| At what point do the fans become involved? 14:10 - Feb 13 with 50570 views | FinidiCentenary |
I remember a few years ago people expressing concerns over Evans and McCarthy. Even in the playoff season we were average to poor for the second half of the season and scraped in the playoffs on the final day after being top on Boxing Day. We have been terrible to watch for close to two years and only a small part of that has seen us picking up decent results.
Boxing Day 2014. It's over 3 years now since we've been regularly enjoyable to watch. 3 YEARS of Mick's 5 year reign. I know loyal fans who quit two seasons ago even when we were getting results because the football was so awful to sit through.
Yet we've seen nothing from the fans. I always assumed there would be, in a situation like this, a progression.
Fans unhappy / Fans very unhappy / Fans protesting / Fans boycotting / Fans disappearing for good
But we seem to have missed a stage. Fans have gone from being bored, unhappy and dismayed to just leaving altogether. No ST renewals, no returning. Gone.
At what stage do we get involved. Milne can say that Evans is aware of the rift but McCarthy is still giving it the big 'I might still be around'. It's preposterous.
I've seen plenty of mates who have followed the town for decades home and away just stop. Most haven't missed it. Most won't come back until Mick is gone. A large number of those I still see in the ground won't be back next year if Mick is here.
So what do the rest of us do. There's such an air of acceptance that people aren't even protesting, coming in late, walking out early, persistent chanting like with Jewell and Keane. It's like the club has sucked the passion from the fans so severely we can't even be bothered to protest.
I'd rather it was all going well on and off the pitch. But it isn't. Seems to me that we'll lose another 2,000 ST holders quietly before anybody actually does anything. If it's still this bad by the next home game I really hope people start acting.
I remember Duncan out chants. I remember protests. I remember fans on the pitch (I think after a 2-0 home defeat to Coventry when Wright made his debut or shortly after). I remember bed sheets (lol). I remember 'Sort it out' chants. We've had a few half hearted 'You're football is sh*t chants'. That's it.
We aren't going up or down. It can't make the players perform any worse than they were against Burton. Should we inevitably lose to Norwich now is the time for people to actually let Evans know how we feel. His image is something he cares about.
Losing 2,000 ST holders last year didn't work. Fans being disgruntled and breaking the lowest crowd record doesn't work. He's pumping £6m in. He's not really bothered about losing a few hundred grand next year is he.
The only thing that will work is bringing attention to the fact we consider him to be the bigger problem. Until we actually start having a voice and doing something, rather than accepting the status quo, the sooner we have a chance of getting our club back. [Post edited 13 Feb 2018 14:14]
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:26 - Feb 14 with 4042 views | No9 |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:20 - Feb 14 by Herbivore |
You're avoiding my questions again so I'm done trying to have a conversation with you. |
I have not avoided any of your questions, I superseded your last set of questions which have been answered by me & any number of other posters but you just do not want to consider anyone else has a point of view that is contrary to yours irrespective of whether or not you might be wrong.
I tis just disappointing you have no ambition for the club youpurport to support.
Se la Vie | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:26 - Feb 14 with 4042 views | nshearman1 |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:20 - Feb 14 by Herbivore |
You're avoiding my questions again so I'm done trying to have a conversation with you. |
You seem to be leaving us when you haven't answered ours? Because you can't? | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:28 - Feb 14 with 4035 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:15 - Feb 14 by nshearman1 |
This should be an answer for Herb but suspect as usual he'll go for the last word.
However, I disagree on a couple of points.
Firstly, I think Evans IS bothered when it comes to money. In spite of Herb trying to re-write history, attendances are down and so are STs - and indeed you can see this has had an effect - which is where I disagree with Finidi - with the club making strenuous attempts to make 'offers' to get the fans back, and Milne admitting publicly that the move for STs from over-60s to over-65s was a big mistake and promising lots more 'offers'.
And as others have said, the state of the pitch and PR generally is testament to the lack of money being invested in the club.
So I personally think a walk-out could be effective. It will certainly attract adverse publicity to Evans, who is of course publicity-shy. And if Herb needs yet another example, such a protest was hugely effective at Liverpool a couple of seasons back.
I also would like Mick to go but my feeling from the odd clues coming out of PR is that he'll stay. So a protest of some sort could help move things on, because I feel this club is sleepwalking its way through decline.
Hopefully these points answer Herb's call for specifics. I look forward to hearing him outline what he would like to see happen.
Herb is also re-writing history when he claims he's wanted Mick out for the best part of two seasons now - it's certainly not clear in his posts - and, while I take on board his point about not necessarily hating Mick (and I personally don't), from his posts one can only conclude that he has indeed re-positioned an untenable position! |
You are rather obsessed with me, bless you. It's actually quite sweet.
I haven't repositioned myself as you claim. Last season (later on in the season) I said Mick should go in the summer. I've repeatedly said he should go this summer. I've also repeatedly said he's done a good job overall and that the abuse he gets isn't warranted. I've been pretty consistent, people like of infer that I'm an 'inner' because I'm not losing my sh!t every 5 minutes, people need to actually read what is posted sometimes.
