| At what point do the fans become involved? 14:10 - Feb 13 with 50575 views | FinidiCentenary |
I remember a few years ago people expressing concerns over Evans and McCarthy. Even in the playoff season we were average to poor for the second half of the season and scraped in the playoffs on the final day after being top on Boxing Day. We have been terrible to watch for close to two years and only a small part of that has seen us picking up decent results.
Boxing Day 2014. It's over 3 years now since we've been regularly enjoyable to watch. 3 YEARS of Mick's 5 year reign. I know loyal fans who quit two seasons ago even when we were getting results because the football was so awful to sit through.
Yet we've seen nothing from the fans. I always assumed there would be, in a situation like this, a progression.
Fans unhappy / Fans very unhappy / Fans protesting / Fans boycotting / Fans disappearing for good
But we seem to have missed a stage. Fans have gone from being bored, unhappy and dismayed to just leaving altogether. No ST renewals, no returning. Gone.
At what stage do we get involved. Milne can say that Evans is aware of the rift but McCarthy is still giving it the big 'I might still be around'. It's preposterous.
I've seen plenty of mates who have followed the town for decades home and away just stop. Most haven't missed it. Most won't come back until Mick is gone. A large number of those I still see in the ground won't be back next year if Mick is here.
So what do the rest of us do. There's such an air of acceptance that people aren't even protesting, coming in late, walking out early, persistent chanting like with Jewell and Keane. It's like the club has sucked the passion from the fans so severely we can't even be bothered to protest.
I'd rather it was all going well on and off the pitch. But it isn't. Seems to me that we'll lose another 2,000 ST holders quietly before anybody actually does anything. If it's still this bad by the next home game I really hope people start acting.
I remember Duncan out chants. I remember protests. I remember fans on the pitch (I think after a 2-0 home defeat to Coventry when Wright made his debut or shortly after). I remember bed sheets (lol). I remember 'Sort it out' chants. We've had a few half hearted 'You're football is sh*t chants'. That's it.
We aren't going up or down. It can't make the players perform any worse than they were against Burton. Should we inevitably lose to Norwich now is the time for people to actually let Evans know how we feel. His image is something he cares about.
Losing 2,000 ST holders last year didn't work. Fans being disgruntled and breaking the lowest crowd record doesn't work. He's pumping £6m in. He's not really bothered about losing a few hundred grand next year is he.
The only thing that will work is bringing attention to the fact we consider him to be the bigger problem. Until we actually start having a voice and doing something, rather than accepting the status quo, the sooner we have a chance of getting our club back. [Post edited 13 Feb 2018 14:14]
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:14 - Feb 15 with 2863 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 15:59 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
You also don't have a financial interest in your neighbours car.
None of us own McDonalds. But if we were all longstanding customers, they changed the menu, put prices up, or started using beef from cows that had been shot in the face at close range and enough customers kicked off or boycotted them you can bet your arse McDonalds would change.
Evans owns ITFC, but the fans make it what it is. Without us there is no club. So to think we have to put up with everything he does is absolutely pathetic and you could argue that so many fans sharing this attitude has played some small part in our ineptitude.
If fans had all called for McCarthy's head frequently at the end of last season he'd be gone. Can you remember any club where fans have persistently called for the managers head and he hasn't gone, except for when the club has then been massively successful? I can't.
We have so much power here, but so many of you are utterly terrified of what might happen (like the frequent suggestion of Evans winding up an asset he could get millions for FFS lol).
If people can't be bothered to voice how they feel with Evans in a manner than will force him to think then hopefully you'll refrain from crying when we inevitably go down into League One. |
Yes, I am going to use the power that I have to support MM and ITFC.
I am not interested in your little protest but no doubt will hear about it from time to time on here. |  | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:15 - Feb 15 with 2853 views | nshearman1 |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:04 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
Maybe that's the form the protest will take? Not seen much meat on the bones of this 'protest' yet so feasibly it could be anything. |
Just come back on this one - Jeez, Herb, have you not got anything better to do?! | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:17 - Feb 15 with 2860 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:09 - Feb 15 by No9 |
Correct & we can't demand he changes his football advisors or employs a football manager who will uphold the policies of the game = it is a game to be played to win.
