| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? 12:23 - Jan 7 with 3344 views | Darth_Koont |
If this board is a cross-section of the fans, there seems to be a range of opinions over whether the main problem is Mick, Evans or as a duo. But without getting into the specifics of that, what's the model a club like ours should follow?
With an understanding of what we want to do we can then say what we need from an owner or a manager in the future. Of course, I'm not saying we should just look at Huddersfield and say do what they did (why not Bournemouth as champions if we can choose at leisure?) but based on an approach that can be set out beforehand.
For me, I'd have much of what we now have in place:
— Strong academy for the division, hopefully producing some gems but supplying squad numbers at the very least
— Team with youth on its side that can develop together to give the manager time
— Sustainable wage structure to give the manager time
The differences from today would be:
— Scalable investment to build momentum and strengthen a promotion challenge over a couple of seasons
— A third role between the owner and first team coach. Call it a Director of Football or even have someone as a part-time advisor but I don't think a manager nowadays should have sole responsibility for trying to balance our short-, medium- and long-term footballing policy. Far too many criteria for one person to be judged on and a dangerous risk. With such a person, we could have avoided the sticky mess we got into by the end of Jewell's tenure where most of the squad development process needed to be re-started from scratch. Mick's avoided that it seems but I still think it's a good idea to give managers more of a focus on the next game and the campaign itself..By all means the manager can be involved and brought into final decisions but have someone else wrestling with these thoughts until it gets to that stage.
— Trend analysis of some description. Again this isn't about getting advice from different sources as we often hear that Evans does that but actually having someone who takes responsibility for this so others can get on with their main jobs. Potentially this could still be the DoF but in any case someone who takes responsibility for collecting and presenting the insights on and off the pitch where the club can find those extra percentages. There's no doubt the margins in the Championship are among the tightest in world football so being ahead of the curve seems to be even more important than it is for clubs who are fighting for Champions League places. After all, they can just go out and buy the perfect solution.
In the likely absence of us laying out our ambitions and plans in any great detail, showing internally and externally that we are committed to certain focus areas by making someone responsible for them seems like a sensible way forward for both the fans and the club.
Apologies for the ramble. But hopefully you get the sense of what I'm trying to say. |  |
| |  |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 12:26 - Jan 7 with 3324 views | BlueBadger |
Makes sense me. I'd love to see a proper reform of club structure following Mick's departure(which will presumably be at the end of the season, barring major catastrophes of Keane/Jewell-esque nature), but I honestly can't see Evans going for it. Keane aside, none of his appointments have been particularly ambitious or forward looking. |  |
| |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 12:32 - Jan 7 with 3306 views | Darth_Koont |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 12:26 - Jan 7 by BlueBadger |
Makes sense me. I'd love to see a proper reform of club structure following Mick's departure(which will presumably be at the end of the season, barring major catastrophes of Keane/Jewell-esque nature), but I honestly can't see Evans going for it. Keane aside, none of his appointments have been particularly ambitious or forward looking. |
I think the difficulty comes that if you need someone to cover the wide range of what a football manager can do, then you're going to lean towards someone who's seen it all, done it all and bought every T-shirt.
We can certainly open up the list of potential candidates and clarify to them what we want if they have a more limited responsibility and more defined focus. | |
| |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 12:43 - Jan 7 with 3285 views | tractorboy1978 |
I think the specification you've outlined is right. The model we are basically looking to follow is the Sheepshanks/Burley model - academy, invest in players from the lower leagues/young players looking to drop down from Prem and work their way back up. You can argue we have done that with Webster and Ward and MM did well with Mings too, however, it's clearly not something we have fully committed to with us preferring to loan in certain areas than buy. We need to be willing to pay more if we see value in a player to develop - not huge fees but more than we are willing to currently. |  | | |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 13:43 - Jan 7 with 3246 views | Guthrum |
An interesting comparison is with motor racing, where teams employ a host of tactical and technical analysts to wring every possible advantage out of their car and driver - even in real time during a race.
Likewise with Rugby, there are coaches and analysts feeding info to the manager.
