| Theresa defeated.... 19:30 - Dec 13 with 40231 views | ElderGrizzly |
Whoops :)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/13/tory-brexit-rebels-inflict-majo
Theresa May has lost a Brexit vote in the Commons for the first time.
MPs voted to back the Dominic Grieve amendment by 309 votes to 305 - a majority of four.
The amendment will curb some of the powers the government is giving itself in the EU withdrawal bill. Specifically, it means that although clause 9 of the bill gives ministers powers to implement the Brexit withdrawal agreement by order, the amendment that has been passed means says they can only exercise these powers “subject to the prior enactment of a statute by parliament approving the final terms of withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union.”
Opposition MPs also claim the amendment gives parliament a “meaningful vote” on the withdrawal agreement. This is contested because ministers say parliament is already going to get a meaningful vote. But what it will mean is that ministers will not be able to use the powers in clause 9 to implement the EU withdrawal bill by order until the Commons has passed the bill allowing this. See
Around a dozen Tory MPs rebelled, according to Labour. [Post edited 13 Dec 2017 19:33]
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:12 - Dec 14 with 3147 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:00 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
I meant ignorant as in not knowing what they're really talking about given the sheer size and complexity of the issues involved. There are of course those who are even more ignorant because they are far too ready to believe bullsh¡t on top of that.
I'm sure you, like me and everyone else on this board, has a job, interests or knowledge we understand in detail. What do you think the chances are of someone on the outside knowing what is right or wrong in this area with only a very superficial knowledge? Then what about the people who only have a prejudiced, superficial view?
Ignorance is exactly the right word. |
So you are in favour of a technocratic government then.....your logic would mean we are all too ignorant to vote. [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 13:12]
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:12 - Dec 14 with 3145 views | Darth_Koont |
| Theresa defeated.... on 12:59 - Dec 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
In the long term when the EU and/or Euro implodes we will be ahead of the curve.
As stated before my preference is for an entirely new paradigm of 'development' along the lines of steady state economics with the environment /earth care at its core so a lot of what has gone before in this discussion is about chosing the least bad option for destroying our existence. The "growth model" needs killing off. |
You live in a fantasy world though.
We need a sustainable AND practical approach that also deals with the immediate reality. |  |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:14 - Dec 14 with 3140 views | Darth_Koont |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:12 - Dec 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So you are in favour of a technocratic government then.....your logic would mean we are all too ignorant to vote. [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 13:12]
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No, but we have to be better at calling out bullsh!t and dealing with facts. Not your forte either so I can see why you're worried. | |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:29 - Dec 14 with 3111 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 12:47 - Dec 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
He's waiting for Mr Koont to do the spade work gor him.....think the two Ronnies ! |
I've already replied, you prize plum. |  |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:35 - Dec 14 with 3096 views | m14_blue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 12:02 - Dec 14 by J2BLUE |
Think he's kidding himself. Far more likely the transition period will be extended by quite a bit or after another year of propaganda about how terrible Brexit is (and the classic 'you know we haven't left yet right?' about anything positive) we'll have another referendum where remain will win. |
Who is it that you think is spreading this 'propaganda'? |  | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:37 - Dec 14 with 3094 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:29 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
I've already replied, you prize plum. |
Well you got there in the end........for clarity you are the little one (Corbett)! Did big Ronnie send you some notes?
At least "prize plum" is an improvement on "thick racist". [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 13:39]
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:41 - Dec 14 with 3083 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:37 - Dec 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Well you got there in the end........for clarity you are the little one (Corbett)! Did big Ronnie send you some notes?
At least "prize plum" is an improvement on "thick racist". [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 13:39]
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Ha ha! No mate, I just looked at the tripe you post and posted the exact opposite. | |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:45 - Dec 14 with 3073 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:12 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
You live in a fantasy world though.
We need a sustainable AND practical approach that also deals with the immediate reality. |
Yeah.....good luck with that ! Care to expand on what that might be ? | |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:48 - Dec 14 with 3061 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:45 - Dec 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yeah.....good luck with that ! Care to expand on what that might be ? |
Your'e wasting your time mate. |  |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:49 - Dec 14 with 3063 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:14 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
No, but we have to be better at calling out bullsh!t and dealing with facts. Not your forte either so I can see why you're worried. |
Can you remind me what I'm "worried" about? | |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 13:58 - Dec 14 with 3030 views | StokieBlue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:14 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
No, but we have to be better at calling out bullsh!t and dealing with facts. Not your forte either so I can see why you're worried. |
Not sure if you still have me on ignore but I'll give it a pop.
You mean that for all parties, policies and subjects I hope?
Because it certainly wasn't applied to Labour's manifesto in the last election. In fact the IFS study which said it would destroy the economy and laden future generations with even more debt was largely ignored. When someone called it out they were shouted down.
And now the IFS studies are used to highlight how bad the Tories are doing (not something I disagree with BTW).
I just feel that this "calling out bullsh!t and dealing with facts" tends to be very subjective even now. I'm all for it if it's applied universally but I fear that's not what many want.
SB [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 14:00]
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| Theresa defeated.... on 14:01 - Dec 14 with 3014 views | No9 |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:12 - Dec 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So you are in favour of a technocratic government then.....your logic would mean we are all too ignorant to vote. [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 13:12]
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Are we too ignorant? I would suggest that when it comes to the intent of the right we are too ignorant to vote because the objectives are not spelled out and for good reason.
