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What Trump's "America First" really means 09:18 - Dec 7 with 7714 viewsGuthrum

Everything, including US foreign policy, will be subordinated to playing to his domestic audience. Never mind if it stuffs up the rest of the world, or even the efforts of his own State Department, as long as it panders to the attitudes of his baying supporters at home.

Take the Jerusalem issue. Largely an empty gesture, liable to cause great trouble (there's a good chance people will die today during the protests), doesn't particularly serve American interests in the region, but pleases the millennialist lobby in the USA.

Or the spat with Theresa May. Completely pointless.

Nothing Trump says about international affairs (including North Korea, Iran, etc.) Is speaking outwards, to the world. It is all naerowly to polish (as he sees it) his domestic reputation.

Edit: Whoops, posted in wrong category.
[Post edited 7 Dec 2017 9:19]

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:20 - Dec 7 with 4443 viewsunbelievablue

Such a departure from the 'hegemony or bust' style of US FP of the past.

Le meilleur des mondes possibles
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:24 - Dec 7 with 4435 viewsBackToRussia

It's all an exercise in narcissism, imposture and buffoonery. Trump is just a void which everything circles around.

TWTD CP. Evans Out.
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:24 - Dec 7 with 4430 viewsGuthrum

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:20 - Dec 7 by unbelievablue

Such a departure from the 'hegemony or bust' style of US FP of the past.


At least with that, if you were a US ally, you could guarantee they would mostly be supporting your interests. Opponents knew what they were fighting against. Wars were not started by accident.

This is too random to be safe.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:26 - Dec 7 with 4425 viewsGuthrum

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:24 - Dec 7 by BackToRussia

It's all an exercise in narcissism, imposture and buffoonery. Trump is just a void which everything circles around.


More a black hole, having something very dense at its core.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:29 - Dec 7 with 4416 viewscaught-in-limbo

Trump is the pantomime villain in the panto production called "Western Values" broadcast by the mainstream media, directed by the CIA, and funded by the global bankers.

We are the audience.

Boooo! sssssssssssss! Get off!

#enjoytheshow

#toxic
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:33 - Dec 7 with 4402 viewschicoazul

I much preferred Obama's foreign policy of bombing women and children off the face of the earth with drones.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:40 - Dec 7 with 4391 viewsHagbardCeline

Absolutely no different from any us president since jfk.

Out of interest, have you heard jfks speeches on ending war and weapons manufacturing? Its almost surreal to listen to.
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:42 - Dec 7 with 4379 viewsconnorscontract

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:24 - Dec 7 by Guthrum

At least with that, if you were a US ally, you could guarantee they would mostly be supporting your interests. Opponents knew what they were fighting against. Wars were not started by accident.

This is too random to be safe.


I largely agree with you but would point to the Contra affair and the Gulf War as two bizarre foreign policy excursions which are fairly hard to read as anything other than over-meddling for the sake of who knows what in the Contra case and leading most of their Allies into war to restore national pride post-9/11 in the other. Or maybe both were to do with dodgy figures in the shadows making lots of money.

Reagan's foray into Grenada was also a little Trumpesque.
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:43 - Dec 7 with 4376 viewsDanTheMan

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:33 - Dec 7 by chicoazul

I much preferred Obama's foreign policy of bombing women and children off the face of the earth with drones.


Which Trump has continued to do despite criticising Obama for it.

We just don't hear about it as much.

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What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:56 - Dec 7 with 4342 viewsGuthrum

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:33 - Dec 7 by chicoazul

I much preferred Obama's foreign policy of bombing women and children off the face of the earth with drones.


You're missing my point. Which is that the sole driver of Trump's foreign policy is short-term domestic acclaim. There is no consideration of worldwide benefits, alliances or even if it works.

It's not entirely random, but it is dangerous. Trying to look tough on Korea or Iran could easily lead to conflict. Playing to the gallery on Israel causing trouble in the Middle East.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:01 - Dec 7 with 4332 viewsblue_oyster

Where US Foreign Policy was so much *better* before, eh? All the people pro-war, who all supported the 'Arab Spring', the Blairites who supported the Iraq intervention are now all in full voice against US Foreign Policy. I don't think I've seen greater hypocrisy than this.

Conventional wisdom is the enemy of thought.
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:04 - Dec 7 with 4332 viewsGuthrum

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:42 - Dec 7 by connorscontract

I largely agree with you but would point to the Contra affair and the Gulf War as two bizarre foreign policy excursions which are fairly hard to read as anything other than over-meddling for the sake of who knows what in the Contra case and leading most of their Allies into war to restore national pride post-9/11 in the other. Or maybe both were to do with dodgy figures in the shadows making lots of money.

Reagan's foray into Grenada was also a little Trumpesque.


Iran-Contra was an outworking of the Cold War fight against perceived Soviet influence. As was Grenada.

The 2003 invasion of Iraq was at least driven by an actual international situation, if fuelled by one man's ego. Trump has been attempting to upset a situation of detente with Iran and reduce it to hostility.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:35 - Dec 7 with 4290 viewsBackToRussia

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:26 - Dec 7 by Guthrum

More a black hole, having something very dense at its core.


Haha, dense, certainly!

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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:36 - Dec 7 with 4288 viewschicoazul

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:43 - Dec 7 by DanTheMan

Which Trump has continued to do despite criticising Obama for it.

We just don't hear about it as much.


