| Victory for Israeli racist right wing jews........apply your own parallels! 20:42 - Jul 19 with 8491 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Apartheid emboldened by Trump and the rise of the right.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2018/07/israel-passes-controversial-je
Doesn't denying their right to a Jewish state fail those anti semitism tests?
Here it is...........
"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. "
......Well if this is the state they are creating I'll take my chances. Which camp are you in racist or anti semite, you decide! [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 21:23]
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 20:46 - Jul 19 with 4098 views | wkj |
This really is trying to hard to topple Keane vs Jewel - yet doesn't come close |  |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 20:55 - Jul 19 with 4075 views | Guthrum |
Originally, Israel was supposed to be a secular state. Under Netanyahu, that's going in the same direction as Turkey. |  |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:10 - Jul 19 with 4035 views | GlasgowBlue |
You really are trying too hard banksy. Israel was born out of the Balfour declaration which called for a "national home for the Jewish people" in 1917.
Has this come as news to you some 101 years later?
The need to establish a Jewish homeland was obviously obviously a matter of some urgency after 6 million Jews were exterminated by a madman in Europe.
Does denying Jews the right to self determination make one an anti semite? Yes. As per the IHRA definition. Does that mean you can't call out Israel for the things you believe they are doing wrong? Absolutely not. Criticise away.
just because you don't like the government or the actions of a government doesn't mean you can deny the country's right to exist.
I don't like what Assad is doing in Syria. Nor do I like what Kim Kim Jong-un is doing in North Korea. But I wouldn't suggest that either country no longer has the right to exist. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 21:11]
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:11 - Jul 19 with 4029 views | wkj |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:10 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue |
You really are trying too hard banksy. Israel was born out of the Balfour declaration which called for a "national home for the Jewish people" in 1917.
Has this come as news to you some 101 years later?
The need to establish a Jewish homeland was obviously obviously a matter of some urgency after 6 million Jews were exterminated by a madman in Europe.
Does denying Jews the right to self determination make one an anti semite? Yes. As per the IHRA definition. Does that mean you can't call out Israel for the things you believe they are doing wrong? Absolutely not. Criticise away.
just because you don't like the government or the actions of a government doesn't mean you can deny the country's right to exist.
I don't like what Assad is doing in Syria. Nor do I like what Kim Kim Jong-un is doing in North Korea. But I wouldn't suggest that either country no longer has the right to exist. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 21:11]
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dunno, he's got a nibble, this could be the start of a glorious meltdown. | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:27 - Jul 19 with 3963 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:11 - Jul 19 by wkj |
dunno, he's got a nibble, this could be the start of a glorious meltdown. |
I think Banksy is far too busy googling "Balfour Declaration" and "Formation of Israel" to come back and have a meltdown.
I'll check in the morning. | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist right wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:30 - Jul 19 with 3961 views | giant_stow |
Seems a little bit tragic that labour is in no position to speak out against this (or at least not a unsullied, credible one) [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 21:30]
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:45 - Jul 19 with 3900 views | factual_blue |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 20:55 - Jul 19 by Guthrum |
Originally, Israel was supposed to be a secular state. Under Netanyahu, that's going in the same direction as Turkey. |
A determination to avoid history repeating itself leading to history, errr....possibly repeating itself. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 21:46]
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:54 - Jul 19 with 3862 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:10 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue |
You really are trying too hard banksy. Israel was born out of the Balfour declaration which called for a "national home for the Jewish people" in 1917.
Has this come as news to you some 101 years later?
The need to establish a Jewish homeland was obviously obviously a matter of some urgency after 6 million Jews were exterminated by a madman in Europe.
Does denying Jews the right to self determination make one an anti semite? Yes. As per the IHRA definition. Does that mean you can't call out Israel for the things you believe they are doing wrong? Absolutely not. Criticise away.
just because you don't like the government or the actions of a government doesn't mean you can deny the country's right to exist.
I don't like what Assad is doing in Syria. Nor do I like what Kim Kim Jong-un is doing in North Korea. But I wouldn't suggest that either country no longer has the right to exist. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 21:11]
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So they have the 'right' to exist as an apartheid state ?
It's one thing with the historical context to create a national home for the Jewish people (*)in which non Jews are treated with respect and dignity, equality even (!) but to officially declare the arab speakers second class citizens creates a whole new dynamic!
[(*) Should the Rohingya be afforded the same? (and no this is not downplaying the scale of the holocaust.....these things should not be about numbers but consistency of principle).]
I genuinely feel that nation states should not be based on religion as it happens but this should come as no surprise. Furthermore, unless escaping from persecution (refugee status) there should be no absolute right to have a special status for Jews vis a vis Israel in the current context.
Please try to read this as thinking out loud rather than an absolute statement of truth/fact! I am struggling though to see the recent high profile anti semite warning narrative and the current stampede to the right in Israel as pure happenstance! | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:55 - Jul 19 with 3859 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 20:46 - Jul 19 by wkj |
This really is trying to hard to topple Keane vs Jewel - yet doesn't come close |
In the true tradition of twtd it's "too"! | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:57 - Jul 19 with 3850 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:27 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue |
I think Banksy is far too busy googling "Balfour Declaration" and "Formation of Israel" to come back and have a meltdown.
I'll check in the morning. |
Or walking the dog with my partner.........what is it with true blue Tories and arrogant twots! | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist right wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:58 - Jul 19 with 3849 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist right wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:30 - Jul 19 by giant_stow |
Seems a little bit tragic that labour is in no position to speak out against this (or at least not a unsullied, credible one) [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 21:30]
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It's almost as if.......? | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:03 - Jul 19 with 3829 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:54 - Jul 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So they have the 'right' to exist as an apartheid state ?
