By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 08:35 - Dec 14 by Harry_Palmer
That's all very diplomatic and makes sense until you realise the following :
- The West bank is effectively under Marshall Law, with military checkpoints everywhere. - Palestinians are not allowed to travel and are effectively held in an open air prison. - Israel controls their water and power supplies - Israel has military, police, Nuclear weapons. Palestine has none of these. - Israel government supports settlers that steal Arab land.
I'm not suggesting the Palestinians are perfect, but this is about as one sided a 'conflict' as you could ever see.
Presumably you're unaware of the Palestinian Security Services (or the Palestinian Civil Police Force, which are part of it)?
0
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:06 - Dec 14 with 4002 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 08:52 - Dec 14 by Clapham_Junction
Presumably you're unaware of the Palestinian Security Services (or the Palestinian Civil Police Force, which are part of it)?
Oh come on, its a token gesture. They have no power whatsoever, Israel controls the whole area as i'm sure you well know. Are you seriously trying to dress this up as an even conflict between two nations?
0
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:24 - Dec 14 with 3973 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 08:27 - Dec 14 by Harry_Palmer
I didn't have any existing views on it to be honest. Until recently it was not something I paid huge attention to.
But thanks for the pointer, I don't know how i'd ever learn anything without helpful tips from wise people such as yourself.
Perhaps you could pm me some material from 'the other side' that I could get stuck into?
it shouldn't be about sides - historical conflicts rarely come down to right and wrong. but this polemic will be different form the polemics you have read:
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
0
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:38 - Dec 14 with 3960 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:24 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue
it shouldn't be about sides - historical conflicts rarely come down to right and wrong. but this polemic will be different form the polemics you have read:
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:38 - Dec 14 by caught-in-limbo
Great recommendation - I think that's all the reading anyone needs to do on the conflict. Thanks.
why are you posting that? what do you disagree with in that clip? do you think he should apologise for being a jew?
expressing views in the form of youtube videos like this leaves people trying to guess the point you are trying to make.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-1
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 10:05 - Dec 14 with 3925 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:24 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue
it shouldn't be about sides - historical conflicts rarely come down to right and wrong. but this polemic will be different form the polemics you have read:
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:24 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue
it shouldn't be about sides - historical conflicts rarely come down to right and wrong. but this polemic will be different form the polemics you have read:
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:54 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue
why are you posting that? what do you disagree with in that clip? do you think he should apologise for being a jew?
expressing views in the form of youtube videos like this leaves people trying to guess the point you are trying to make.
Well, I've posted it before and people had no problems understanding the meaning and significance of what he was saying.
He said that Jews should not deny their power when people say that they control the media and have too much influence. Now, I thought that "Jews controlling the media" and Jews having a level of influence over America which would make a Russian blush were tired antisemitic tropes.
The discussion, according to Dershowitz, should change.
How do you react when you hear non-Jews saying such things? Do you call antisemitism or do you say "the Jews have earned the right to influence public debate"?
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 10:25 - Dec 14 by caught-in-limbo
Well, I've posted it before and people had no problems understanding the meaning and significance of what he was saying.
He said that Jews should not deny their power when people say that they control the media and have too much influence. Now, I thought that "Jews controlling the media" and Jews having a level of influence over America which would make a Russian blush were tired antisemitic tropes.
The discussion, according to Dershowitz, should change.
How do you react when you hear non-Jews saying such things? Do you call antisemitism or do you say "the Jews have earned the right to influence public debate"?
[Post edited 14 Dec 2017 10:35]
your ability to misinterpret things is absolutely astonishing. everything he says is a response to people who say that jews are too powerful. he is NOT saying that jews control the media - he is responding to people who say that. he says that jews have earnt the right to 'influence public debate'. do you think they don't have that right? he says that jews shouldn't apologise for being jewish. do you disagree with that?
you are twisting his words in a way which makes it look as if you have an agenda here.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-2
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 10:46 - Dec 14 with 3863 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 10:41 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue
your ability to misinterpret things is absolutely astonishing. everything he says is a response to people who say that jews are too powerful. he is NOT saying that jews control the media - he is responding to people who say that. he says that jews have earnt the right to 'influence public debate'. do you think they don't have that right? he says that jews shouldn't apologise for being jewish. do you disagree with that?
you are twisting his words in a way which makes it look as if you have an agenda here.
Where have I said the things you accuse me of?
Surely, it is you who has twisted my words and it is you who has an agenda.
Go on. Where have I misinterpreted what he said?
