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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. 20:18 - Jun 13 with 74385 viewsITFC_Forever

FFS.

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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 10:04 - Jun 15 with 2708 viewsBrixtonBlue

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 09:31 - Jun 15 by chicoazul

I dealt with each of his perfectly valid points (and yours) in my own way and made my own arguments, which everyone will have their opinions about of course. He rudely kept calling me mate after I asked him not to so I blocked him. It's a shame the debate descended to the level it did, not the one between you and I by the way that isn't a shame, but the one between he and me.


Bit OTT to put him on ignore. If you'd not mentioned the mate bit it would've died instantly then.

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 10:47 - Jun 15 with 2677 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 09:06 - Jun 15 by monytowbray

When are you going to provide evidence behind your claims that political correctness has increased knife crime?


I’m guessing he is alluding to the increase in knife crime since stop and search has been all but abandoned
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 10:49 - Jun 15 with 2675 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 23:18 - Jun 14 by Herbivore

Alcohol is a terrible drug. It's one of very few drugs that are physically as well as psychologically addictive. It's alongside heroin and other opioids in that regard. A full blown alcoholic can die if they try going cold turkey. But it's fine, booze is legal and everyone does it so it must be okay.

I say this as someone who very much loves drinking by the way, just highlighting some people's inconsistencies on the subject.
[Post edited 14 Jun 2018 23:19]


As soon as dope is mentioned some idiot says “what about alcohol”. Alcohol is a separate discussion altogether and nothing to do with what’s being discussed
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 10:57 - Jun 15 with 2657 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 07:04 - Jun 15 by Herbivore

I'd say most people change over an 18 year period.


People become more serious. Other than that there isn’t a lot of change.
Agree he should be more specific about what change he’s talking about though.
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 10:59 - Jun 15 with 2654 viewsgiant_stow

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 10:49 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

As soon as dope is mentioned some idiot says “what about alcohol”. Alcohol is a separate discussion altogether and nothing to do with what’s being discussed


'Some idiot'? But you're not angry... oh no. Alcohol is completely relevant to answering the point that drug users are selfish and should stop for the good of society.

Mr, I wouldn't want to join the gang against you (i believed your party agro / black man bump thing and have agreed with your points about stop and search too), but you're getting spiteful on this thread in several places - play nicely yeah?

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:05 - Jun 15 with 2648 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 10:59 - Jun 15 by giant_stow

'Some idiot'? But you're not angry... oh no. Alcohol is completely relevant to answering the point that drug users are selfish and should stop for the good of society.

Mr, I wouldn't want to join the gang against you (i believed your party agro / black man bump thing and have agreed with your points about stop and search too), but you're getting spiteful on this thread in several places - play nicely yeah?


But some idiot always does trot that line out like they are equivalent. Like drinking coffee and smoking crack are identical
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:08 - Jun 15 with 2641 viewsHerbivore

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:05 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

But some idiot always does trot that line out like they are equivalent. Like drinking coffee and smoking crack are identical


You're right, we shouldn't be comparing a relatively benign drug like cannabis to a physically addictive killer like alcohol.

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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:11 - Jun 15 with 2641 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:08 - Jun 15 by Herbivore

You're right, we shouldn't be comparing a relatively benign drug like cannabis to a physically addictive killer like alcohol.


That’s fine with me. Cannabis is far from benign though. It permanently rewires the brain to look at everything in a dark way.

I can see why users don’t want that to be true though. I can understand that
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:13 - Jun 15 with 2634 viewsHerbivore

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:11 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

That’s fine with me. Cannabis is far from benign though. It permanently rewires the brain to look at everything in a dark way.

I can see why users don’t want that to be true though. I can understand that


Lolz. Cannabis can cause mental health problems but in limited cases, the latest research suggests a genetic predisposition.

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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:16 - Jun 15 with 2628 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:13 - Jun 15 by Herbivore

Lolz. Cannabis can cause mental health problems but in limited cases, the latest research suggests a genetic predisposition.


There is limited research into it and you are talking about the most extreme cases. Truth is all users are affected to a degree.

All the people I knew who never grew out of it and have been going solid for over 20 years are thick as sh1t now by the way
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:01 - Jun 15 with 2594 viewsHerbivore

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:16 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

There is limited research into it and you are talking about the most extreme cases. Truth is all users are affected to a degree.

All the people I knew who never grew out of it and have been going solid for over 20 years are thick as sh1t now by the way


Well if you know some people that's me convinced, sound evidence there for sure.

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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:07 - Jun 15 with 2583 viewsSpruceMoose

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:11 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

That’s fine with me. Cannabis is far from benign though. It permanently rewires the brain to look at everything in a dark way.

I can see why users don’t want that to be true though. I can understand that


Lollerskates.

This is a classic case of old man yells at cloud.