That doesn't mean we cannot, as customers, make it known to the Owner we are not happy with his product and, if he doesn't do something about it we shall discontinue purchasing it.
Is't that our right? |
Yes that is our right.
Now when does my ST renewal arrive? | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:23 - Feb 15 with 2850 views | FinidiCentenary |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:17 - Feb 15 by PJH |
Yes that is our right.
Now when does my ST renewal arrive? |
There appears to be a clear pattern emerging from the long standing fans I know and I wonder if that's also true of TWTD.
The long term fans who absolutely love the club are now staying away because they can't bear to see what it's becoming.
The ones I know that go to football as an excuse to drink, see mates and escape their miserable home lives, continue to go, probably because the football is the fourth highest reason that they actually attend. No wonder they don't care about making a change.
In fact they probably pine for the FL Trophy so they can have an extra couple of nights out a year. [Post edited 15 Feb 2018 16:26]
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:26 - Feb 15 with 2840 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:15 - Feb 15 by nshearman1 |
Just come back on this one - Jeez, Herb, have you not got anything better to do?! |
Says the man who has taken the time to come on this thread to make a post digging at me (and does so with surprising regularity). Pot and kettle, mate. |  |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:27 - Feb 15 with 2840 views | artsbossbeard |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:23 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
There appears to be a clear pattern emerging from the long standing fans I know and I wonder if that's also true of TWTD.
The long term fans who absolutely love the club are now staying away because they can't bear to see what it's becoming.
The ones I know that go to football as an excuse to drink, see mates and escape their miserable home lives, continue to go, probably because the football is the fourth highest reason that they actually attend. No wonder they don't care about making a change.
In fact they probably pine for the FL Trophy so they can have an extra couple of nights out a year. [Post edited 15 Feb 2018 16:26]
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I actually simply enjoy going to the game.
Is match attendance without an agenda allowed now? |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:29 - Feb 15 with 2836 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:23 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
There appears to be a clear pattern emerging from the long standing fans I know and I wonder if that's also true of TWTD.
The long term fans who absolutely love the club are now staying away because they can't bear to see what it's becoming.
The ones I know that go to football as an excuse to drink, see mates and escape their miserable home lives, continue to go, probably because the football is the fourth highest reason that they actually attend. No wonder they don't care about making a change.
In fact they probably pine for the FL Trophy so they can have an extra couple of nights out a year. [Post edited 15 Feb 2018 16:26]
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Lolz. Blubz. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:32 - Feb 15 with 2828 views | No9 |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:17 - Feb 15 by PJH |
Yes that is our right.
Now when does my ST renewal arrive? |
& it is the right of those who don't like the'football' MM dishes up to voice their opinion - isn't it? | | | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:34 - Feb 15 with 2814 views | nshearman1 |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:26 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
Says the man who has taken the time to come on this thread to make a post digging at me (and does so with surprising regularity). Pot and kettle, mate. |
Wasn't on it for Valentine's night, pal, or most of today. But please have the last word, as always. | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:35 - Feb 15 with 2821 views | FinidiCentenary |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:29 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
Lolz. Blubz. |
I'll stick you down for the second option then. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:37 - Feb 15 with 2816 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:23 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
There appears to be a clear pattern emerging from the long standing fans I know and I wonder if that's also true of TWTD.
The long term fans who absolutely love the club are now staying away because they can't bear to see what it's becoming.
The ones I know that go to football as an excuse to drink, see mates and escape their miserable home lives, continue to go, probably because the football is the fourth highest reason that they actually attend. No wonder they don't care about making a change.
In fact they probably pine for the FL Trophy so they can have an extra couple of nights out a year. [Post edited 15 Feb 2018 16:26]
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If there was ever any doubt about me going to support MM and his team posts like this would make my mind up in favour of going.