Regarding attendances, there is no rewriting of history. The figures are there to see. Attendance has dropped by only 100 or so from Mick's first full season here to our current average attendance. I know that's inconvenient for some but you can look it up yourself easily enough. That's not to say there isn't a feeling of malaise about the place but the statistics are there and they don't back up that fans have left in their droves under Mick.
As for what I'd like to see, a change of manager in the summer is needed. A bit of money for Huws, Waghorn, Webster level signings and continued investment in the academy. Consistently good football would be nice too. |  |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:35 - Feb 14 with 4024 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:26 - Feb 14 by nshearman1 |
You seem to be leaving us when you haven't answered ours? Because you can't? |
I've just answered yours, pal. No9 hasn't answered anything I've put to him so I'm not going to do him the courtesy of answering his questions (although they are largely answered in my response to you). | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:12 - Feb 14 with 3994 views | Bluedandy |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:05 - Feb 14 by Herbivore |
So what is it you're hoping the protest will do and what form should it take? You've still not really made that clear.
Look, you may think attendances are a massive issue but their decline is (a) overstated, (b) fairly standard for a club stuck in the same division (see how badly Cardiff's attendances dropped after one season at this level), and (c) compared to our historic attendances something of a non-issue. I was one of less than 11.5k fans that saw us beat Sheffield United at Portman Road when we were a Premier League side, we're getting more than that now despite 16 years in the same division.
It's clear attendances have become just another stick to beat the club with, which is fine, people are frustrated at how boring it is to support Town currently. Not sure boredom warrants a protest though. [Post edited 14 Feb 2018 17:12]
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It's pretty straightforward - after a decade of rancid stagnation fans want Marcus Evans to sell up and leave.
Collective non-violent protests are a relatively standard form of free speech and Town fans are hardly behaving in a mob-handed knee-jerk fashion.
In ten years under Evans, comprising exclusively of second division football, we have achieved just one top 6 finish.
That amounts to the worst run of league finishes since Town were playing third division football back in the 1950s.
It's time to change owner. If not we will end up in League One. | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:16 - Feb 14 with 3989 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:12 - Feb 14 by Bluedandy |
It's pretty straightforward - after a decade of rancid stagnation fans want Marcus Evans to sell up and leave.
Collective non-violent protests are a relatively standard form of free speech and Town fans are hardly behaving in a mob-handed knee-jerk fashion.
In ten years under Evans, comprising exclusively of second division football, we have achieved just one top 6 finish.
That amounts to the worst run of league finishes since Town were playing third division football back in the 1950s.
It's time to change owner. If not we will end up in League One. |
That's the problem solved then.
Just need to set aside a date to interview all the prospective Owners. |  | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:18 - Feb 14 with 3987 views | Bluedandy |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:16 - Feb 14 by PJH |
That's the problem solved then.
Just need to set aside a date to interview all the prospective Owners. |
You just find an empty blue seat and sit on your hands.
Don't worry thousands to choose from. Problem solved. | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:30 - Feb 14 with 3973 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:18 - Feb 14 by Bluedandy |
You just find an empty blue seat and sit on your hands.
Don't worry thousands to choose from. Problem solved. |
A new Owner hurling loads of money at it might be the answer but finding one is the problem-even if ME does want to sell.
It is not quite as simple as saying "we need a new Owner". | | | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:36 - Feb 14 with 3964 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:12 - Feb 14 by Bluedandy |
It's pretty straightforward - after a decade of rancid stagnation fans want Marcus Evans to sell up and leave.
Collective non-violent protests are a relatively standard form of free speech and Town fans are hardly behaving in a mob-handed knee-jerk fashion.
In ten years under Evans, comprising exclusively of second division football, we have achieved just one top 6 finish.
That amounts to the worst run of league finishes since Town were playing third division football back in the 1950s.
It's time to change owner. If not we will end up in League One. |
And you think protests will bring in a new owner who will be better than Evans? | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:40 - Feb 14 with 3960 views | BackToRussia |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:36 - Feb 14 by Herbivore |
And you think protests will bring in a new owner who will be better than Evans? |
Why not? Evans would realise he's more unpopular than he thought and hasten his efforts to sell. Evans has made very few good decisions, even as an owner. It wouldn't be particularly hard to find someone better than him at it. |  |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:42 - Feb 14 with 3957 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:40 - Feb 14 by BackToRussia |
Why not? Evans would realise he's more unpopular than he thought and hasten his efforts to sell. Evans has made very few good decisions, even as an owner. It wouldn't be particularly hard to find someone better than him at it. |
To sell you need a buyer, if one existed he'd probably already have sold us. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:45 - Feb 14 with 3952 views | BackToRussia |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:42 - Feb 14 by Herbivore |
To sell you need a buyer, if one existed he'd probably already have sold us. |
He has rejected offers. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 20:02 - Feb 14 with 3940 views | longtimefan |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:45 - Feb 14 by BackToRussia |
He has rejected offers. |
Any evidence for that statement? | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 20:07 - Feb 14 with 3938 views | BackToRussia |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 20:02 - Feb 14 by longtimefan |
Any evidence for that statement? |
If I wasn't so lazy, I could give you easy proof. It was a throwaway line in one of Milne's long line of interviews defending ME's tenureship. I may be a fantasist but I didn't imagine that. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 20:25 - Feb 14 with 3932 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:45 - Feb 14 by BackToRussia |
He has rejected offers. |
Has he? When? | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 20:55 - Feb 14 with 3922 views | BackToRussia |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 20:25 - Feb 14 by Herbivore |
Has he? When? |
See above post. Milne mentioned it quite blithely in an interview a year or so ago. So I guess any time before 2016.
