Iraq intervention are now all in full voice against US Foreign Policy. I don't think I've seen greater hypocrisy than this. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:04 - Dec 7 with 4332 views | Guthrum |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:42 - Dec 7 by connorscontract | I largely agree with you but would point to the Contra affair and the Gulf War as two bizarre foreign policy excursions which are fairly hard to read as anything other than over-meddling for the sake of who knows what in the Contra case and leading most of their Allies into war to restore national pride post-9/11 in the other. Or maybe both were to do with dodgy figures in the shadows making lots of money. Reagan's foray into Grenada was also a little Trumpesque. |
Iran-Contra was an outworking of the Cold War fight against perceived Soviet influence. As was Grenada. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was at least driven by an actual international situation, if fuelled by one man's ego. Trump has been attempting to upset a situation of detente with Iran and reduce it to hostility. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:35 - Dec 7 with 4290 views | BackToRussia |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:26 - Dec 7 by Guthrum | More a black hole, having something very dense at its core. |
Haha, dense, certainly! | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:36 - Dec 7 with 4288 views | chicoazul |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:43 - Dec 7 by DanTheMan | Which Trump has continued to do despite criticising Obama for it. We just don't hear about it as much. |
Correct of course but it still makes me laugh to read threads like these. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:38 - Dec 7 with 4280 views | BackToRussia |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:36 - Dec 7 by chicoazul | Correct of course but it still makes me laugh to read threads like these. |
*misread | |
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What Trump's on 10:40 - Dec 7 with 4271 views | caught-in-limbo |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:33 - Dec 7 by chicoazul | I much preferred Obama's foreign policy of bombing women and children off the face of the earth with drones. |
Republican or Democrat, it's pretty much the same foreign policy... bombing people into democracy or freedom from their leaders. But we think it's worth it. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:41 - Dec 7 with 4275 views | chicoazul |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:56 - Dec 7 by Guthrum | You're missing my point. Which is that the sole driver of Trump's foreign policy is short-term domestic acclaim. There is no consideration of worldwide benefits, alliances or even if it works. It's not entirely random, but it is dangerous. Trying to look tough on Korea or Iran could easily lead to conflict. Playing to the gallery on Israel causing trouble in the Middle East. |
Declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel is not in consideration of an alliance with Israel? Most everything the US does abroad could be "dangerous". I get a bit sick of people talking about softly softly with the likes of NK when clearly it doesn't work and NK develops more and more weapons power. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:47 - Dec 7 with 4246 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:42 - Dec 7 by connorscontract | I largely agree with you but would point to the Contra affair and the Gulf War as two bizarre foreign policy excursions which are fairly hard to read as anything other than over-meddling for the sake of who knows what in the Contra case and leading most of their Allies into war to restore national pride post-9/11 in the other. Or maybe both were to do with dodgy figures in the shadows making lots of money. Reagan's foray into Grenada was also a little Trumpesque. |
Not forgetting Nicaragua........viva Sandinista ! | |
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What Trump's on 10:48 - Dec 7 with 4245 views | chicoazul |
What Trump's on 10:40 - Dec 7 by caught-in-limbo | Republican or Democrat, it's pretty much the same foreign policy... bombing people into democracy or freedom from their leaders. But we think it's worth it. |
Certainly worked out great so far hasnt it. And we wonder why so many of both their people and our own hate us so much. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:48 - Dec 7 with 4238 views | caught-in-limbo |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:41 - Dec 7 by chicoazul | Declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel is not in consideration of an alliance with Israel? Most everything the US does abroad could be "dangerous". I get a bit sick of people talking about softly softly with the likes of NK when clearly it doesn't work and NK develops more and more weapons power. |
The US didn't go softly softly in Libya or Iraq - in your mind are they examples of US foreign policy which have "worked"? | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:50 - Dec 7 with 4238 views | chicoazul |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:48 - Dec 7 by caught-in-limbo | The US didn't go softly softly in Libya or Iraq - in your mind are they examples of US foreign policy which have "worked"? |
No. | |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 11:41 - Dec 7 with 4194 views | connorscontract |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:04 - Dec 7 by Guthrum | Iran-Contra was an outworking of the Cold War fight against perceived Soviet influence. As was Grenada. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was at least driven by an actual international situation, if fuelled by one man's ego. Trump has been attempting to upset a situation of detente with Iran and reduce it to hostility. |
Iran-Contra was also in a feedback loop with the "War on Drugs" policy pushed by Nancy Reagan, and created a whole protected class of hard-core high level cartels. Very bizarre muddled policy, bordering on the schizophrenic. I'm using it as an example of unilateral Americanism, without reference to allies, and with a failure to understand the longer term ramifications of the policy. | | | |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 11:45 - Dec 7 with 4180 views | lowhouseblue |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:40 - Dec 7 by HagbardCeline | Absolutely no different from any us president since jfk. Out of interest, have you heard jfks speeches on ending war and weapons manufacturing? Its almost surreal to listen to. |
that jfk speech is an internet myth - UNLESS you read the whole speech and place it all properly in context. youtube internet versions misrepresent what he said. it was a speech attacking communism. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 11:48 - Dec 7 with 4180 views | connorscontract |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:48 - Dec 7 by caught-in-limbo | The US didn't go softly softly in Libya or Iraq - in your mind are they examples of US foreign policy which have "worked"? |
But Obama did go "soft" on Iran, Iranian leadership then became the decisive cohesive factor in the push back of Daesh. Because Trump hates "soft" he has royally screwed up what was a decent Foreign Policy win fir the US, and a potential big player in stabilising the Middle East has now been left feeling used and betrayed. | | | |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 11:53 - Dec 7 with 4159 views | Guthrum |
What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:41 - Dec 7 by chicoazul | Declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel is not in consideration of an alliance with Israel? Most everything the US does abroad could be "dangerous". I get a bit sick of people talking about softly softly with the likes of NK when clearly it doesn't work and NK develops more and more weapons power. |
Softly softly has at least kept a lid on the situation, even resulted in talks and concessions in the past. What has Trump's "nasty" approach achieved? NK racing to develop and test weapons systems rather than holding them as bargaining chips, increased belligerent rhetoric, fear and uncertainty in the region, China's hand strengthened in exchange for nominal sanctions, that's what. And eventually the only options left will be climbdown or military action, with the likelihood of death and destruction. Which do you think Trump will prefer? | |
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