My home life is not too bad but thanks for asking. | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:42 - Feb 15 with 2812 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:32 - Feb 15 by No9 |
& it is the right of those who don't like the'football' MM dishes up to voice their opinion - isn't it? |
Certainly ,just as it is the right of those of us that worship the ground that he walks on to hope that he is here for another 2 years. | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:45 - Feb 15 with 2809 views | No9 |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:42 - Feb 15 by PJH |
Certainly ,just as it is the right of those of us that worship the ground that he walks on to hope that he is here for another 2 years. |
I do, as a long term supporter of ITFC find it very depressing that you have so little ambition for the club.
But then you have the right to accept mediocrity rather than have a team manavger who plays the game the originators intended it to be played
You are entitled to watch rubbish but don't expect me to
Se la vie | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:56 - Feb 15 with 2791 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:45 - Feb 15 by No9 |
I do, as a long term supporter of ITFC find it very depressing that you have so little ambition for the club.
But then you have the right to accept mediocrity rather than have a team manavger who plays the game the originators intended it to be played
You are entitled to watch rubbish but don't expect me to
Se la vie |
I don't expect you to watch it, didn't think you did anyway.
I have not seen the original "how to play football" pamphlet but I do believe that the idea,as with any professional sport, is to win.
I particularly like an ITFC win if it hard fought and backs to the wall, better still if the opposition have 70% possession.
My ambition for the Club is for them to win enough games, however they do it, to get enough points to finish in the top 6-only because Derby let us of course-and then to win the playoffs.
Could go for the top 2 but that would mean potentially missing a couple more hard fought backs to the wall wins. | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:59 - Feb 15 with 2784 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:35 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
I'll stick you down for the second option then. |
This will blow your mind: It's possible to love Ipswich Town AND to still want to go to the game without the game itself being fourth priority. Look on the bright side, we've got some cracking young talent coming through, Bart has signed a new deal, we've got Huws and Adeyemi to come back next season, signings like Waghorn, Webster and Garner have all been good. We've got a pretty good club badge. The owner is prepared to put his own money in so we can live beyond our means and support one of the best academies in the country. It's not all doom and gloom. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:05 - Feb 15 with 2777 views | FinidiCentenary |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:56 - Feb 15 by PJH |
I don't expect you to watch it, didn't think you did anyway.
I have not seen the original "how to play football" pamphlet but I do believe that the idea,as with any professional sport, is to win.
I particularly like an ITFC win if it hard fought and backs to the wall, better still if the opposition have 70% possession.
My ambition for the Club is for them to win enough games, however they do it, to get enough points to finish in the top 6-only because Derby let us of course-and then to win the playoffs.
Could go for the top 2 but that would mean potentially missing a couple more hard fought backs to the wall wins. |
I'd be interested to know if you agree with me on the order of importance.
1) To win
2) To entertain
3) In the absence of winning or entertaining to have some form of positive to give me hope for the future
Entertainment or good, attractive, passing football isn't being sacrificed for negative, disciplined winning football.
In the absence of a team in the playoffs, I'd like us to be entertaining. We are not.
So with that in mind I'd like some form of hope for the future. We started the season doing well, with kids in the team, playing decent football and scoring goals. That's been replaced by more loans and journeyman freebies, playing hoof ball with no clear game plan beyond trying not to lose.
The closest thing we have to hope for the future is currently wowing Luton, despite a multitude of injuries in our team in the same position.
A young player who looked great at the start of the season has been replaced essentially by a freebie that bottom of the league Birmingham didn't want. That alone sums up Mick in a nutshell. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:09 - Feb 15 with 2769 views | FinidiCentenary |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:59 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
This will blow your mind: It's possible to love Ipswich Town AND to still want to go to the game without the game itself being fourth priority. Look on the bright side, we've got some cracking young talent coming through, Bart has signed a new deal, we've got Huws and Adeyemi to come back next season, signings like Waghorn, Webster and Garner have all been good. We've got a pretty good club badge. The owner is prepared to put his own money in so we can live beyond our means and support one of the best academies in the country. It's not all doom and gloom. |
Cracking young talent that our manager happily loans out to Luton and replaces with a player a club at the bottom of our division deemed not good enough to help their own cause.
