| The worlds going down a very dark road 11:32 - Jun 21 with 17883 views | hype313 |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 12:26 - Jun 21 with 7198 views | stig4532 |
Perhaps if the political establishment actually sorted the problems these groups are talking about, they wouldn't have any reason to exist. |  | | |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 12:33 - Jun 21 with 7170 views | clive_baker |
I didn't even realise Sweden were in the EU.
That's why my political opinions aren't worth the paper they're written on. |  |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 14:38 - Jun 21 with 7034 views | crunchie1978 |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 12:26 - Jun 21 by stig4532 |
Perhaps if the political establishment actually sorted the problems these groups are talking about, they wouldn't have any reason to exist. |
Correct....
These governments are making their own monsters by ignoring issues that effect many of the people living there.
Germany 1930s |  | | |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 14:40 - Jun 21 with 7028 views | SpruceMoose |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 12:26 - Jun 21 by stig4532 |
Perhaps if the political establishment actually sorted the problems these groups are talking about, they wouldn't have any reason to exist. |
Bigotry doesn't need a reason. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 14:47 - Jun 21 with 7006 views | J2BLUE |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 14:40 - Jun 21 by SpruceMoose |
Bigotry doesn't need a reason. |
He has a point. Not excusing those views but look at the UK. Four million votes for UKIP, no MPs.
If people actually gave them a platform and a voice instead of deliberately sidelining them they might not feel like they are powerless in a relentless pursuit of 'progression'. |  |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 14:55 - Jun 21 with 6977 views | SpruceMoose |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 14:47 - Jun 21 by J2BLUE |
He has a point. Not excusing those views but look at the UK. Four million votes for UKIP, no MPs.
If people actually gave them a platform and a voice instead of deliberately sidelining them they might not feel like they are powerless in a relentless pursuit of 'progression'. |
Give them a platform? They have endless tabloids echoing their viewpoint every day. No end of websites popping up that align with their worldview.
If there's a viewpoint which is sidelined from British political discourse then it's not the right wing's. I don't understand the claim that these people don't have a platform at all. They have one. They just don't like people disagreeing with them. [Post edited 21 Jun 2018 14:57]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:00 - Jun 21 with 6950 views | Rob88 |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 12:26 - Jun 21 by stig4532 |
Perhaps if the political establishment actually sorted the problems these groups are talking about, they wouldn't have any reason to exist. |
Problem is to do that you need to have grown up conversations which isn’t something society is capable of (our society anyway).
In addition rather than address ignorance and enlighten people it’s often easier and less time consuming to call them a Nazi, fascist or racist and consider yourself morally superior. | | | |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:04 - Jun 21 with 6940 views | SpruceMoose |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:00 - Jun 21 by Rob88 |
Problem is to do that you need to have grown up conversations which isn’t something society is capable of (our society anyway).
In addition rather than address ignorance and enlighten people it’s often easier and less time consuming to call them a Nazi, fascist or racist and consider yourself morally superior. |
How do you enlighten and educate people when they have their fingers in their ears? It's fair to say these people are actively resistant to education and enlightenment. They don't want their viewpoint challenged or changed. Especially now they feel emboldened. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:32 - Jun 21 with 6900 views | Rob88 |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:04 - Jun 21 by SpruceMoose |
How do you enlighten and educate people when they have their fingers in their ears? It's fair to say these people are actively resistant to education and enlightenment. They don't want their viewpoint challenged or changed. Especially now they feel emboldened. |
I agree it is very difficult but I also think that could be said for both extremes.
I recall a documentary I have seen where a far right activist was given the opportunity to interact with immigrants and listen to their stories and the crux of it was he revoked his affiliation of the far right group and his views completely changed.....it’s ignorance. I cannot remember what it is called but if I come across it I will share it. | | | |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:41 - Jun 21 with 6879 views | Herbivore |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:32 - Jun 21 by Rob88 |
I agree it is very difficult but I also think that could be said for both extremes.
I recall a documentary I have seen where a far right activist was given the opportunity to interact with immigrants and listen to their stories and the crux of it was he revoked his affiliation of the far right group and his views completely changed.....it’s ignorance. I cannot remember what it is called but if I come across it I will share it. |
Tommy Robinson did something similar for about 5 minutes. |  |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:49 - Jun 21 with 6859 views | J2BLUE |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 14:55 - Jun 21 by SpruceMoose |
Give them a platform? They have endless tabloids echoing their viewpoint every day. No end of websites popping up that align with their worldview.