In football there's just one bloke and his assistant, down at pitch level, yelling into the crowd noise and waving his arms. Then that same bloke has to find time to sit down, watch videos and take notes for future tactics and training. |  |
| |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 13:55 - Jan 7 with 3235 views | longtimefan |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 12:43 - Jan 7 by tractorboy1978 |
I think the specification you've outlined is right. The model we are basically looking to follow is the Sheepshanks/Burley model - academy, invest in players from the lower leagues/young players looking to drop down from Prem and work their way back up. You can argue we have done that with Webster and Ward and MM did well with Mings too, however, it's clearly not something we have fully committed to with us preferring to loan in certain areas than buy. We need to be willing to pay more if we see value in a player to develop - not huge fees but more than we are willing to currently. |
The issue with the Youth approach is that we are not Category 1 academy. Without that we will always be disadvantaged as those that are can legally poach are best prospects. Our location also works against us in securing prospects as they need to be within the requisite “travelling” time limits. When our youth policy worked we could scour the whole country and pick up players under noses of local clubs who were less interested in youth. Now almost every club operates an Academy and the rules prevent us from competing  | | | |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 14:05 - Jan 7 with 3204 views | factual_blue |
Follow my example and stop going. |  |
| |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 14:08 - Jan 7 with 3201 views | monty_radio |
Not only does Mick shoulder the football stuff alone, but his bosses are more than usually ignorant of football itself. In some ways Mick relishes that as it allows him to say, I did it my way. But his increasing references to other team's resources suggest he realises that everything has moved on.
It makes no sense to operate a lone show these days. Yet until there is a wider knowledgeable power-base within the club's management structure I don't think that the kind of strategy called for by the OP would be likely to appear. | |
| |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 14:09 - Jan 7 with 3201 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 13:55 - Jan 7 by longtimefan |
The issue with the Youth approach is that we are not Category 1 academy. Without that we will always be disadvantaged as those that are can legally poach are best prospects. Our location also works against us in securing prospects as they need to be within the requisite “travelling” time limits. When our youth policy worked we could scour the whole country and pick up players under noses of local clubs who were less interested in youth. Now almost every club operates an Academy and the rules prevent us from competing |
We still have one of the best academies in the division, Cat 1 or otherwise. If you have a scour through the England youth teams you won't find another Championship club with as many representatives as us. The new rules make it more difficult for us certainly but we are still doing very well. The real killer for us would be if we stop giving these kids chances in the first team - we aren't going to compete financially but we can offer a route into football the likes of Chelsea cannot. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 14:36 - Jan 7 with 3158 views | SenatorBlue |
Thinking much along those same lines, good post.
(1) Start from where we are currently strong - Klug and the academy - ring fence what we have there, and add the pathway to the first team in both talent and playing style. If you want to address the £6m annual loss on player wages, use promote, use and develop your youth, rather than stifle with loans out and in from other teams youth. If the academy is not developing address that - but it plain to see they are. The academy should mirror the first team playing style (top to bottom), but we can't do this based on the current first team ethos, no one want to join a hoof academy - in our case our first team ethos needs to change.
(2) Get the club infrastructure right. This is our biggest issue. Respect MEG for keeping us afloat and not interfering, but, the club needs an operating structure to set and connect the strategy from top to bottom, to communicate that strategy, to set and maintain budgets on the playing side, to ensure our transfers and academy player promotions/utilization fits that strategy, and to allow the first team manager/coach to get on with ensuring the first team delivers. This needs a DOF, not a Milne dead rubber, and is probably the most important recruitment we need to get right.
(3) Galvanize the fans. Be brave enough to do it our own way, not follow the crowd. We rely 40% in fan income, therefore the current, and forthcoming drop in attendances and season ticket numbers, and apathy/morose mood, could become fatal. Time has come for MEG to be brave. Swallow pride, admit we got it wrong, and reinstate 60+ pensioners. Give those few who lost out a free season ticket for 2018/19. Continue, and aggressively sell, the good youth ticket schemes and promotions that exist. Kids come free with an adult. Fill the ground with kids, schools, local football clubs. £20 match day ticket. Equivalent season ticket reductions, and multi-ticket schemes to keep them. I know the math doesn't work (extra fans does not cover £ lost), but that reducing attendance trends needs to be arrested. 30k every week, even if 10k a free kids, will eventually derive extra income, through a better match day experience.