We all knew that the winning start to the season that came with plenty of energy and goals was largely a product of Mick having no choice but to use kids.
As soon as he could he's filled the side with journeyman pro's again and shipped the kids out. Classic Mick and surprise surprise, we find the chances have dried up, goals have dried up, wins have dried up.
Mick has a formula that he will stick too whenever he can and it's dull and it doesn't even produce the results it once did. If you go to the game and aren't concerned by that I'd question how much you really do love ITFC. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:10 - Feb 15 with 2767 views | FinidiCentenary |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 16:59 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
This will blow your mind: It's possible to love Ipswich Town AND to still want to go to the game without the game itself being fourth priority. Look on the bright side, we've got some cracking young talent coming through, Bart has signed a new deal, we've got Huws and Adeyemi to come back next season, signings like Waghorn, Webster and Garner have all been good. We've got a pretty good club badge. The owner is prepared to put his own money in so we can live beyond our means and support one of the best academies in the country. It's not all doom and gloom. |
Why would you suspect Huws and Adeyemi would be back next year?
Must be half a dozen times this season they were due to be back already.
I think counting on either next season is extremely naïve when neither can get fit. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:14 - Feb 15 with 2760 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:09 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
Cracking young talent that our manager happily loans out to Luton and replaces with a player a club at the bottom of our division deemed not good enough to help their own cause.
We all knew that the winning start to the season that came with plenty of energy and goals was largely a product of Mick having no choice but to use kids.
As soon as he could he's filled the side with journeyman pro's again and shipped the kids out. Classic Mick and surprise surprise, we find the chances have dried up, goals have dried up, wins have dried up.
Mick has a formula that he will stick too whenever he can and it's dull and it doesn't even produce the results it once did. If you go to the game and aren't concerned by that I'd question how much you really do love ITFC. |
I don't agree with your take on things. Downes is getting valuable first team football, if you see Gleeson as his replacement, Gleeson has played less football in his whole time here than Downes has played in the last 2 weeks. It'll be good for his development being out on loan. As for the rest it's just a load of tired old cliches that I don't agree with, although I do agree that Mick's time here is up and he should go in the summer. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:15 - Feb 15 with 2754 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:10 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
Why would you suspect Huws and Adeyemi would be back next year?
Must be half a dozen times this season they were due to be back already.
I think counting on either next season is extremely naïve when neither can get fit. |
You're a cheery soul. Remind me never to invite you to any sort of happy occasion, ever. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:21 - Feb 15 with 2739 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:05 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
I'd be interested to know if you agree with me on the order of importance.
1) To win
2) To entertain
3) In the absence of winning or entertaining to have some form of positive to give me hope for the future
Entertainment or good, attractive, passing football isn't being sacrificed for negative, disciplined winning football.
In the absence of a team in the playoffs, I'd like us to be entertaining. We are not.
So with that in mind I'd like some form of hope for the future. We started the season doing well, with kids in the team, playing decent football and scoring goals. That's been replaced by more loans and journeyman freebies, playing hoof ball with no clear game plan beyond trying not to lose.
The closest thing we have to hope for the future is currently wowing Luton, despite a multitude of injuries in our team in the same position.
A young player who looked great at the start of the season has been replaced essentially by a freebie that bottom of the league Birmingham didn't want. That alone sums up Mick in a nutshell. |
I would say
1)To win.
99)Anything else.
As I see it spectators want entertainment, supporters want to see their team win.
I accept that if you are getting neither entertainment or wins it is not good and if you get both so much the better but I would imagine that any professional sports person's mindset is first and foremost to win.
Not losing is the first step towards winning so I do not really see why initially aiming not to lose should be seen as such a bad thing. | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:23 - Feb 15 with 2733 views | FinidiCentenary |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:15 - Feb 15 by Herbivore |
You're a cheery soul. Remind me never to invite you to any sort of happy occasion, ever. |
It's not about being cheery is it. It's about being realistic.
Dozzell suffered a serious injury. I would expect him to be back next season and look forward to it, but I also appreciate there's a chance it'll take him longer to get up to the level he was at before, he could suffer a reoccurrence or complications. Personally with it being one injury I expect we'll see plenty of him.
