| Interesting article on outsourcing on 10:34 - Jul 18 with 1322 views | Darth_Koont |
It's one of the things that I really don't get in our society. We need cleaners and similar "low-level" menial workers so that society works and we all feel better — but we don't just pretend they don't matter, we seem to actively punish the people who do these jobs.
They say you can judge a society by how it treats its poorest. Well ... |  |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 10:57 - Jul 18 with 1280 views | CoachRob |
Just shows that many overpaid university chancellors and vice-chancellors don't provide efficiently run uni's or provide dignity in work. Time to properly clamped down on excessive pay and start paying those who do necessary work at decent wage. |  | | |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:37 - Jul 18 with 1243 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 10:34 - Jul 18 by Darth_Koont |
It's one of the things that I really don't get in our society. We need cleaners and similar "low-level" menial workers so that society works and we all feel better — but we don't just pretend they don't matter, we seem to actively punish the people who do these jobs.
They say you can judge a society by how it treats its poorest. Well ... |
Given the poorest in our society receive free health care, free primary & secondary education, free library museum & public park access, and income support I think one can judge things quite favourably. We do however need to provide more council housing because as you rightly say we need bus drivers cleaners and porters et al. |  |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:38 - Jul 18 with 1239 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 10:57 - Jul 18 by CoachRob |
Just shows that many overpaid university chancellors and vice-chancellors don't provide efficiently run uni's or provide dignity in work. Time to properly clamped down on excessive pay and start paying those who do necessary work at decent wage. |
It does seem that some Chancellors are paid absurdly high wages. | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:42 - Jul 18 with 1232 views | Darth_Koont |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:37 - Jul 18 by chicoazul |
Given the poorest in our society receive free health care, free primary & secondary education, free library museum & public park access, and income support I think one can judge things quite favourably. We do however need to provide more council housing because as you rightly say we need bus drivers cleaners and porters et al. |
Given that our poverty figures and other social, health and education metrics are some of the worst in Europe, then I think you're aiming way too low.
We have a strong economy but we don't have a strong society to match. | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:48 - Jul 18 with 1222 views | BlueBadger |
It's notable that the region's(and indeed, one of the country's) best-rated hospital, WSH, use very, very few outside contractors. The result is a joined-up, well motivated workplace with its employees all mostly pulling in one direction.
Outsourcing reduces the price of services but often makes them cost more in the long run. [Post edited 18 Jul 2018 18:33]
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:50 - Jul 18 with 1220 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:37 - Jul 18 by chicoazul |
Given the poorest in our society receive free health care, free primary & secondary education, free library museum & public park access, and income support I think one can judge things quite favourably. We do however need to provide more council housing because as you rightly say we need bus drivers cleaners and porters et al. |
Treating people as actual human beings in all field of life, including their terms and conditions of employment tends to reduce their dependance upon the former and empowers them to get more out of the latter. [Post edited 18 Jul 2018 12:53]
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:53 - Jul 18 with 1201 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:42 - Jul 18 by Darth_Koont |
Given that our poverty figures and other social, health and education metrics are some of the worst in Europe, then I think you're aiming way too low.
We have a strong economy but we don't have a strong society to match. |
A strong economy? Hmmm | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:58 - Jul 18 with 1190 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 10:57 - Jul 18 by CoachRob |
Just shows that many overpaid university chancellors and vice-chancellors don't provide efficiently run uni's or provide dignity in work. Time to properly clamped down on excessive pay and start paying those who do necessary work at decent wage. |
Not just VC's. A lot of big business and public sector bodies only see an immediate saving and fail to work out that outsourcing ultimately costs more in the long run once increased staff turnover, sickness and lowered morale start impacting on efficiency. | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:00 - Jul 18 with 1189 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:50 - Jul 18 by BlueBadger |
Treating people as actual human beings in all field of life, including their terms and conditions of employment tends to reduce their dependance upon the former and empowers them to get more out of the latter. [Post edited 18 Jul 2018 12:53]
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The first part of your sentence tends toward hyperbole. Serco, G4S etc all may be parasitical companies (and wouldn't exist in the same form if it weren't for successive governments privatising and outsourcing services) but all offer the statutory minimum on e.g. holidays, pay, sick leave, and recognise unions. | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:03 - Jul 18 with 1183 views | Darth_Koont |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:53 - Jul 18 by chicoazul |
A strong economy? Hmmm |
Performance-wise yes. Structurally perhaps less so as we're very dependent on services where we're getting caught up by other countries and where technology like blockchain and AI can do some damage.
