| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis 11:09 - Jan 19 with 53672 views | BrixtonBlue |
They know, deep down, he's right. We don't need to eat animals. It is pretty cruel to breed them just to slaughter them, unless it's absolutely necessary for your survival (survival of the fittest). I think a lot of people are fighting with their own conscience and don't like that Callis is the one bringing that fight to the forefront of their minds.
For me, and I suspect a lot of us are the same, I was brought up believing eating animals was absolutely fine. I imagine in the early years I didn't even realise what I was eating. My dad would always drum into me about not wasting food... but then he, in turn, was brought up during the war when you couldn't be fussy. I bet there weren't many vegans knocking about in the 40's!
Also, animals do contain the nutrients we need AND our teeth are designed for tearing flesh.
Now, though, we have a choice. The problem is we've grown up with meat, we like it, and veganism seems a bit of a faff. That's the truth of it. I'll put a spider out in the garden rather than killing it but I'll happily tuck into a steak. We're hypocrites. Just accept that actually, however he expresses it, Callis is right. And then you won't get so angry.
Two things we can all do quite easily are eat less meat and eat outdoor-bred when we do have it. I do that, and although it's a long way short of what Callis is doing, it's better than nothing. And better for my conscience!
Right, need to get ready for heading oop north. I shall check back to see how this one turns out shortly! |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:58 - Jan 19 with 5751 views | PhilTWTD |
Further to this, getting a bit fed up of the abuse aimed at Callis (as well as similar from him as mentioned yesterday) and don't really see why there's been the need regardless of whether people agree with him or otherwise.
While I think we've probably had rather too many of vegan threads (and in addition others have turned other threads onto the same issue to stir), but no need for the abuse and we're running out of patience on that front as we're rather busy at the moment. |  | | |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:59 - Jan 19 with 5721 views | monytowbray |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:58 - Jan 19 by PhilTWTD |
Further to this, getting a bit fed up of the abuse aimed at Callis (as well as similar from him as mentioned yesterday) and don't really see why there's been the need regardless of whether people agree with him or otherwise.
While I think we've probably had rather too many of vegan threads (and in addition others have turned other threads onto the same issue to stir), but no need for the abuse and we're running out of patience on that front as we're rather busy at the moment. |
Someone needs to announce the Mings loan deal today afterall ;) |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:59 - Jan 19 with 5720 views | Superfrans |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:47 - Jan 19 by GeoffSentence |
I think you are spot on there Dolly.
Callis is absolutely right about the cruelty involved in farming animals and it does twinge upon my conscious when I eat them.
The trouble is, having been brought up as a meat eater it is a struggle to move away, vegetarian and in particular vegan food has never hit the mark for me.
Still I have gone some way, I am now part vegan as I have vegan food with almost every meal. |
To be fair, even hardened, enthusiastic meat eaters have "vegan food" with almost every meal.
Peas are vegan food. ;-) |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:00 - Jan 19 with 5711 views | Kieran_Knows |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:58 - Jan 19 by PhilTWTD |
Further to this, getting a bit fed up of the abuse aimed at Callis (as well as similar from him as mentioned yesterday) and don't really see why there's been the need regardless of whether people agree with him or otherwise.
While I think we've probably had rather too many of vegan threads (and in addition others have turned other threads onto the same issue to stir), but no need for the abuse and we're running out of patience on that front as we're rather busy at the moment. |
Leave me with the login details and i'll sort the football side of things around here. |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:01 - Jan 19 with 5699 views | imsureazzure |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:58 - Jan 19 by PhilTWTD |
Further to this, getting a bit fed up of the abuse aimed at Callis (as well as similar from him as mentioned yesterday) and don't really see why there's been the need regardless of whether people agree with him or otherwise.
While I think we've probably had rather too many of vegan threads (and in addition others have turned other threads onto the same issue to stir), but no need for the abuse and we're running out of patience on that front as we're rather busy at the moment. |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis (n/t) on 12:02 - Jan 19 with 5700 views | Darth_Koont |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:50 - Jan 19 by monytowbray |
The people in here angry at Dolly and slagging me off rather than addressing the points he makes about my choices and the reactions of others on why they get upset are proving his/my point.
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This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:04 - Jan 19 with 5662 views | Superfrans |
The outraged reaction to this (most of which is a fairly rational summary) is faintly ridiculous.
We don't need to eat animals - true.
We were all raised eating animals - true.