Huws and Adeyemi however have had a number of injuries and complications already. I hope both are available for the whole of next season, but my expectations on those are much lower.
Just like I expect McGoldrick to suffer numerous injuries throughout the season and for Chambers to play his part in most of the season, if not all. Two things that history would suggest are likely. | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:27 - Feb 15 with 2722 views | FinidiCentenary |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:21 - Feb 15 by PJH |
I would say
1)To win.
99)Anything else.
As I see it spectators want entertainment, supporters want to see their team win.
I accept that if you are getting neither entertainment or wins it is not good and if you get both so much the better but I would imagine that any professional sports person's mindset is first and foremost to win.
Not losing is the first step towards winning so I do not really see why initially aiming not to lose should be seen as such a bad thing. |
That's the difference though. Sheffield United go out to win every home and away game. They've drawn 4 all season.
Mick goes out not to lose matches. Mick will get you 2 points from 2 games, Chris Wilder will get you 3 points from 2 games.
That's the difference for me.
You can see it as if you don't concede you don't lose. I see it as if you don't score you don't win.
It should be possible to have more than 2 shots on goal at home to Burton, who've lost 5 on the bounce, by the 85th minute. Likewise, with Rotherham last season who were whipping boys.
The only time we've looked remotely attacking is when Mick has had to play 4 strikers at the start of the season because he preferred doing that to playing youth players with no first team experience. At that time we looked, like Millwall away, like we'd win or lose and not draw and was it 15 games without a draw?
In the second half of the season when he's not had to do that we've drawn 8, which must be half our matches since then! | |
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| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:38 - Feb 15 with 2712 views | PJH |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:27 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
That's the difference though. Sheffield United go out to win every home and away game. They've drawn 4 all season.
Mick goes out not to lose matches. Mick will get you 2 points from 2 games, Chris Wilder will get you 3 points from 2 games.
That's the difference for me.
You can see it as if you don't concede you don't lose. I see it as if you don't score you don't win.
It should be possible to have more than 2 shots on goal at home to Burton, who've lost 5 on the bounce, by the 85th minute. Likewise, with Rotherham last season who were whipping boys.
The only time we've looked remotely attacking is when Mick has had to play 4 strikers at the start of the season because he preferred doing that to playing youth players with no first team experience. At that time we looked, like Millwall away, like we'd win or lose and not draw and was it 15 games without a draw?
In the second half of the season when he's not had to do that we've drawn 8, which must be half our matches since then! |
A couple of posts ago you said we were winning games at the start of the season because MM was playing the kids but in this one you are saying we started the season well because he had to play four strikers because he was reluctant to play young players.
Also using your Sheffield United example either they should now be 15 points above us, their Manager is not as good as you suggest or MM has accidentally won 13 games that he tried to draw. | | | |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 18:00 - Feb 15 with 2688 views | Herbivore |
| At what point do the fans become involved? on 17:27 - Feb 15 by FinidiCentenary |
That's the difference though. Sheffield United go out to win every home and away game. They've drawn 4 all season.
Mick goes out not to lose matches. Mick will get you 2 points from 2 games, Chris Wilder will get you 3 points from 2 games.
That's the difference for me.
You can see it as if you don't concede you don't lose. I see it as if you don't score you don't win.
It should be possible to have more than 2 shots on goal at home to Burton, who've lost 5 on the bounce, by the 85th minute. Likewise, with Rotherham last season who were whipping boys.
The only time we've looked remotely attacking is when Mick has had to play 4 strikers at the start of the season because he preferred doing that to playing youth players with no first team experience. At that time we looked, like Millwall away, like we'd win or lose and not draw and was it 15 games without a draw?
In the second half of the season when he's not had to do that we've drawn 8, which must be half our matches since then! |
Not checked how many Sheffield United have drawn but if it is 4 that's one less than us, we've only drawn 5 games. It's a myth that we set up to draw games and it's also not true that we only played with 4 strikers early on in the season, we've done it loads since (often to our detriment it has to be said). | |
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