| Net neutrality scrapped in the US 22:49 - Dec 14 with 18182 views | StokieBlue |
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/dec/14/net-neutrality-fcc-rules-open
Over time that means that ISP's would be able to throttle things like Netflix in order to make their own streaming alternatives seem better as they wouldn't be throttled. They could also do things to Amazon, Facebook, Google etc or implement a many tiered internet where you only get the fastest speeds depending on criteria and cost.
I can only see it going the way of companies like Google building their own infrastructure and telling the ISP's to sod off. It's not like they can't afford it.
SB [Post edited 14 Dec 2017 22:49]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:52 - Dec 16 with 4611 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 08:56 - Dec 16 by Burwell_Blue |
Not in my opinion, no.
You need to have fibre to all homes, street cabinets, local exchanges, large data centres, peering with other existing Tier 1 ISPs (are they going to let you connect directly to them if you are a competitor?)
Then you need to do this all over the world. Not a chance. The existing infrastructure and Tier1 isps are here to stay. There won’t be any others coming along. |
Thats what I thought. |  | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 12:50 - Jan 1 with 4533 views | StokieBlue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 08:56 - Dec 16 by Burwell_Blue |
Not in my opinion, no.
You need to have fibre to all homes, street cabinets, local exchanges, large data centres, peering with other existing Tier 1 ISPs (are they going to let you connect directly to them if you are a competitor?)
Then you need to do this all over the world. Not a chance. The existing infrastructure and Tier1 isps are here to stay. There won’t be any others coming along. |
"The existing infrastructure and Tier1 isps are here to stay. There won’t be any others coming along."
I know you work for an ISP but that's quite a sweeping statement. Musk for one doesn't seem to agree with you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_satellite_constellation
That was essentially my point, the ISPs are going to force the hand of wealthy and motivated companies which in the longer term wouldn't seem a good business model.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 14:02 - Jan 1 with 4500 views | tcblue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 12:50 - Jan 1 by StokieBlue |
"The existing infrastructure and Tier1 isps are here to stay. There won’t be any others coming along."
I know you work for an ISP but that's quite a sweeping statement. Musk for one doesn't seem to agree with you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_satellite_constellation
That was essentially my point, the ISPs are going to force the hand of wealthy and motivated companies which in the longer term wouldn't seem a good business model.
SB |
Yep, presuming that the internet will be forever delivered by its current infrastructure means is a bit short sighted.
I'm still bewildered that someone working for an ISP thinks that net neutrality repeal is anything other than a terrible idea. |  | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 14:58 - Jan 1 with 4479 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 14:02 - Jan 1 by tcblue |
Yep, presuming that the internet will be forever delivered by its current infrastructure means is a bit short sighted.
I'm still bewildered that someone working for an ISP thinks that net neutrality repeal is anything other than a terrible idea. |
My employers have invested billions of dollars to roll out their worldwide network. Now they are told that they cannot do what they want with their network?
Their main role is to provide as much return to the shareholders as they can, so making the heavy bandwidth users (Netflix, You Tube et al) pay extra seems like perfect business sense to me. [Post edited 1 Jan 2018 15:01]
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| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 16:53 - Jan 1 with 4449 views | No9 |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 08:56 - Dec 16 by Burwell_Blue |
Not in my opinion, no.
You need to have fibre to all homes, street cabinets, local exchanges, large data centres, peering with other existing Tier 1 ISPs (are they going to let you connect directly to them if you are a competitor?)
Then you need to do this all over the world. Not a chance. The existing infrastructure and Tier1 isps are here to stay. There won’t be any others coming along. |
Weren't the experimental internet connections to the houses in Milton Keynes- in the 60's / 70's designated as the way forward until it got kicked into touch?
My recollection is that P.O. telephones were very advanced with fibre until 'privatisation' got in the way.
Then their dealing had to go to the commercial sector only -which is where I first got involved with what they had to offer | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 18:38 - Jan 1 with 4420 views | tcblue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 14:58 - Jan 1 by Burwell_Blue |
My employers have invested billions of dollars to roll out their worldwide network. Now they are told that they cannot do what they want with their network?
Their main role is to provide as much return to the shareholders as they can, so making the heavy bandwidth users (Netflix, You Tube et al) pay extra seems like perfect business sense to me. [Post edited 1 Jan 2018 15:01]
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This is quite the hot take. So, you expect the content providers to pay for the entire journey that their customers take in getting to their content? How would that even work?
There's nothing in net neutrality legislation which would have prevented your employers to block these heavy bandwidth users so that your customers couldn't access them.
Who do you work for? | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 19:58 - Jan 1 with 4400 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 18:38 - Jan 1 by tcblue |
This is quite the hot take. So, you expect the content providers to pay for the entire journey that their customers take in getting to their content? How would that even work?
There's nothing in net neutrality legislation which would have prevented your employers to block these heavy bandwidth users so that your customers couldn't access them.