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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:09 - Jun 15 with 2581 viewsSpruceMoose

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 11:16 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

There is limited research into it and you are talking about the most extreme cases. Truth is all users are affected to a degree.

All the people I knew who never grew out of it and have been going solid for over 20 years are thick as sh1t now by the way


You seem very obsessed with others folk's intelligence you know...

Seems kind of... Insecure?

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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:20 - Jun 15 with 2574 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:01 - Jun 15 by Herbivore

Well if you know some people that's me convinced, sound evidence there for sure.


and your evidence that it has no long term effect is what?
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:40 - Jun 15 with 2554 viewseireblue

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 10:49 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

As soon as dope is mentioned some idiot says “what about alcohol”. Alcohol is a separate discussion altogether and nothing to do with what’s being discussed


I think that statement demonstrates where I think you miss a crucial point.

By using terms such as alcohol and drugs, you are not dealing in an abstracted logical and rational argument.
By differentiating on such terms you will bring in irrational thought and assumptions.

The thread started out about violence, and why we have gangs etc..

Has there been violent and stabby gangs in the past that are not associated with illegal substances but illegal practises. Yes.

Has there been violent and stabby gangs in the past associated with different illegal substances. Yes.

An interesting question would be, if the state makes something illegal that is also desirable by some members of society, do criminal gangs form around such supply chains, are those gangs violent, could they use knives.

Hmmm, could be that being in a violent and stabby gang does not seem to be dependent on an association with a particular substance, but could be associated with an illegal supply chain.

A wider societal question could why do someone people choose or end up in a criminal supply chain, rather than become a dental hygienist.

A rational argument would I think then tend to be, what is it that the state is making illegal, why, and is the consequence of making something illegal justified knowing that some damage will occur. In that last statement I am of course using damage to include things like funding adequate policing, rather than reducing taxes or buying kittens for all citizens.

And of course there could also be very good agreed moral or ethical reasons for a state to make something illegal.

Making child prostitution illegal, is a very good thing. The fact a criminal supply chain will emerge and should be policed is of course a necessary thing to do, and should not stop someone making that illegal.

So I think it is absolutely the correct to ask comparative questions about illegal supply chains and gangs, and what is being made illegal.

Alcohol is deemed by society to be okay. It does have issues that it causes, very many people enjoy it without negative consequences to other human beings. As is betting. As does eating lots of cup cakes to obesity with all the dental issues that may also ensue by eating lots of soft sugary things.......

Seems to me you and possible Chico are in the classic position of staring at a tree, and you haven't yet noticed the forest.

If for argument sake, it is totally possible for humans to consume "drugs", in the same way it is possible for humans to consume alcohol and cup cakes.

Then who is really responsible for all the deaths and violence by making a supply chain illegal?
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:51 - Jun 15 with 2534 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:40 - Jun 15 by eireblue

I think that statement demonstrates where I think you miss a crucial point.

By using terms such as alcohol and drugs, you are not dealing in an abstracted logical and rational argument.
By differentiating on such terms you will bring in irrational thought and assumptions.

The thread started out about violence, and why we have gangs etc..

Has there been violent and stabby gangs in the past that are not associated with illegal substances but illegal practises. Yes.

Has there been violent and stabby gangs in the past associated with different illegal substances. Yes.

An interesting question would be, if the state makes something illegal that is also desirable by some members of society, do criminal gangs form around such supply chains, are those gangs violent, could they use knives.

Hmmm, could be that being in a violent and stabby gang does not seem to be dependent on an association with a particular substance, but could be associated with an illegal supply chain.

A wider societal question could why do someone people choose or end up in a criminal supply chain, rather than become a dental hygienist.

A rational argument would I think then tend to be, what is it that the state is making illegal, why, and is the consequence of making something illegal justified knowing that some damage will occur. In that last statement I am of course using damage to include things like funding adequate policing, rather than reducing taxes or buying kittens for all citizens.

And of course there could also be very good agreed moral or ethical reasons for a state to make something illegal.

Making child prostitution illegal, is a very good thing. The fact a criminal supply chain will emerge and should be policed is of course a necessary thing to do, and should not stop someone making that illegal.

So I think it is absolutely the correct to ask comparative questions about illegal supply chains and gangs, and what is being made illegal.

Alcohol is deemed by society to be okay. It does have issues that it causes, very many people enjoy it without negative consequences to other human beings. As is betting. As does eating lots of cup cakes to obesity with all the dental issues that may also ensue by eating lots of soft sugary things.......

Seems to me you and possible Chico are in the classic position of staring at a tree, and you haven't yet noticed the forest.

If for argument sake, it is totally possible for humans to consume "drugs", in the same way it is possible for humans to consume alcohol and cup cakes.

Then who is really responsible for all the deaths and violence by making a supply chain illegal?


