| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? 09:36 - Apr 19 with 2661 views | Swansea_Blue |
Sorry, another political thread, but does this numpty have no shame?
"Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit had helped to make the UK more immigration-friendly in the EU. He said a survey earlier this year showed that Britain was the most pro-immigration country in the EU. And he argued that the Brexit vote had contributed to this, saying people were more comfortable with immigration knowing they could now control it."
I missed the interview, but there's a quote here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/apr/19/gove-says-brexit-has-
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 09:39 - Apr 19 with 2628 views | Herbivore |
Gove is a feckless c*nt. |  |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 09:43 - Apr 19 with 2617 views | homer_123 |
The only point I heard him make this morning on Radio 4 that I have an inkling is 100% accurate is that the UK is the most friendly country in the EU for immigration and refugees. We are the most tollerant and accepting of other cultures than any other EU country.
Other than that - he's f*cking awful. |  |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 09:52 - Apr 19 with 2590 views | Steve_M |
Meanwhile Nick Timothy is coming out with this crap:
So May wasn't even in control of her own department? Presumably he thinks he's helping but I think we're beginning to understand why May consistently got such dreadful advice. |  |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:04 - Apr 19 with 2559 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 09:43 - Apr 19 by homer_123 |
The only point I heard him make this morning on Radio 4 that I have an inkling is 100% accurate is that the UK is the most friendly country in the EU for immigration and refugees. We are the most tollerant and accepting of other cultures than any other EU country.
Other than that - he's f*cking awful. |
I'm not sure that the case though. We are politically intolerant - e.g. May's hostile environment policy or whatever it's now called. Do other countries go about things in the same way - this Windrush malarkey has cause ripples in the Eu for example, so it doesn't sound like we're seen in a good light on policy. And that comes after policies deliberately aimed at cutting immigration, affecting families of mixed nationalities, reducing attractiveness of the UK as a place for study and work in the private sector.
If we've got "warmest attitude to migration from outside the EU" as Gove puts it, then that attitude has definitely cooled over the last 4/5 years. The other EU states must be a bunch of real b@stards. But that doesn't tally with their disgust at the Windrush scandal.
And we are amongst the more socially intolerant - as evidence by polls which ask people about people's attitudes to immigration. We tend to do pretty badly on those.
Sounds like a glib soundbite with nothing to back it up. It would be interesting to see this study he refers too, as most previous where we don't fare well are 18 months or older. | |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:09 - Apr 19 with 2539 views | GlasgowBlue |
People in being more in favour of stuff when they see it is being properly controlled for the benefit of both the immigrants and the indigenous population shocker.
Seems fairly logical to me.
Gove, in Environment, also seems to be the only cabinet minister who is getting on with his job with any sort of competence, but he suffers from what Lucan has earlier attributed to Trump. People won’t give him credit because if who he is and not what he is doing. |  |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:18 - Apr 19 with 2512 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:09 - Apr 19 by GlasgowBlue |
People in being more in favour of stuff when they see it is being properly controlled for the benefit of both the immigrants and the indigenous population shocker.
Seems fairly logical to me.
Gove, in Environment, also seems to be the only cabinet minister who is getting on with his job with any sort of competence, but he suffers from what Lucan has earlier attributed to Trump. People won’t give him credit because if who he is and not what he is doing. |
That might be the soundbite, and yes it's sensible in principle, but it doesn't seem to actually tally with reality. As I say, maybe things have changed drastically recently?
I wish he would get on with his job rather than poke his nose into this. He does appear to be not fecking things upas badly as his record would suggest. Some of the headlines coming out have been good to hear. I wish he'd get a handle on fracking v renewables though - the indecision is hamstringing the renewable industry. This is a prime areas where we could do more to capitalise on our world-class research, if we wanted to. | |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:34 - Apr 19 with 2490 views | homer_123 |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:04 - Apr 19 by Swansea_Blue |
I'm not sure that the case though. We are politically intolerant - e.g. May's hostile environment policy or whatever it's now called. Do other countries go about things in the same way - this Windrush malarkey has cause ripples in the Eu for example, so it doesn't sound like we're seen in a good light on policy. And that comes after policies deliberately aimed at cutting immigration, affecting families of mixed nationalities, reducing attractiveness of the UK as a place for study and work in the private sector.