There is no doubt that the Leave group are using 'Leave' to move fuurther away from democratic government to a place where everythign we do is controlled by corporations.
The ideals are set out in the Chicago school and were follwoed by the tories in the 80's. They want to get back to that situation where corporations & banks get almost unlimited freedoms and powers. | | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:02 - Dec 14 with 3012 views | clive_baker |
| Theresa defeated.... on 13:56 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
She looks at about your level of wit and intellect, mate. |
Bit rich coming from you to be fair. You spout your lies and lazy stereotypes as fact and when asked to substantiate them you either do a disappearing act, returning only to peddle the classic "I don't sit on here all day, some of us have lives" routine, because you're simply not informed and too immature to hold your hands up, or you charge around TWTD down-arrowing anyone who has an opinion that differs from yours, regardless of the subject matter.
I eagerly await mine. |  |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 14:03 - Dec 14 with 3007 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:02 - Dec 14 by clive_baker |
Bit rich coming from you to be fair. You spout your lies and lazy stereotypes as fact and when asked to substantiate them you either do a disappearing act, returning only to peddle the classic "I don't sit on here all day, some of us have lives" routine, because you're simply not informed and too immature to hold your hands up, or you charge around TWTD down-arrowing anyone who has an opinion that differs from yours, regardless of the subject matter.
I eagerly await mine. |
Blub. | |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 14:03 - Dec 14 with 3005 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:01 - Dec 14 by No9 |
Are we too ignorant? I would suggest that when it comes to the intent of the right we are too ignorant to vote because the objectives are not spelled out and for good reason.
There is no doubt that the Leave group are using 'Leave' to move fuurther away from democratic government to a place where everythign we do is controlled by corporations.
The ideals are set out in the Chicago school and were follwoed by the tories in the 80's. They want to get back to that situation where corporations & banks get almost unlimited freedoms and powers. |
".......get back to........" ? | |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 14:04 - Dec 14 with 3002 views | StokieBlue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:01 - Dec 14 by No9 |
Are we too ignorant? I would suggest that when it comes to the intent of the right we are too ignorant to vote because the objectives are not spelled out and for good reason.
There is no doubt that the Leave group are using 'Leave' to move fuurther away from democratic government to a place where everythign we do is controlled by corporations.
The ideals are set out in the Chicago school and were follwoed by the tories in the 80's. They want to get back to that situation where corporations & banks get almost unlimited freedoms and powers. |
"There is no doubt that the Leave group are using 'Leave' to move fuurther away from democratic government to a place where everythign we do is controlled by corporations."
You're going to have to justify that with at least some evidence because I think there is some doubt. To say there is "no doubt" is extreme.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 14:04 - Dec 14 with 3000 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:03 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
Blub. |
I think he's called it spot on tbh. | |
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| Theresa defeated.... on 14:05 - Dec 14 with 2993 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:03 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
Blub. |
There you go again......! (see previous gif)
Edit......mate. [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 14:06]
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| Theresa defeated.... on 14:10 - Dec 14 with 2975 views | No9 |
| Theresa defeated.... on 12:59 - Dec 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
In the long term when the EU and/or Euro implodes we will be ahead of the curve.
As stated before my preference is for an entirely new paradigm of 'development' along the lines of steady state economics with the environment /earth care at its core so a lot of what has gone before in this discussion is about chosing the least bad option for destroying our existence. The "growth model" needs killing off. |
'In the long term when the EU and/or Euro implodes we will be ahead of the curve. "
That is a long way from reality isn't it?
The Euro is now the reserve oil currency and, for some countries who refuse to deal in the USD the prime currency.
As the UK now relyies very heavily on the EU for the UK to function adequately and needs considerable components to make anything at all, the UK has a very long way to go to get level with the EU let alone get ahead.
On current government policies the UK won't get ahead of the EU | | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:15 - Dec 14 with 2958 views | No9 |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:04 - Dec 14 by StokieBlue |
"There is no doubt that the Leave group are using 'Leave' to move fuurther away from democratic government to a place where everythign we do is controlled by corporations."
You're going to have to justify that with at least some evidence because I think there is some doubt. To say there is "no doubt" is extreme.
SB |
We have seen corporations controlling the UK for some time now.
& some of those corporations are nationalised in another country
in addition, I am watching how the right want to move to globalisation
I'm watching what Liam Fox is doing.
I'm watching how Rees-Moggs corporatoin is acting ahead of and independent to government while calling the shots in parliament.
Similarly John Redwood.
And, corproations are driving the tories via funding every day in the media Brexit is about what corporations want not the electorate. | | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:16 - Dec 14 with 2954 views | StokieBlue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 14:15 - Dec 14 by No9 |
We have seen corporations controlling the UK for some time now.
& some of those corporations are nationalised in another country
in addition, I am watching how the right want to move to globalisation
I'm watching what Liam Fox is doing.
I'm watching how Rees-Moggs corporatoin is acting ahead of and independent to government while calling the shots in parliament.
Similarly John Redwood.
And, corproations are driving the tories via funding every day in the media Brexit is about what corporations want not the electorate. |
Can you give an example of how a nationalised corporation (pretty sure that's an oxymoron but we will move on) from another country is controlling the UK?
SB [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 14:17]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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