Certainly we have the means to take a lot better care of those people and regions that are at the bottom end. Our poor are the poorest in Western Europe and there are millions of them too. Couple that with relative poverty and how poor those people feel compared to the average in the UK and we've got a society that largely feels threatened, disillusioned and disenfranchised.
All this talk about ignoring the voices of the people re: Brexit. We've been ignoring far too many of them for decades on basic issues. | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:06 - Jul 18 with 1176 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:00 - Jul 18 by chicoazul |
The first part of your sentence tends toward hyperbole. Serco, G4S etc all may be parasitical companies (and wouldn't exist in the same form if it weren't for successive governments privatising and outsourcing services) but all offer the statutory minimum on e.g. holidays, pay, sick leave, and recognise unions. |
It's generally lip service. In the case of Serco, here in Suffolk with their disastrous foray into community healthcare, their first action was to remove local autonomy from district nursing tams by centralising into a call centre based in Ipswich staff by people with no 'on the ground' knowledge of anywhere outside Ipswich and look cut jobs across the board. The result? Complaints rocketed, targets were missed and staff left in droves which led into a vicious cycle of service deterioration. | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:07 - Jul 18 with 1171 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 11:58 - Jul 18 by BlueBadger |
Not just VC's. A lot of big business and public sector bodies only see an immediate saving and fail to work out that outsourcing ultimately costs more in the long run once increased staff turnover, sickness and lowered morale start impacting on efficiency. |
I think a lot of it is also about management/politicians trying to avoid responsibility for performance. If a service is directly managed, they are ultimately responsible for performance. If it's outsourced, it's much easier to put all the blame on the contractor.
In addition to the factors you mention, outsourcing also tends to end up costing more because it involves adding in extra layers to a service (contract management) and usually makes a service much less flexible. This is not to mention the upfront cost of outsourcing such as legal fees. |  | | |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:15 - Jul 18 with 1153 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:06 - Jul 18 by BlueBadger |
It's generally lip service. In the case of Serco, here in Suffolk with their disastrous foray into community healthcare, their first action was to remove local autonomy from district nursing tams by centralising into a call centre based in Ipswich staff by people with no 'on the ground' knowledge of anywhere outside Ipswich and look cut jobs across the board. The result? Complaints rocketed, targets were missed and staff left in droves which led into a vicious cycle of service deterioration. |
But that's a completely different point from not treating people like human beings as you originally said! | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:16 - Jul 18 with 1151 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:15 - Jul 18 by chicoazul |
But that's a completely different point from not treating people like human beings as you originally said! |
Not really if you're suggesting, as Serco did, that already stretched people should be 'working more efficiently' whilst making it much, much harder to do so. [Post edited 18 Jul 2018 12:17]
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:20 - Jul 18 with 1140 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:16 - Jul 18 by BlueBadger |
Not really if you're suggesting, as Serco did, that already stretched people should be 'working more efficiently' whilst making it much, much harder to do so. [Post edited 18 Jul 2018 12:17]
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I can't agree that asking people to work harder or work differently = not treating them like human beings.
To be clear for some of the hard of reading/thinking on here; I make no comment on the literal performance of outsourcing companies or whether they should exist at all. | |
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| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:22 - Jul 18 with 1128 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting article on outsourcing on 12:20 - Jul 18 by chicoazul |
I can't agree that asking people to work harder or work differently = not treating them like human beings.
To be clear for some of the hard of reading/thinking on here; I make no comment on the literal performance of outsourcing companies or whether they should exist at all. |
If you're telling people to work harder and 'better' whilst also tying one hand behind their back and deliberately reducing peer and senior support(with the resultant impact upon sickness and stress levels) then yes, it is an utter failure to treat your staff decently. | |
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