If we've got "warmest attitude to migration from outside the EU" as Gove puts it, then that attitude has definitely cooled over the last 4/5 years. The other EU states must be a bunch of real b@stards. But that doesn't tally with their disgust at the Windrush scandal.
And we are amongst the more socially intolerant - as evidence by polls which ask people about people's attitudes to immigration. We tend to do pretty badly on those.
Sounds like a glib soundbite with nothing to back it up. It would be interesting to see this study he refers too, as most previous where we don't fare well are 18 months or older. |
I'd disagree - having spent time in many of the EU countries (we do a lot of work across the EU, Germany, Italy, Romania and Poland are regular haunts), I can safely say they are both politically and locally way less tolerant than we are.
Polls and reality are two very different things though, as evidenced by Windrush, when it comes down to it - I haven't met anyone that thinks these people shouldn't have the right to reside in the UK, even if the same people think we might need to control immigration more.
Saying that, my personal perspective is that we don't do nearly enough for refugees in this country. We should a heck of a lot more than we do to be honest. [Post edited 19 Apr 2018 10:37]
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:47 - Apr 19 with 2449 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:34 - Apr 19 by homer_123 |
I'd disagree - having spent time in many of the EU countries (we do a lot of work across the EU, Germany, Italy, Romania and Poland are regular haunts), I can safely say they are both politically and locally way less tolerant than we are.
Polls and reality are two very different things though, as evidenced by Windrush, when it comes down to it - I haven't met anyone that thinks these people shouldn't have the right to reside in the UK, even if the same people think we might need to control immigration more.
Saying that, my personal perspective is that we don't do nearly enough for refugees in this country. We should a heck of a lot more than we do to be honest. [Post edited 19 Apr 2018 10:37]
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Interesting. Eastern European countries have always had a reputation for intolerance, but I can't say I've noticed it in the bulk of the other European countries I've worked in/visited. I'm in a very liberal, multi-cultural sector though (research). | |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:31 - Apr 19 with 2398 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:47 - Apr 19 by Swansea_Blue |
Interesting. Eastern European countries have always had a reputation for intolerance, but I can't say I've noticed it in the bulk of the other European countries I've worked in/visited. I'm in a very liberal, multi-cultural sector though (research). |
Running street battles between German skinheads and Muslim immigrants. Regular firebombing of immigrant centres in Germany. French police forcibly removing Muslim women from beaches for wearing a Burkini. | |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:33 - Apr 19 with 2384 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:31 - Apr 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Running street battles between German skinheads and Muslim immigrants. Regular firebombing of immigrant centres in Germany. French police forcibly removing Muslim women from beaches for wearing a Burkini. |
We were talking about personal experiences not news headlines. | |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:34 - Apr 19 with 2376 views | No9 |
Collectively the current cabinet is the biggest bunch of liars ever assembled in one unit.
Every time their lips move they lie -
As taxparyers we deserve better. |  | | |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:37 - Apr 19 with 2374 views | Steve_M |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:09 - Apr 19 by GlasgowBlue |
People in being more in favour of stuff when they see it is being properly controlled for the benefit of both the immigrants and the indigenous population shocker.
Seems fairly logical to me.
Gove, in Environment, also seems to be the only cabinet minister who is getting on with his job with any sort of competence, but he suffers from what Lucan has earlier attributed to Trump. People won’t give him credit because if who he is and not what he is doing. |
There's an enormous difference between the micro and the macro level though: people re generally sympathetic to individual migrants, especially those with a story, but at the aggregate level the country is relentlessly hostile.
That ranges from public opinion that governments have been too willing to indulge, constant demonisation of immigrants in certain newspapers and a government culture which, at root, is predisposed to think all migrants are pretending and shouldn't be here. The same logic applies to people claiming benefit and has underpinned harsh cuts over the last eight years.