Correct of course but it still makes me laugh to read threads like these.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:38 - Dec 7 with 4280 viewsBackToRussia

What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:36 - Dec 7 by chicoazul

Correct of course but it still makes me laugh to read threads like these.


*misread

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What Trump's on 10:40 - Dec 7 with 4271 viewscaught-in-limbo

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:33 - Dec 7 by chicoazul

I much preferred Obama's foreign policy of bombing women and children off the face of the earth with drones.


Republican or Democrat, it's pretty much the same foreign policy... bombing people into democracy or freedom from their leaders.

But we think it's worth it.


#toxic
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:41 - Dec 7 with 4275 viewschicoazul

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:56 - Dec 7 by Guthrum

You're missing my point. Which is that the sole driver of Trump's foreign policy is short-term domestic acclaim. There is no consideration of worldwide benefits, alliances or even if it works.

It's not entirely random, but it is dangerous. Trying to look tough on Korea or Iran could easily lead to conflict. Playing to the gallery on Israel causing trouble in the Middle East.


Declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel is not in consideration of an alliance with Israel?

Most everything the US does abroad could be "dangerous". I get a bit sick of people talking about softly softly with the likes of NK when clearly it doesn't work and NK develops more and more weapons power.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:47 - Dec 7 with 4246 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:42 - Dec 7 by connorscontract

I largely agree with you but would point to the Contra affair and the Gulf War as two bizarre foreign policy excursions which are fairly hard to read as anything other than over-meddling for the sake of who knows what in the Contra case and leading most of their Allies into war to restore national pride post-9/11 in the other. Or maybe both were to do with dodgy figures in the shadows making lots of money.

Reagan's foray into Grenada was also a little Trumpesque.


Not forgetting Nicaragua........viva Sandinista !

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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What Trump's on 10:48 - Dec 7 with 4245 viewschicoazul

What Trump's on 10:40 - Dec 7 by caught-in-limbo

Republican or Democrat, it's pretty much the same foreign policy... bombing people into democracy or freedom from their leaders.

But we think it's worth it.



Certainly worked out great so far hasnt it. And we wonder why so many of both their people and our own hate us so much.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:48 - Dec 7 with 4238 viewscaught-in-limbo

What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:41 - Dec 7 by chicoazul

Declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel is not in consideration of an alliance with Israel?

Most everything the US does abroad could be "dangerous". I get a bit sick of people talking about softly softly with the likes of NK when clearly it doesn't work and NK develops more and more weapons power.


The US didn't go softly softly in Libya or Iraq - in your mind are they examples of US foreign policy which have "worked"?

#toxic
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:50 - Dec 7 with 4238 viewschicoazul

What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:48 - Dec 7 by caught-in-limbo

The US didn't go softly softly in Libya or Iraq - in your mind are they examples of US foreign policy which have "worked"?


No.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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What Trump's "America First" really means on 11:41 - Dec 7 with 4194 viewsconnorscontract

What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:04 - Dec 7 by Guthrum

Iran-Contra was an outworking of the Cold War fight against perceived Soviet influence. As was Grenada.

The 2003 invasion of Iraq was at least driven by an actual international situation, if fuelled by one man's ego. Trump has been attempting to upset a situation of detente with Iran and reduce it to hostility.


Iran-Contra was also in a feedback loop with the "War on Drugs" policy pushed by Nancy Reagan, and created a whole protected class of hard-core high level cartels. Very bizarre muddled policy, bordering on the schizophrenic.

I'm using it as an example of unilateral Americanism, without reference to allies, and with a failure to understand the longer term ramifications of the policy.
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 11:45 - Dec 7 with 4180 viewslowhouseblue

What Trump's "America First" really means on 09:40 - Dec 7 by HagbardCeline

Absolutely no different from any us president since jfk.

Out of interest, have you heard jfks speeches on ending war and weapons manufacturing? Its almost surreal to listen to.


that jfk speech is an internet myth - UNLESS you read the whole speech and place it all properly in context. youtube internet versions misrepresent what he said. it was a speech attacking communism.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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What Trump's "America First" really means on 11:48 - Dec 7 with 4180 viewsconnorscontract

What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:48 - Dec 7 by caught-in-limbo

The US didn't go softly softly in Libya or Iraq - in your mind are they examples of US foreign policy which have "worked"?


But Obama did go "soft" on Iran, Iranian leadership then became the decisive cohesive factor in the push back of Daesh.

Because Trump hates "soft" he has royally screwed up what was a decent Foreign Policy win fir the US, and a potential big player in stabilising the Middle East has now been left feeling used and betrayed.
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What Trump's "America First" really means on 11:53 - Dec 7 with 4159 viewsGuthrum

What Trump's "America First" really means on 10:41 - Dec 7 by chicoazul

Declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel is not in consideration of an alliance with Israel?

Most everything the US does abroad could be "dangerous". I get a bit sick of people talking about softly softly with the likes of NK when clearly it doesn't work and NK develops more and more weapons power.


Softly softly has at least kept a lid on the situation, even resulted in talks and concessions in the past. What has Trump's "nasty" approach achieved? NK racing to develop and test weapons systems rather than holding them as bargaining chips, increased belligerent rhetoric, fear and uncertainty in the region, China's hand strengthened in exchange for nominal sanctions, that's what.

And eventually the only options left will be climbdown or military action, with the likelihood of death and destruction. Which do you think Trump will prefer?

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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