It doesn't seem unlikely to me. They could have been quite poor offers and just used as a bit of press niceness but maybe they were half serious. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 22:17 - Feb 14 with 3896 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 20:55 - Feb 14 by BackToRussia |
See above post. Milne mentioned it quite blithely in an interview a year or so ago. So I guess any time before 2016.
It doesn't seem unlikely to me. They could have been quite poor offers and just used as a bit of press niceness but maybe they were half serious. |
Don't remember that at all. You sure he wasn't referring to offers for players? | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 05:50 - Feb 15 with 3833 views | Benters2 |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 19:36 - Feb 14 by Herbivore |
And you think protests will bring in a new owner who will be better than Evans? |
Never fear change dear x | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 08:25 - Feb 15 with 3809 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 05:50 - Feb 15 by Benters2 |
Never fear change dear x |
I'd be happy for Evans to go, I don't fear change. I'm just not sure a protest is warranted and find it funny that the likes of you, who will go to games if it takes your fancy or is cheap enough, now think you're on some sort of moral crusade to bring about change. You aren't, you just go to fewer games than you used to. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 08:50 - Feb 15 with 3794 views | nshearman1 |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 08:25 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
I'd be happy for Evans to go, I don't fear change. I'm just not sure a protest is warranted and find it funny that the likes of you, who will go to games if it takes your fancy or is cheap enough, now think you're on some sort of moral crusade to bring about change. You aren't, you just go to fewer games than you used to. |
Blimey, Herb, you spent most of Valentines Day AND evening arguing on this one thread alone! True love. Sweet, pal! | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 09:13 - Feb 15 with 3782 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 08:50 - Feb 15 by nshearman1 |
Blimey, Herb, you spent most of Valentines Day AND evening arguing on this one thread alone! True love. Sweet, pal! |
Yawn. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 09:49 - Feb 15 with 3770 views | BackToRussia |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 22:17 - Feb 14 by Herbivore |
Don't remember that at all. You sure he wasn't referring to offers for players? |
I shall have to look it up now, but no, I am fairly definite because it was in the context of ME's continued ownership, and the issue of how engaged he still is or whether he wants to essentially sell.
Would it really surprise you that he had received a couple of offers over a 10 year period anyway? | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 11:21 - Feb 15 with 3740 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 09:49 - Feb 15 by BackToRussia |
I shall have to look it up now, but no, I am fairly definite because it was in the context of ME's continued ownership, and the issue of how engaged he still is or whether he wants to essentially sell.
Would it really surprise you that he had received a couple of offers over a 10 year period anyway? |
It wouldn't be a huge surprise if there'd been a bit of interest over the last 10 years but even if there have been a couple of offers in 10 years that doesn't exactly suggest they're queuing up to buy us. If they were I suspect he'd have sold up by now, it's been clear the last few years that he's just keeping things ticking over solidly enough until he can cut and run or fluke a promotion. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 11:24 - Feb 15 with 3736 views | FinidiCentenary |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 11:21 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
It wouldn't be a huge surprise if there'd been a bit of interest over the last 10 years but even if there have been a couple of offers in 10 years that doesn't exactly suggest they're queuing up to buy us. If they were I suspect he'd have sold up by now, it's been clear the last few years that he's just keeping things ticking over solidly enough until he can cut and run or fluke a promotion. |
And if fans were more vocal about wanting him out, it may well accelerate the process and he may even sell up a little bit cheaper.
There's every reason to want £20m for a club where everything is rosy (if we imagine this is the 'price'. Would you not consider £17m though if you were well aware you were disliked, fans would stay away and that you'd lost an extra £3m over the next year anyway with those fans staying away.
The more fans that aren't coming to games, the more Evans has to put in from his own pocket. It makes more sense to sell now for £15m for example than to sell for £20m next year after making an extra £6m loss. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 11:33 - Feb 15 with 3732 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 11:24 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
And if fans were more vocal about wanting him out, it may well accelerate the process and he may even sell up a little bit cheaper.
There's every reason to want £20m for a club where everything is rosy (if we imagine this is the 'price'. Would you not consider £17m though if you were well aware you were disliked, fans would stay away and that you'd lost an extra £3m over the next year anyway with those fans staying away.
The more fans that aren't coming to games, the more Evans has to put in from his own pocket. It makes more sense to sell now for £15m for example than to sell for £20m next year after making an extra £6m loss. |
You're assuming there is any interest at all. You're also assuming that protesting fans won't make any potential buyer think twice about investing. Anyway, you crack on with organising your protest. It seems to have some support at least so I wish you well with it. | |
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