EDIT:
"your ability to misinterpret things is absolutely astonishing"
your post claims that he said that "jews control the media". he did not say that.
you don't seem to get the rhetorical technique of setting up a proposition, using the device 'people say', which you then rebut. or the rhetorical device of turning round a proposition that you reject in order to say something positive. eg people say that the jews control the media, but the public influence we have we have earnt and we have a right to.'
back to my questions, he says that jews have earnt the right to 'influence public debate'. do you think they don't have that right? he says that jews shouldn't apologise for being jewish. do you disagree with that?
surely the answers to those questions are easy?
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-2
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 12:04 - Dec 14 with 3812 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 11:48 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue
your post claims that he said that "jews control the media". he did not say that.
you don't seem to get the rhetorical technique of setting up a proposition, using the device 'people say', which you then rebut. or the rhetorical device of turning round a proposition that you reject in order to say something positive. eg people say that the jews control the media, but the public influence we have we have earnt and we have a right to.'
back to my questions, he says that jews have earnt the right to 'influence public debate'. do you think they don't have that right? he says that jews shouldn't apologise for being jewish. do you disagree with that?
surely the answers to those questions are easy?
your post claims that he said that "jews control the media". he did not say that.
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 12:04 - Dec 14 by caught-in-limbo
your post claims that he said that "jews control the media". he did not say that.
WHERE?
"He said that Jews should not deny their power when people say that they control the media and have too much influence. Now, I thought that "Jews controlling the media" and Jews having a level of influence over America which would make a Russian blush were tired antisemitic tropes".
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 12:04 - Dec 14 by caught-in-limbo
your post claims that he said that "jews control the media". he did not say that.
WHERE?
quote: "He said that Jews should not deny their power when people say that they control the media and have too much influence. Now, I thought that "Jews controlling the media" and Jews having a level of influence over America which would make a Russian blush were tired antisemitic tropes. ... How do you react when you hear non-Jews saying such things? Do you call antisemitism ..."
you are clearly seeking to contrast what you think he (as a jew) said, with the reaction to a non-jew saying the same thing. you are saying that "jews controlling the media" is ok when he says it, but might be called as anti-Semitism when a non-jew says it. but he didn't say it.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-2
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 12:23 - Dec 14 with 3792 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 09:06 - Dec 14 by Harry_Palmer
Oh come on, its a token gesture. They have no power whatsoever, Israel controls the whole area as i'm sure you well know. Are you seriously trying to dress this up as an even conflict between two nations?
Anyway, as for who to read up on, I wouldn't recommend polemicists. Your best bet is someone who annoys people on both sides of the argument - try Benny Morris' The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2017 12:24]
0
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 12:24 - Dec 14 with 3780 views
Anyway, as for who to read up on, I wouldn't recommend polemicists. Your best bet is someone who annoys people on both sides of the argument - try Benny Morris' The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2017 12:24]
"Someone who annoys people on both sides" .... CIL then?
First of all, I've just had the pleasure of living there a year in Sydney. Managed to line my bank account quite nicely, the disposable income is a lot higher there and I'm hoping to go back in the future. Australia IS expensive as a tourist, however most people are on £20 + an hour over there ..... with weekly rent costing a day and a halfs wage tops. Go figure. They're certainly winning on that front.......
May I ask, have you ever been to Australia and what has made you come up with this point?
In regards to more racist,,,,,,, jesus. Ever been to Eastern Europe / parts of Africa / the middle East !?!
Australian's are far less racist than the UK for example and less PC. They say things that may shock people here, however they haven't been hit on the head with the PC brush. At least they publicly say what they think, as opposed to us lot who say one thing when in public and with certain people, and the complete opposite when they're at the pub and want to look 'ard infront of their mates.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2017 12:40]
0
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 14:30 - Dec 14 with 3718 views
Been here 5 and a half years I don't think Australians are any more or less racist than the UK.
I can't think of any of my friends over here who couldn't be described as liberal minded people, but I have met Australians who were casually racist, and some people whose views were quite unpleasant. Essentially the equivalent of the UK, but maybe with the caveat that any racist views I heard in the UK came predominantly from older generations.
There does seem to be a fair deal of worry here about Australia getting economically and culturally swallowed up by China at the moment, which is quite an interesting point when framed against the original taking of Aboriginal land.
The only dissenting voice I've heard here about gay marriage becoming legal was from our Moldovan-Israeli-Australian childcarer who told our 4yo son that same sex marriage wasn't 'real'.