Not many vegans immediately post war - true.
But now we have a choice - true.
Veganism is a bit of a pain - true.
Saving a spider, while eating a pig, is hypocrisy - true.
We are all fighting our conscience on this - true for some, not others.
Is any of this really that contentious? | |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:05 - Jan 19 with 5659 views | Darth_Koont |
What was I saying about you being over-zealous and making this about you? | |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:05 - Jan 19 with 5653 views | Superfrans |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:58 - Jan 19 by PhilTWTD |
Further to this, getting a bit fed up of the abuse aimed at Callis (as well as similar from him as mentioned yesterday) and don't really see why there's been the need regardless of whether people agree with him or otherwise.
While I think we've probably had rather too many of vegan threads (and in addition others have turned other threads onto the same issue to stir), but no need for the abuse and we're running out of patience on that front as we're rather busy at the moment. |
A vegan thread - is that a thread that has been produced without exploiting animals??
:-) | |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:07 - Jan 19 with 5630 views | itfcjoe |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:56 - Jan 19 by monytowbray |
The fact you call it a straw man shows you don't get it. You are not happy with your choices, you are in denial of the reality of your choices.
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Kicking a dog to death is a straw man. The animal industry has standards to maintain and if they aren't then this is the issue that needs to be addressed.
If you w@nked in someone's pizza when you worked at Dominos and were filmed by hidden cameras that wouldn't be representative of the whole pizza industry in the same way that someone abusing an animal wouldn't be for the animal rearing industry |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:07 - Jan 19 with 5630 views | J2BLUE |
In theory we don't need to eat animals. I think nutrient quality and availability are grey areas. Callis doesn't agree which is fine. Plenty of interviews with former vegans though who were doing the ideal vegan diet and ended up eating meat again to cure their problems which could be read for balance.
Eating more plant foods in general is probably a good idea for everyone health wise and for the environment. I think most of us can say Callis has at least made us think which can only be a good thing. |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:07 - Jan 19 with 5619 views | Ryorry |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:04 - Jan 19 by Superfrans |
The outraged reaction to this (most of which is a fairly rational summary) is faintly ridiculous.
We don't need to eat animals - true.
We were all raised eating animals - true.
Not many vegans immediately post war - true.
But now we have a choice - true.
Veganism is a bit of a pain - true.
Saving a spider, while eating a pig, is hypocrisy - true.
We are all fighting our conscience on this - true for some, not others.
Is any of this really that contentious? |
Actually, some of us with IBD *do* need to eat meat (see CIL's thread yesterday). Accept that most people don't tho.
Sorry, didn't want to prolong thread, but need to set the facts straight. |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:08 - Jan 19 with 5610 views | Reuser_is_God |
Stop chomping on Callis’ meat would you. |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:17 - Jan 19 with 5536 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:59 - Jan 19 by Superfrans |
To be fair, even hardened, enthusiastic meat eaters have "vegan food" with almost every meal.
Peas are vegan food. ;-) |
I thought that was the joke! |  |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:22 - Jan 19 with 5505 views | Superfrans |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:07 - Jan 19 by Ryorry |
Actually, some of us with IBD *do* need to eat meat (see CIL's thread yesterday). Accept that most people don't tho.
Sorry, didn't want to prolong thread, but need to set the facts straight. |
Fair enough, for those with specific health/dietary issues. Although, is that 100% the case, or partly also driven also by convenience (which is also fine, btw).
In any case, I'm really making the case regarding society as a whole.
For the record, I'm not a veggie, but I have been for periods of my life and eat a lot of "vegetarian" meals (although I don't tend to categorise them that way, they're just "meals" to me).
But I have consistently found it odd how so many omnivores feel so obviously and clearly threatened by the idea of vegetarians/vegans and vegetarianism/veganism. I get that some veggies are pretty hardcore and can be a bit pushy. But on the facts (which the op was all about) are pretty undeniable. | |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:25 - Jan 19 with 5485 views | lowhouseblue |
social media (I guess twtd sort of counts) consists of people trying to establish their moral superiority over strangers. I guess competing for moral superiority inevitably leads to anger. veganism is the perfect ground on which to prove that you're a better person than someone else. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:27 - Jan 19 with 5471 views | eireblue |
If you are interested, some stories from people that made the switch, some that come from humane farms
https://freefromharm.org/animal-products-and-ethics/former-meat-dairy-farmers-be
PS. On a purely technical note, your are not a carnivore. All mammals had a common ancestor, that includes the carnivores, herbivores and omnivores, all of which evolved and adapted to consume particular kinds of diets. Humans never used their teeth to kill and rip flesh of a recently killed body, as do many real carnivores. Your jaw, saliva and intestinal tract is not that of a carnivore. Many herbivores have canine teeth. |  | | |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis (n/t) on 12:28 - Jan 19 with 5457 views | PhilTWTD |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis (n/t) on 12:02 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Literally four minutes after my post. Think we've made our position clear. | | | |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:30 - Jan 19 with 5434 views | monytowbray |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:05 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
What was I saying about you being over-zealous and making this about you? |
Is insulting me rather than discussing the points in the debate not making it about me then?