Who do you work for? |
They don’t have to pay if they don’t want to. Of course, then they go out of business. Their call.
Verizon | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 06:18 - Jan 2 with 4380 views | tcblue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 19:58 - Jan 1 by Burwell_Blue |
They don’t have to pay if they don’t want to. Of course, then they go out of business. Their call.
Verizon |
Well, Verizon didn't build the infrastructure, though, did they? They're a VNO, so they effectively lease the infrastructure from the government. With that in mind, isn't it fair enough that the owners of the infrastructure have a say in how it's used?
I think the VNOs need the services more than the services need the VNOs. New VNOs could pop up easy enough, way harder to build a challenger for Netflix. | | | |
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| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 09:57 - Jan 2 with 4363 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 06:18 - Jan 2 by tcblue |
Well, Verizon didn't build the infrastructure, though, did they? They're a VNO, so they effectively lease the infrastructure from the government. With that in mind, isn't it fair enough that the owners of the infrastructure have a say in how it's used?
I think the VNOs need the services more than the services need the VNOs. New VNOs could pop up easy enough, way harder to build a challenger for Netflix. |
They didn’t install their equipment in Datacenters all over London, lay fibre for FiOS all over New storm you mean? | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 09:59 - Jan 2 with 4359 views | StokieBlue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 09:57 - Jan 2 by Burwell_Blue |
They didn’t install their equipment in Datacenters all over London, lay fibre for FiOS all over New storm you mean? |
You ignored my post yesterday on SpaceX new infrastructure plans and I asked if you stuck by your statement that no new ISPs or infrastructure would be coming along.
Samsung also have similar plans I believe but are much further behind than SpaceX.
Did you have any thoughts? Do you stand by your statement?
"The existing infrastructure and Tier1 isps are here to stay. There won’t be any others coming along."
SB [Post edited 2 Jan 2018 10:00]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:01 - Jan 2 with 4357 views | tcblue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 09:57 - Jan 2 by Burwell_Blue |
They didn’t install their equipment in Datacenters all over London, lay fibre for FiOS all over New storm you mean? |
That's for use by your customers though. Much the same as Netflix have done for themselves.
Sounds like the issue you have is with how your customers use the network, which is, and always has been, directly in the control of the companies operating, both in terms of charging structures and restrictions for heavy bandwidth use. | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:49 - Jan 2 with 4341 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 09:59 - Jan 2 by StokieBlue |
You ignored my post yesterday on SpaceX new infrastructure plans and I asked if you stuck by your statement that no new ISPs or infrastructure would be coming along.
Samsung also have similar plans I believe but are much further behind than SpaceX.
Did you have any thoughts? Do you stand by your statement?
"The existing infrastructure and Tier1 isps are here to stay. There won’t be any others coming along."
SB [Post edited 2 Jan 2018 10:00]
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Would take a lot for people to start installing equipment in their homes to pick up a sat connextion and the ones we already have are poor and very expensive. | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:51 - Jan 2 with 4338 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:01 - Jan 2 by tcblue |
That's for use by your customers though. Much the same as Netflix have done for themselves.
Sounds like the issue you have is with how your customers use the network, which is, and always has been, directly in the control of the companies operating, both in terms of charging structures and restrictions for heavy bandwidth use. |
“For use by our customers” - exactly.
And if they are heavy users of say Netflix and this impacts on other users of shared equipment? Or increase the peering costs with other providers to unsustainable levels, what must we do, suck up the your cost ourselves or pass it to the source of the traffic to manage? | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:55 - Jan 2 with 4336 views | tcblue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:51 - Jan 2 by Burwell_Blue |
“For use by our customers” - exactly.
And if they are heavy users of say Netflix and this impacts on other users of shared equipment? Or increase the peering costs with other providers to unsustainable levels, what must we do, suck up the your cost ourselves or pass it to the source of the traffic to manage? |
You suck it up yourselves or pass it on to your customers, much like Netflix does, as it only affects the infrastructure you put in EXCLUSIVELY to service your customers. | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:56 - Jan 2 with 4336 views | StokieBlue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:49 - Jan 2 by Burwell_Blue |
Would take a lot for people to start installing equipment in their homes to pick up a sat connextion and the ones we already have are poor and very expensive. |
Why would SpaceX spend the money to build and launch 4000+ satellites if they didn't think it was feasible?
This is my point, the position you are taking would seem to make it worthwhile for rich companies with a vested interest to take on your existing infrastructure using new ideas and architecture. I just found your total broad dismissal quite puzzling.
As for the equipment, don't you provide the equipment to your customers? Looks like it won't be a particularly hard setup:
"The system will not compete with Iridium satellite constellation, which is designed to link directly to handsets. Instead, it will be linked to flat user terminals the size of a pizza box, which will have phased array antennas and track the satellites. The terminals can be mounted anywhere, as long as they can see the sky."