So, Gove is part-right but missing the bigger picture here (probably to avoid any blame attaching to him for the rhetoric of the referendum campaign).
And FWIW, Gove is at least a politician prepared to think originally and differently. He should have been allowed to continue correcting Grayling's mess at the MoJ and has come out with some sensible pronouncements in his current job. | |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:41 - Apr 19 with 2363 views | No9 |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:31 - Apr 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Running street battles between German skinheads and Muslim immigrants. Regular firebombing of immigrant centres in Germany. French police forcibly removing Muslim women from beaches for wearing a Burkini. |
Which news agency does that come from, do you have a link- please. | | | |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:46 - Apr 19 with 2355 views | Swansea_Blue |
So some information is starting to come out on the social attitudes part of this.
It seems like public attitudes have softened, although still a very strong anti-immigration sentiment amongst Leavers and school leaver education levels. Very small, time-restricted datasets, but the author seems confident in the pattern. The reasons for this would be fascinating - is it because immigration is no longer on the media agenda daily? Or as GB says because people feel the situation is under control (even though policy hasn’t changed)?. Did the unexpected ref result itself affect people’s views on this? Or did the widely reported increase in racial attacks shame people into thinking about it more?
Nothing on our position relative to other countries here, but interesting and surprising nonetheless (to me anyway).
https://medium.com/@robfordmancs/how-have-attitudes-to-immigration-changed-since
Does this give the government a green light to soften their anti-immigrant policies? | |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:57 - Apr 19 with 2336 views | lowhouseblue |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 09:52 - Apr 19 by Steve_M |
Meanwhile Nick Timothy is coming out with this crap:
So May wasn't even in control of her own department? Presumably he thinks he's helping but I think we're beginning to understand why May consistently got such dreadful advice. |
i don't think anyone ever has been in control of the home office. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 12:23 - Apr 19 with 2313 views | No9 |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 11:46 - Apr 19 by Swansea_Blue |
So some information is starting to come out on the social attitudes part of this.
It seems like public attitudes have softened, although still a very strong anti-immigration sentiment amongst Leavers and school leaver education levels. Very small, time-restricted datasets, but the author seems confident in the pattern. The reasons for this would be fascinating - is it because immigration is no longer on the media agenda daily? Or as GB says because people feel the situation is under control (even though policy hasn’t changed)?. Did the unexpected ref result itself affect people’s views on this? Or did the widely reported increase in racial attacks shame people into thinking about it more?
Nothing on our position relative to other countries here, but interesting and surprising nonetheless (to me anyway).
https://medium.com/@robfordmancs/how-have-attitudes-to-immigration-changed-since
Does this give the government a green light to soften their anti-immigrant policies? |
I'm not convinced this governments policies are consistent in any way.
From the HoP website it says some of the history on certain H.O. sites has been closed?
Governments pass laws to suit their needs & contrary to what a lot of people think the EU countries do handle many matters differently. As an example when the French police cleared wearers of the bhurka off French beaches they were doing no more than what was required under a law passed in teh French parliament.
Where I live there are not enough polcie to record crime & the PCC has removed ALL of the Community Police- with the approval of the local MP's (except one) & the H.O. | | | |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 13:05 - Apr 19 with 2263 views | factual_blue |
| Good lordy: did Gove really say this? on 10:34 - Apr 19 by homer_123 |
I'd disagree - having spent time in many of the EU countries (we do a lot of work across the EU, Germany, Italy, Romania and Poland are regular haunts), I can safely say they are both politically and locally way less tolerant than we are.
Polls and reality are two very different things though, as evidenced by Windrush, when it comes down to it - I haven't met anyone that thinks these people shouldn't have the right to reside in the UK, even if the same people think we might need to control immigration more.
Saying that, my personal perspective is that we don't do nearly enough for refugees in this country. We should a heck of a lot more than we do to be honest. [Post edited 19 Apr 2018 10:37]
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That tolerance and generosity of spirit is what it really means uphold British values. |  |
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