LOL. | |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:32 - Jan 19 with 5414 views | benno1uk |
I think it's a fad thing that gets up people's noses with Callis. Most people are able to make their own mind up and don't have to slavishly follow the latest fad.
See also Tattoos / beards... there's probably more but I can't be arsed to think/check. [Post edited 19 Jan 2018 12:33]
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:32 - Jan 19 with 5414 views | monytowbray |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:07 - Jan 19 by itfcjoe |
Kicking a dog to death is a straw man. The animal industry has standards to maintain and if they aren't then this is the issue that needs to be addressed.
If you w@nked in someone's pizza when you worked at Dominos and were filmed by hidden cameras that wouldn't be representative of the whole pizza industry in the same way that someone abusing an animal wouldn't be for the animal rearing industry |
Is there any part of the meat industry that doesn't kill animals for the end result?
Can you 100% assure me you know where all your animal products come from and you aren't funding the "cruel" side of the industry? | |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:33 - Jan 19 with 5405 views | flimflam |
You sound like a right laugh |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:35 - Jan 19 with 5387 views | Ryorry |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:22 - Jan 19 by Superfrans |
Fair enough, for those with specific health/dietary issues. Although, is that 100% the case, or partly also driven also by convenience (which is also fine, btw).
In any case, I'm really making the case regarding society as a whole.
For the record, I'm not a veggie, but I have been for periods of my life and eat a lot of "vegetarian" meals (although I don't tend to categorise them that way, they're just "meals" to me).
But I have consistently found it odd how so many omnivores feel so obviously and clearly threatened by the idea of vegetarians/vegans and vegetarianism/veganism. I get that some veggies are pretty hardcore and can be a bit pushy. But on the facts (which the op was all about) are pretty undeniable. |
100% the case for me, so many foods or even whole groups of food (normal bread, cabbage family, dairy for instance) are out, and my absorption of everything's impaired - particularly if in the form of supplements - that I need red meat for the iron and B12 particularly. Can eat some peas & beans but only in small (insufficient) quantities. However, I try to make my diet as varied as poss within the limits, so don't actually eat meat more than 3 x /week.
I was also veggie then briefly vegan at a couple of points in my life, but had to revert cos of gut damage from the CO poisoning.
I don't think omnivores here feel "threatened", but much like the rest of the general population, they don't like being preached at repeatedly, told they're cruel, what they should be doing (almost guaranteed to be counter-productive) etc. [Post edited 19 Jan 2018 12:43]
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| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:39 - Jan 19 with 5358 views | JakeITFC |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:56 - Jan 19 by monytowbray |
The fact you call it a straw man shows you don't get it. You are not happy with your choices, you are in denial of the reality of your choices.
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Having read most of the points in these discussions over the past few months, I feel relatively well informed on it all.
I still choose to eat meat; that is to say I'm not in denial. Whilst I admire your stand point (and actually do also understand your reasoning with the dog kicking/racism/holocaust stuff as well) I just think the logic leap between being morally outraged about animals being killed is not one that I can see myself making.
I think this is the grey area part that has often been discussed - you see it as a black and white issue (as I understand it) because the other side seems so morally repugnant when you've chosen that path. It's just my opinion that that moral decision isn't as clear cut for the majority of people and, although it is perhaps massively hypocritical, the grey area around liking dogs/cats etc. and not pigs is one that actually exists in the majority of people. |  | | |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 12:40 - Jan 19 with 5348 views | StokieBlue |
| I think I know why people get so angry with Callis on 11:55 - Jan 19 by StokieBlue |
Can you explain your avatar? I honestly don't understand it.
I might be having a dozy moment though.
SB |
Please?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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