It's not going to happen, but if I heard messaging along the above lines, and those outlined in DK's OP coming out of the club, not back of the fag packet 5 points per Milne last year, real commitment and desire from the club, I'd be back and fully on board to play my part in making it come true. Unfortunately, at present the fan is uninspired, and then despised for that. Long time season ticket, expired this summer as lost faith, and haven't missed it a bit - but, I want to be part of something with Ipswich and hate that I've lost faith in what Ipswich has become. |  | | |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 14:54 - Jan 7 with 3120 views | brogansnose |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 14:36 - Jan 7 by SenatorBlue |
Thinking much along those same lines, good post.
(1) Start from where we are currently strong - Klug and the academy - ring fence what we have there, and add the pathway to the first team in both talent and playing style. If you want to address the £6m annual loss on player wages, use promote, use and develop your youth, rather than stifle with loans out and in from other teams youth. If the academy is not developing address that - but it plain to see they are. The academy should mirror the first team playing style (top to bottom), but we can't do this based on the current first team ethos, no one want to join a hoof academy - in our case our first team ethos needs to change.
(2) Get the club infrastructure right. This is our biggest issue. Respect MEG for keeping us afloat and not interfering, but, the club needs an operating structure to set and connect the strategy from top to bottom, to communicate that strategy, to set and maintain budgets on the playing side, to ensure our transfers and academy player promotions/utilization fits that strategy, and to allow the first team manager/coach to get on with ensuring the first team delivers. This needs a DOF, not a Milne dead rubber, and is probably the most important recruitment we need to get right.
(3) Galvanize the fans. Be brave enough to do it our own way, not follow the crowd. We rely 40% in fan income, therefore the current, and forthcoming drop in attendances and season ticket numbers, and apathy/morose mood, could become fatal. Time has come for MEG to be brave. Swallow pride, admit we got it wrong, and reinstate 60+ pensioners. Give those few who lost out a free season ticket for 2018/19. Continue, and aggressively sell, the good youth ticket schemes and promotions that exist. Kids come free with an adult. Fill the ground with kids, schools, local football clubs. £20 match day ticket. Equivalent season ticket reductions, and multi-ticket schemes to keep them. I know the math doesn't work (extra fans does not cover £ lost), but that reducing attendance trends needs to be arrested. 30k every week, even if 10k a free kids, will eventually derive extra income, through a better match day experience.
It's not going to happen, but if I heard messaging along the above lines, and those outlined in DK's OP coming out of the club, not back of the fag packet 5 points per Milne last year, real commitment and desire from the club, I'd be back and fully on board to play my part in making it come true. Unfortunately, at present the fan is uninspired, and then despised for that. Long time season ticket, expired this summer as lost faith, and haven't missed it a bit - but, I want to be part of something with Ipswich and hate that I've lost faith in what Ipswich has become. |
That's two posts from you today that have been spot on the money.
I like you. |  | | |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 15:05 - Jan 7 with 3109 views | SenatorBlue |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 14:54 - Jan 7 by brogansnose |
That's two posts from you today that have been spot on the money.
I like you. |
Thanks....it doesn't help that my ice hockey team has gone for a tank this season as well! Just one sport/team, somewhere, without being a plastic that is going well. Is it to much to ask. I'm hoping this is all building to by some miracle, England winning the world cup. I'd take all of this, just to experience something like that. | | | |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 15:14 - Jan 7 with 3089 views | RegencyBlue |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 14:09 - Jan 7 by tractorboy1978 |
We still have one of the best academies in the division, Cat 1 or otherwise. If you have a scour through the England youth teams you won't find another Championship club with as many representatives as us. The new rules make it more difficult for us certainly but we are still doing very well. The real killer for us would be if we stop giving these kids chances in the first team - we aren't going to compete financially but we can offer a route into football the likes of Chelsea cannot. |
Tell that to Charlie Brown! |  | | |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 15:30 - Jan 7 with 3056 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 15:14 - Jan 7 by RegencyBlue |
Tell that to Charlie Brown! |
Which one has made greater progress in the pursuit of becoming a professional footballer, Charlie Brown or Tristan Nydam? They are the same age and played in same sides at academy level here. [Post edited 7 Jan 2018 15:30]
| | | |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 15:52 - Jan 7 with 3021 views | Fixed_It |
| Putting aside ME and Mick, whose example should we be following? on 15:30 - Jan 7 by tractorboy1978 |
Which one has made greater progress in the pursuit of becoming a professional footballer, Charlie Brown or Tristan Nydam? They are the same age and played in same sides at academy level here. [Post edited 7 Jan 2018 15:30]
|
Exactly. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