If there's a viewpoint which is sidelined from British political discourse then it's not the right wing's. I don't understand the claim that these people don't have a platform at all. They have one. They just don't like people disagreeing with them. [Post edited 21 Jun 2018 14:57]
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A legitimate mainstream platform so they can be knocked down. | |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:53 - Jun 21 with 6852 views | SpruceMoose |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:49 - Jun 21 by J2BLUE |
A legitimate mainstream platform so they can be knocked down. |
What does this platform look like, because I'm not understanding what you're imagining?
I would give a word of caution. The giving of a equal, legitimate platform to climate change change deniers by the likes of the BBC has resulted in climate change denial being considered a legitimate viewpoint by many. That's where that road can lead.
We should be careful about giving legitimacy to illegitimate worldviews in the name of balance. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:53 - Jun 21 with 6852 views | Herbivore |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:49 - Jun 21 by J2BLUE |
A legitimate mainstream platform so they can be knocked down. |
I'd argue UKIP were frequently given way more mainstream media attention and a greater platform than they deserved. | |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 16:00 - Jun 21 with 6825 views | J2BLUE |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:53 - Jun 21 by SpruceMoose |
What does this platform look like, because I'm not understanding what you're imagining?
I would give a word of caution. The giving of a equal, legitimate platform to climate change change deniers by the likes of the BBC has resulted in climate change denial being considered a legitimate viewpoint by many. That's where that road can lead.
We should be careful about giving legitimacy to illegitimate worldviews in the name of balance. |
Not sure you can put climate change deniers in with people who have legitimate concerns about things like immigration/globalism. People have had immigrants come in and undercut their wages or had their jobs moved abroad due to a cheaper workforce. Some concerns are legitimate and I just think we need to listen a bit more. Instead we have people calling them racist as soon as immigration is mentioned.
I hate posting like this. Feels like i'm arguing for their views. I'm not. I just think they deserve to be represented and things would be better in time if they did have a voice in parliament etc. | |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 16:31 - Jun 21 with 6761 views | Rob88 |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 15:53 - Jun 21 by SpruceMoose |
What does this platform look like, because I'm not understanding what you're imagining?
I would give a word of caution. The giving of a equal, legitimate platform to climate change change deniers by the likes of the BBC has resulted in climate change denial being considered a legitimate viewpoint by many. That's where that road can lead.
We should be careful about giving legitimacy to illegitimate worldviews in the name of balance. |
Is the alternative not censorship? | | | |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:18 - Jun 21 with 6677 views | Herbivore |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 16:00 - Jun 21 by J2BLUE |
Not sure you can put climate change deniers in with people who have legitimate concerns about things like immigration/globalism. People have had immigrants come in and undercut their wages or had their jobs moved abroad due to a cheaper workforce. Some concerns are legitimate and I just think we need to listen a bit more. Instead we have people calling them racist as soon as immigration is mentioned.
I hate posting like this. Feels like i'm arguing for their views. I'm not. I just think they deserve to be represented and things would be better in time if they did have a voice in parliament etc. |
The impact of immigration on wages is minimal, so to describe that as a legitimate concern seems odd. The problem is that people hold views on certain things that are based on a feeling and not evidence, when presented with evidence they are often reluctant to let go of that feeling. It's hard to reason with such views when they aren't based on rational debate and the question arises how much of a platform is legitimate to give to views that are not well-founded and have been debunked. | |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:20 - Jun 21 with 6671 views | Herbivore |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 16:31 - Jun 21 by Rob88 |
Is the alternative not censorship? |
No. | |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:33 - Jun 21 with 6634 views | HennikerBlu |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:20 - Jun 21 by Herbivore |
No. |
Surely you are kidding? Are you saying that only truths that those of a certain persuasion accept are the only ones that should be heard?
Edit: Not that I don't think there is a serious issue with climate change, but that is surely about winning the argument as opposed to silencing views and defining the narrative.