I’ve made it very clear. Smoking has a pronounced effect on personality in the short term (as well as long term damage). That effect will make people who are prone to violent behaviour more violent. Even a high coffee intake will make people more irritable... serious cannabis use puts that off the scale and we are talking about youths that smoke a lot.
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:57 - Jun 15 with 2527 viewseireblue

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:51 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

I’ve made it very clear. Smoking has a pronounced effect on personality in the short term (as well as long term damage). That effect will make people who are prone to violent behaviour more violent. Even a high coffee intake will make people more irritable... serious cannabis use puts that off the scale and we are talking about youths that smoke a lot.


So you police violent behaviour, in people that are prone to violence, that drink to much.

You don't make coffee illegal.
You don't make Sherry illegal.

You have made my point for me.
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:00 - Jun 15 with 2522 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 12:57 - Jun 15 by eireblue

So you police violent behaviour, in people that are prone to violence, that drink to much.

You don't make coffee illegal.
You don't make Sherry illegal.

You have made my point for me.


Alcohol may have played a part in the recent stabbings too. When combined with cannabis use
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:07 - Jun 15 with 2512 viewsSpruceMoose

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:00 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

Alcohol may have played a part in the recent stabbings too. When combined with cannabis use


Keep digging!

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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:11 - Jun 15 with 2513 viewseireblue

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:00 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

Alcohol may have played a part in the recent stabbings too. When combined with cannabis use


Maybe cup cakes and coffee as well.

Can we definitively say there was no caffeine in the system.

Maybe it was a lack of sugar brought on by not having enough cup cakes, people that eat lots of sugar can get irritable when blood glucose drops.

But it does seem that you are starting to agree with me and the other idiots you mentioned above, that it does seem relevant to bring alcohol to a drugs discussion, as a useful tool to separate the forest from the weed.
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:17 - Jun 15 with 2504 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:11 - Jun 15 by eireblue

Maybe cup cakes and coffee as well.

Can we definitively say there was no caffeine in the system.

Maybe it was a lack of sugar brought on by not having enough cup cakes, people that eat lots of sugar can get irritable when blood glucose drops.

But it does seem that you are starting to agree with me and the other idiots you mentioned above, that it does seem relevant to bring alcohol to a drugs discussion, as a useful tool to separate the forest from the weed.


No, the temper tantrums are driven by cannabis use. That’s the main cause without any doubt
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:21 - Jun 15 with 2498 viewsSpruceMoose

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:17 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

No, the temper tantrums are driven by cannabis use. That’s the main cause without any doubt



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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:35 - Jun 15 with 2482 viewseireblue

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:17 - Jun 15 by FrowsyArmLarry

No, the temper tantrums are driven by cannabis use. That’s the main cause without any doubt


Lots of things cause temper tantrums.

Irresponsible consumption of Cortados and Almond Croissants can lead to a temper tantrum, but no-one is going to make Caffe Nero illegal.

A temper tantrum does not in itself lead to violence against another human being.

At the moment your argument has now been reduced to ".....but its cannabis...."

And so far you have called other people idiots, but I don't think you have yet come up with a single solid thought through set of logical rational arguments, that justify the name calling.

Consumption of Substance A does not necessarily lead to damage to another human being.
Irresponsible and over use of Substance A, in some circumstances can lead to damage to another human being.

Consumption of Substance B does not necessarily lead to damage to another human being.
Irresponsible and over use of Substance B, in some circumstances can lead to damage to another human being.

So have a war on B, that results in lots of deaths, and police A.

Which do you choose, coffee or croissants, for A and B.
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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:36 - Jun 15 with 2478 viewsSpruceMoose

Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:35 - Jun 15 by eireblue

Lots of things cause temper tantrums.

Irresponsible consumption of Cortados and Almond Croissants can lead to a temper tantrum, but no-one is going to make Caffe Nero illegal.

A temper tantrum does not in itself lead to violence against another human being.

At the moment your argument has now been reduced to ".....but its cannabis...."

And so far you have called other people idiots, but I don't think you have yet come up with a single solid thought through set of logical rational arguments, that justify the name calling.

Consumption of Substance A does not necessarily lead to damage to another human being.
Irresponsible and over use of Substance A, in some circumstances can lead to damage to another human being.

Consumption of Substance B does not necessarily lead to damage to another human being.
Irresponsible and over use of Substance B, in some circumstances can lead to damage to another human being.

So have a war on B, that results in lots of deaths, and police A.

Which do you choose, coffee or croissants, for A and B.


Can I have a muffin instead please?

If not, I may explode in rage. Fair warning.

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Another stabbing apparently - Ravenswood McDonalds. on 13:36 - Jun 15 with 2478 viewsmonytowbray

I believe we are now in "if I say it enough times it'll make it true" territory.

Causation and correlation is all over the shop here. As someone said earlier, Nic Cage and swimming pools.

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