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Theresa defeated.... 19:30 - Dec 13 with 40062 viewsElderGrizzly

Whoops :)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/13/tory-brexit-rebels-inflict-majo

Theresa May has lost a Brexit vote in the Commons for the first time.

MPs voted to back the Dominic Grieve amendment by 309 votes to 305 - a majority of four.
The amendment will curb some of the powers the government is giving itself in the EU withdrawal bill. Specifically, it means that although clause 9 of the bill gives ministers powers to implement the Brexit withdrawal agreement by order, the amendment that has been passed means says they can only exercise these powers “subject to the prior enactment of a statute by parliament approving the final terms of withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union.”

Opposition MPs also claim the amendment gives parliament a “meaningful vote” on the withdrawal agreement. This is contested because ministers say parliament is already going to get a meaningful vote. But what it will mean is that ministers will not be able to use the powers in clause 9 to implement the EU withdrawal bill by order until the Commons has passed the bill allowing this. See

Around a dozen Tory MPs rebelled, according to Labour.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2017 19:33]
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Theresa defeated.... on 12:15 - Dec 15 with 1380 viewsGlasgowBlue

Theresa defeated.... on 12:11 - Dec 15 by No9

You've said so on a number of occasions
& this shows the tory claims to be just more lies.


No I haven't. And neither has any other Brexiteer. We have said that the UK cannot sign bilateral trade deals whilst being a member of the EU and the single market. Do you accept this to be true? This is exactly the type of lies and propaganda that J2 was talking about. If you are going to debate, and I know that's hard for you to do, then at least do so from a position of honesty or you can go on the same list as herbiebore.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2017 12:16]

Iron Lion Zion
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Theresa defeated.... on 12:21 - Dec 15 with 1359 viewsNo9

Theresa defeated.... on 12:15 - Dec 15 by GlasgowBlue

No I haven't. And neither has any other Brexiteer. We have said that the UK cannot sign bilateral trade deals whilst being a member of the EU and the single market. Do you accept this to be true? This is exactly the type of lies and propaganda that J2 was talking about. If you are going to debate, and I know that's hard for you to do, then at least do so from a position of honesty or you can go on the same list as herbiebore.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2017 12:16]


You od all people have no right to tell anyone to be honest.
You are an habitual poster of disnformation and post your ideals as fact.
You are a specialist in crocodile tears
Having traded in the EU for 40 odd years I understand EU law, something you have never uderstood nor have tried to understand.
You can't debate, you start to insult people far too soon & you are guilty of everything you accuse others of being guilty of.
I don't believe you have businesses either.
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Theresa defeated.... on 12:22 - Dec 15 with 1360 viewsNewcyBlue

Theresa defeated.... on 12:10 - Dec 15 by No9

Thanks for that.
But they now export them don't they?
Isn't the 'S' class exported?


They certainly build 2 variants of the S Class there, they have done since 2013/2014.

As for exports I haven’t seen anything about them exporting. If they do, it predates all this brexit stuff.

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Theresa defeated.... on 12:22 - Dec 15 with 1357 viewsNo9

Theresa defeated.... on 12:15 - Dec 15 by GlasgowBlue

No I haven't. And neither has any other Brexiteer. We have said that the UK cannot sign bilateral trade deals whilst being a member of the EU and the single market. Do you accept this to be true? This is exactly the type of lies and propaganda that J2 was talking about. If you are going to debate, and I know that's hard for you to do, then at least do so from a position of honesty or you can go on the same list as herbiebore.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2017 12:16]


My wife has just pulled up outside, I shall be out until at least 18.00
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Theresa defeated.... on 12:24 - Dec 15 with 1353 viewsNo9

Theresa defeated.... on 12:22 - Dec 15 by NewcyBlue

They certainly build 2 variants of the S Class there, they have done since 2013/2014.

As for exports I haven’t seen anything about them exporting. If they do, it predates all this brexit stuff.


I understand the first 'S' class cars exported went to India circa 2014
But that is from 3rd party info.
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Theresa defeated.... on 12:24 - Dec 15 with 1343 viewsGlasgowBlue

Theresa defeated.... on 12:22 - Dec 15 by No9

My wife has just pulled up outside, I shall be out until at least 18.00


Swervetastic. Straight out of Herbiebore's book.

Iron Lion Zion
Poll: Our best central defensive partnership?
Blog: [Blog] For the Sake of My Football Club, Please Go

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Theresa defeated.... on 13:46 - Dec 15 with 1322 viewslongtimefan

Theresa defeated.... on 12:21 - Dec 15 by No9

You od all people have no right to tell anyone to be honest.
You are an habitual poster of disnformation and post your ideals as fact.
You are a specialist in crocodile tears
Having traded in the EU for 40 odd years I understand EU law, something you have never uderstood nor have tried to understand.
You can't debate, you start to insult people far too soon & you are guilty of everything you accuse others of being guilty of.
I don't believe you have businesses either.