[Post edited 21 Jun 2018 17:37]
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:38 - Jun 21 with 6615 views | Herbivore |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:33 - Jun 21 by HennikerBlu |
Surely you are kidding? Are you saying that only truths that those of a certain persuasion accept are the only ones that should be heard?
Edit: Not that I don't think there is a serious issue with climate change, but that is surely about winning the argument as opposed to silencing views and defining the narrative.
[Post edited 21 Jun 2018 17:37]
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No, I'm not kidding. There is a difference between censorship and not providing an equal platform to all possible viewpoints. Nobody is preventing flat Earthers from being flat Earthers but that doesn't mean that the BBC should give them equal airtime as actual scientists using actual evidence. | |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:43 - Jun 21 with 6604 views | Herbivore |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:18 - Jun 21 by Herbivore |
The impact of immigration on wages is minimal, so to describe that as a legitimate concern seems odd. The problem is that people hold views on certain things that are based on a feeling and not evidence, when presented with evidence they are often reluctant to let go of that feeling. It's hard to reason with such views when they aren't based on rational debate and the question arises how much of a platform is legitimate to give to views that are not well-founded and have been debunked. |
And with a single arrow Benters aptly demonstrates my point. | |
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:54 - Jun 21 with 6572 views | HennikerBlu |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:38 - Jun 21 by Herbivore |
No, I'm not kidding. There is a difference between censorship and not providing an equal platform to all possible viewpoints. Nobody is preventing flat Earthers from being flat Earthers but that doesn't mean that the BBC should give them equal airtime as actual scientists using actual evidence. |
I certainly have not picked up that there is anyone winning the debate other than those that argue that climate change is a problem and I am in agreement on that. The majority of Governments accept that too.
However, I do have a concern when people are not open to discuss aspects of a debate that may disagree with their view. You demonstrate your dismissive approach by using the term 'flat earthers'. Can you point me in the direction of someone that has presented poor science and taken a 'flat Earth' approach, which has been presented by the BBC unequivocally? Genuine question | | | |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 18:01 - Jun 21 with 6546 views | Herbivore |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 17:54 - Jun 21 by HennikerBlu |
I certainly have not picked up that there is anyone winning the debate other than those that argue that climate change is a problem and I am in agreement on that. The majority of Governments accept that too.
However, I do have a concern when people are not open to discuss aspects of a debate that may disagree with their view. You demonstrate your dismissive approach by using the term 'flat earthers'. Can you point me in the direction of someone that has presented poor science and taken a 'flat Earth' approach, which has been presented by the BBC unequivocally? Genuine question |
I don't think you're quite grasping the difference between censorship and not offering a platform, which my example was intended to highlight. Let me know which bit you're struggling with and I'll see if I can assist. [Post edited 21 Jun 2018 18:03]
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 18:09 - Jun 21 with 6525 views | HennikerBlu |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 18:01 - Jun 21 by Herbivore |
I don't think you're quite grasping the difference between censorship and not offering a platform, which my example was intended to highlight. Let me know which bit you're struggling with and I'll see if I can assist. [Post edited 21 Jun 2018 18:03]
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I asked you to provide an example where the BBC has presented an argument against man made climate change, which it has presented unequivocally. I appreciate the groups that are arguing and investing a lot of money into countering the arguments for industrial and business reasons and therefore they will buy media platforms.
Let me know which bit of that you don't understand?
I generally like what you have to say so I would appreciate that we can conduct this with respect. Thank you. [Post edited 21 Jun 2018 18:10]
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| The worlds going down a very dark road on 18:15 - Jun 21 with 6504 views | Herbivore |
| The worlds going down a very dark road on 18:09 - Jun 21 by HennikerBlu |
I asked you to provide an example where the BBC has presented an argument against man made climate change, which it has presented unequivocally. I appreciate the groups that are arguing and investing a lot of money into countering the arguments for industrial and business reasons and therefore they will buy media platforms.
Let me know which bit of that you don't understand?
I generally like what you have to say so I would appreciate that we can conduct this with respect. Thank you. [Post edited 21 Jun 2018 18:10]
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I don't think I've ever claimed the BBC have ever unequivocally presented the argument that climate change isn't man made. My point is that I don't see an issue with not giving a platform to that view and that not giving a platform differs from censorship.
Apologies for the previous reply, it was uncalled for. [Post edited 21 Jun 2018 19:00]
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