Guess time will tell.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 11:23 - Jan 2 with 4323 views | tcblue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:56 - Jan 2 by StokieBlue |
Why would SpaceX spend the money to build and launch 4000+ satellites if they didn't think it was feasible?
This is my point, the position you are taking would seem to make it worthwhile for rich companies with a vested interest to take on your existing infrastructure using new ideas and architecture. I just found your total broad dismissal quite puzzling.
As for the equipment, don't you provide the equipment to your customers? Looks like it won't be a particularly hard setup:
"The system will not compete with Iridium satellite constellation, which is designed to link directly to handsets. Instead, it will be linked to flat user terminals the size of a pizza box, which will have phased array antennas and track the satellites. The terminals can be mounted anywhere, as long as they can see the sky."
Guess time will tell.
SB |
I would think that the future is clearly no customer equipment as whatever replaces or significantly improves WiFi means communal access across the world and the requirement to hop onto local hotspots becomes a thing of the past, as traditional access devices and cabling requirements continue to become things of the past.
Doesn't take much of a 'futurologist' to think like that, which I'm sure is what Elon is on about. | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 12:05 - Jan 2 with 4310 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 10:55 - Jan 2 by tcblue |
You suck it up yourselves or pass it on to your customers, much like Netflix does, as it only affects the infrastructure you put in EXCLUSIVELY to service your customers. |
Tier1 ISP provide transit for other larger enterprise as well as carrying traffic for smaller ISPs also don’t forget. | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 11:28 - Feb 23 with 3904 views | StokieBlue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 08:56 - Dec 16 by Burwell_Blue |
Not in my opinion, no.
You need to have fibre to all homes, street cabinets, local exchanges, large data centres, peering with other existing Tier 1 ISPs (are they going to let you connect directly to them if you are a competitor?)
Then you need to do this all over the world. Not a chance. The existing infrastructure and Tier1 isps are here to stay. There won’t be any others coming along. |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43160073
Are you still standing by your assertion that Tier 1 ISPs are here to stay and that "no others will be coming along"? You were totally dismissive that anyone could challenge the ISP's and thus they could do as they liked with regards to charging.
It's not just SpaceX looking at alternative forms of infrastructure, companies like Google are also doing the same.
Not saying it will be an overnight change but to totally dismiss innovation and competition and price accordingly has been the undoing of large industries before.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 12:23 - Feb 23 with 3877 views | tcblue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 11:28 - Feb 23 by StokieBlue |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43160073
Are you still standing by your assertion that Tier 1 ISPs are here to stay and that "no others will be coming along"? You were totally dismissive that anyone could challenge the ISP's and thus they could do as they liked with regards to charging.
It's not just SpaceX looking at alternative forms of infrastructure, companies like Google are also doing the same.
Not saying it will be an overnight change but to totally dismiss innovation and competition and price accordingly has been the undoing of large industries before.
SB |
The only way that this news could be better is if the rocket which went up also blasted OpenReach into a decaying orbit around the sun.
Seriously, the incompetent stranglehold they have on this country is bewildering | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 12:58 - Feb 23 with 3865 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 11:28 - Feb 23 by StokieBlue |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43160073
Are you still standing by your assertion that Tier 1 ISPs are here to stay and that "no others will be coming along"? You were totally dismissive that anyone could challenge the ISP's and thus they could do as they liked with regards to charging.
It's not just SpaceX looking at alternative forms of infrastructure, companies like Google are also doing the same.
Not saying it will be an overnight change but to totally dismiss innovation and competition and price accordingly has been the undoing of large industries before.
SB |
Yes.
To run Sat broadband you will need hardware on your house and the company in question will need to implement their own infrastructure and provide links through London presumably to Virgin Media, Vodafone or BT. - That is some big costs that will need to be recouped.
Might be fine for Bill the farmer who really is in the middle of nowhere or an African village but I dont think the average user will put up with the increase in latency between their 200Mb VM connection costing them £30 and the cost of the new system which beams their porn into space. | | | |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 13:33 - Feb 23 with 3848 views | StokieBlue |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 12:58 - Feb 23 by Burwell_Blue |
Yes.
To run Sat broadband you will need hardware on your house and the company in question will need to implement their own infrastructure and provide links through London presumably to Virgin Media, Vodafone or BT. - That is some big costs that will need to be recouped.
Might be fine for Bill the farmer who really is in the middle of nowhere or an African village but I dont think the average user will put up with the increase in latency between their 200Mb VM connection costing them £30 and the cost of the new system which beams their porn into space. |
We will see.
Give it 10-15 years and see if you're so confident that the ISPs can charge whatever they like and everyone else can just accept it.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 07:41 - Feb 24 with 3804 views | BorisOrTrevor |
| Net neutrality scrapped in the US on 08:21 - Dec 15 by StokieBlue |
That's outrageous fake news.
Obama bought in the legislation and Trump then added a new chairman who scrapped it.
Outright lying.
SB [Post edited 15 Dec 2017 8:22]
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Excellent post. |  |
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