Crikey ..... Mr Pot meet the Black Kettle
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Theresa defeated.... on 16:53 - Dec 15 with 1290 viewspowinswitch

Theresa defeated.... on 05:50 - Dec 15 by powinswitch

I don’t read a newspaper. My reply is part of a conversation within the thread with Herbivore, in which I have tried to engage with him, after he used the phrase ‘thick racists’. He claims it was meant in jest. Whilst accepting that may be how he meant it, I wanted to engage in proper debate, on what is a hugely divisive subject. I think Herbivore and I have managed that.

After the post that you have pulled up as being dreadful, Herbivore replied, and in my repl6 to his post I wrote; ‘Anyway you make some fair comments. I am not an expert on benefits, having never claimed, and brought up two children who have never claimed. However I find it astonishing that we have so many people out of work and claiming benefits, who are able t9 work (I realise there are a number who cannot for various reasons),yet need a substantial number of immigrants to do certain jobs. Whilst being* stereotypical, many farm workers, care workers, NHS staff, cafe baristas etc are from a foreign land. Yet we have so many of our own who claim benefits. I do understand that no system would be perfect, but ours does not appear fit for purpose’.

I have described in my initial post on page 1 that my widowed mother received benefits whilst bringing up 3children in the 70s following my father’s death. I even say that ‘ I am extremely grateful and have personal experience of its power’ about the welfare system. My 54 year old cousin has learning difficulties, being blind, deaf and having cognitive issues since birth. I look after her finances, and issues surrounding her care. She has never and never will work, and receives £360 ( well thereabouts) per month to live on.

The work capability assessment was designed during Blair’s adm8nistration, and was immediately a cause for concern. I think it’s premise is sound, but it’s delivery leaves a lot to be desired. I don’t doubt it causes a lot of stress to those who will face it. Probably mostly on those who need it most. My cousin for instance worries because she does not understand the questions, and therefore worries that when she answers she will cock it up and lose her money.

I am content for there to be a robust, regular review system to ensure that claimants are correctly receiving the allowance, although I am uncomfortable with this being outsourced to a private company. There are other concerns as well, and these should be addressed. But I know 2 people who were on this allowance, who are now in work, who always could work, but knew they would be found out. Not many I know, but I don’t know many claimants.

Herbivore made an excellent point about the fact that those not working may be in one area of the country, while the work is in another. I take that on board, and accept that will be a part of the issue. But just to use the farm workers and care workers as examples. Why have we needed so many immigrants to do this work in recent years. Who did it before they did. Why the change.

I used to be in the army - for 30+ years. You would be shocked if you knew how many soldiers were from our commonwealth countries. This used to be a job for the thick, often uneducated lad who fancied a bit of adventure or who could do nothing else. Now they won’t join up. Herbivore highlights how youngsters now have high expectations, which is a fair point. I would suggest that people now bandy words like austerity round so much, that the meaning of austere has been lost. Those living on the streets in Ipswich tonight have it austere. I have seen austere up close in Bosnia, in Afghanistan, and parts of Africa and Asia. Not many who will go to bed tonight in a house in UK will have it austere. The problem is that we are soft.

One of the soldiers who worked for me was a early 20s Black South African who spoke 9languages. He asked me why the British paid people to not work ( our benefits system), and why we put our old relatives away when they could not look after themselves (our care system). I discussed it with my other commonwealth soldiers. They think we have fooked it up big time, although they look after the dispossessed, the weak, the vulnerable. We don’t, we pay them t9 not work, or put them in homes. And then forget them.

Ive rambled on for too long, but have more to contribute. But I need to walk my dog. And then go t9 work. I realise I am lucky to have a job, and am grateful for what it brings me. So are the millions of immigrants who have made them home and lives here. But we cannot go on forever welcoming uncontrolled numbers to do our sh1t jobs. When this generation of immigrants have done it who will do it then. Because i rather suspect their kids will be the ones who do well at school, and will have the better jobs. The answer will be to bring in more immigrants. Sooner or later the infrastructure will collapse.


Jeera - did you see this reply? You haven't acknowledged it, so I was wondering if it was dreadful. I realise you may not have seen it yet. We all come on here at different times of the day.
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Theresa defeated.... on 19:30 - Dec 15 with 1259 viewsbluejacko

Theresa defeated.... on 12:21 - Dec 15 by No9

You od all people have no right to tell anyone to be honest.
You are an habitual poster of disnformation and post your ideals as fact.
You are a specialist in crocodile tears
Having traded in the EU for 40 odd years I understand EU law, something you have never uderstood nor have tried to understand.
You can't debate, you start to insult people far too soon & you are guilty of everything you accuse others of being guilty of.
I don't believe you have businesses either.


LOL can you play any other instruments other than your trumpet?
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