1
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 14:38 - Dec 14 with 3708 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 12:07 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue
"He said that Jews should not deny their power when people say that they control the media and have too much influence. Now, I thought that "Jews controlling the media" and Jews having a level of influence over America which would make a Russian blush were tired antisemitic tropes".
Nope, I still haven't attributed those words to him or misunderstood them.
You are also guilty of misinterpreting what I actually wrote.
There's some truth in "you only hear what you want to hear".
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 19:26 - Dec 12 by Johnhoz
Serbia
Agreed, definitely Serbia. Anecdotal evidence but my British-Nigerian friend was booed at and spat at walking down the street over there. The monkey noises soon followed, which happened on three or four occasions.
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 12:10 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue
quote: "He said that Jews should not deny their power when people say that they control the media and have too much influence. Now, I thought that "Jews controlling the media" and Jews having a level of influence over America which would make a Russian blush were tired antisemitic tropes. ... How do you react when you hear non-Jews saying such things? Do you call antisemitism ..."
you are clearly seeking to contrast what you think he (as a jew) said, with the reaction to a non-jew saying the same thing. you are saying that "jews controlling the media" is ok when he says it, but might be called as anti-Semitism when a non-jew says it. but he didn't say it.
"you are clearly seeking to contrast what you think he (as a jew) said, with the reaction to a non-jew saying the same thing. you are saying that "jews controlling the media" is ok when he says it, but might be called as anti-Semitism when a non-jew says it. but he didn't say it."
I'm clearly not saying that at all. What I'm clearly pointing out is how the discussion is perhaps changing. That's why I wrote: "The discussion, according to Dershowitz, should change. "
I reinforced this point by asking you how you respond to the charges mentioned. Do you call racism - which is the normal response or do you do what Derschowitz suggests and counter with "the Jews have earned the right to influence public debate"?
you are twisting my words in a way which makes it look as if you have an agenda here.
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 17:03 - Dec 14 by caught-in-limbo
"you are clearly seeking to contrast what you think he (as a jew) said, with the reaction to a non-jew saying the same thing. you are saying that "jews controlling the media" is ok when he says it, but might be called as anti-Semitism when a non-jew says it. but he didn't say it."
I'm clearly not saying that at all. What I'm clearly pointing out is how the discussion is perhaps changing. That's why I wrote: "The discussion, according to Dershowitz, should change. "
I reinforced this point by asking you how you respond to the charges mentioned. Do you call racism - which is the normal response or do you do what Derschowitz suggests and counter with "the Jews have earned the right to influence public debate"?
you are twisting my words in a way which makes it look as if you have an agenda here.
"How do you react when you hear non-Jews saying such things? Do you call anti-Semitism?"
'such things' being the things you're implying dershowitz said. but of course he didn't say them - he was rhetorically challenging them.
i really do find your use of this youtube clip very odd. focusing on jewish power has a bad history.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-2
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 18:00 - Dec 14 with 3615 views
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 17:17 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue
"How do you react when you hear non-Jews saying such things? Do you call anti-Semitism?"
'such things' being the things you're implying dershowitz said. but of course he didn't say them - he was rhetorically challenging them.
i really do find your use of this youtube clip very odd. focusing on jewish power has a bad history.
No "such things" are the things which Dershowitz cites. He's citing what people say and he's telling his audience how to react to them. It's very clear - perhaps you should listen to it again until you realise that's what he's doing.
I'm not focusing on Jewish power. It's Dershowitz who mentions it. My interest is in how people deal with such language. My interest here is that he's offering an alternative which has been in play for a long time. I actually find his views concerning that particular point very interesting and I'm in two minds as to what I would do if I was Jewish and confronted with the same situation. I see positives in both responses but I know there are Jews who aren't comfortable with his views here.
There are other things he says in his talk which i don't like and don't agree with - especially at the end when he focuses on using Jewish "power" for peace. Like you, I don't like this focus on jewish power - I'm not sure what he really means, but I'm not going to focus on it.
Is there a more racist, backwards country than Australia? on 21:05 - Dec 13 by Harry_Palmer
Israel, a country that imprisons, tortures, and executes Arabs on a regular basis, a country that holds an entire people under a state of marshal law in an open air prison, a country that continually encourages new settlers to steal land and homes off Arabs ( illegally ), a country which arrests and imprisons children for throwing stones, a country which brainwashes children in school to hate Arabs.
Nope, not backwards at all.
Yep and they have lots of very powerful friends.
The Palestinians don't stand a chance.
Just look at the US embassy move to Jerusalem, forget Trump, not one senator voted against, not even Sanders.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