It's one thing with the historical context to create a national home for the Jewish people (*)in which non Jews are treated with respect and dignity, equality even (!) but to officially declare the arab speakers second class citizens creates a whole new dynamic!
[(*) Should the Rohingya be afforded the same? (and no this is not downplaying the scale of the holocaust.....these things should not be about numbers but consistency of principle).]
I genuinely feel that nation states should not be based on religion as it happens but this should come as no surprise. Furthermore, unless escaping from persecution (refugee status) there should be no absolute right to have a special status for Jews vis a vis Israel in the current context.
Please try to read this as thinking out loud rather than an absolute statement of truth/fact! I am struggling though to see the recent high profile anti semite warning narrative and the current stampede to the right in Israel as pure happenstance! |
It has the right to exist. Does that mean we approve of all that it does? No. Just as we don't approve of Trump. We don't then say that the USA does not have the right to exist.
If we believe that it is operating as an apartheid state, and it is nowhere near being an apartheid state, then our government should put the same pressure on Israel as it would any other country that we deem to be operating against it's citizens best interests.
And that comes back to the IHRA definition. Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Assad has no right to gas his citizens. Putin has no right to murder and imprison his political opponents. We do not question Syria or Russia's right to exist. | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:09 - Jul 19 with 3819 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 21:10 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue |
You really are trying too hard banksy. Israel was born out of the Balfour declaration which called for a "national home for the Jewish people" in 1917.
Has this come as news to you some 101 years later?
The need to establish a Jewish homeland was obviously obviously a matter of some urgency after 6 million Jews were exterminated by a madman in Europe.
Does denying Jews the right to self determination make one an anti semite? Yes. As per the IHRA definition. Does that mean you can't call out Israel for the things you believe they are doing wrong? Absolutely not. Criticise away.
just because you don't like the government or the actions of a government doesn't mean you can deny the country's right to exist.
I don't like what Assad is doing in Syria. Nor do I like what Kim Kim Jong-un is doing in North Korea. But I wouldn't suggest that either country no longer has the right to exist. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 21:11]
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The whole right to self-determination thing is a lot more complex than this.
I am a Zionist and enthusiastically support the existence of Israel as homeland for the Jewish people, but I really disagree with the blanket idea that disagreeing with this notion is racism.
Whilst it's not something I agree with and will vigorously debate, people are entitled to hold the view that Israel is a colonial state built on immigrants oppressing a native population without being accused of racism. IMO, it's only racism when people don't hold other similarly created countries (Australia, New Zealand, US) to the same standard and are focussing on Israel because of the Jewish nature of the state.
Perhaps also worth asking whether (for example) those opposed to the Catalans or Scots exercising their right to self-determination were being racist, or whether there are many different reasons for doing so, some of which are due to prejudice and others which aren't. A blanket ruling that everyone has to be in the former category is a nonsense. |  | | |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:09 - Jul 19 with 3810 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:03 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue |
It has the right to exist. Does that mean we approve of all that it does? No. Just as we don't approve of Trump. We don't then say that the USA does not have the right to exist.
If we believe that it is operating as an apartheid state, and it is nowhere near being an apartheid state, then our government should put the same pressure on Israel as it would any other country that we deem to be operating against it's citizens best interests.
And that comes back to the IHRA definition. Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Assad has no right to gas his citizens. Putin has no right to murder and imprison his political opponents. We do not question Syria or Russia's right to exist. |
Morning!
Non of these states have first class citizens based on religion. You will not have to worry about double standards if our government follows the Thatcher model towards South Africa snd Chile! [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 22:11]
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:18 - Jul 19 with 3763 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:09 - Jul 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Morning!
Non of these states have first class citizens based on religion. You will not have to worry about double standards if our government follows the Thatcher model towards South Africa snd Chile! [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 22:11]
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So you accept that Israel has the right to exist but you strongly disapprove of the actions of the right wing Netanyahu government. Well we are in agreement there. The man is an absolute monster and it will be a great day in Israel when he finally leaves power. Hopefully on his way to jail. | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:20 - Jul 19 with 3760 views | syntaxerror |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:09 - Jul 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Morning!
Non of these states have first class citizens based on religion. You will not have to worry about double standards if our government follows the Thatcher model towards South Africa snd Chile! [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 22:11]
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I honestly feel this is tough one, and would appreciate the views of some of the more politically aware... But is seems to me that some aspects of the Israeli state are extremely protectionist, bordering on Zionist fascism.
But calling them out on this means accusations of Anti-Semitism. |  | | |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:23 - Jul 19 with 3744 views | brazil1982 |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:09 - Jul 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Morning!
Non of these states have first class citizens based on religion. You will not have to worry about double standards if our government follows the Thatcher model towards South Africa snd Chile! [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 22:11]
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BINGO Time! Thatcher! |  | | |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:24 - Jul 19 with 3742 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:20 - Jul 19 by syntaxerror |
I honestly feel this is tough one, and would appreciate the views of some of the more politically aware... But is seems to me that some aspects of the Israeli state are extremely protectionist, bordering on Zionist fascism.
But calling them out on this means accusations of Anti-Semitism. |
How is calling out the actions of the Israeli government antisemitic?
It's perfectly acceptable to call them out. Just avoid using comparisons with the Nazis. It's really not that hard.
There are plenty of other regimes to use as a comparison. | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:28 - Jul 19 with 3718 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:20 - Jul 19 by syntaxerror |
I honestly feel this is tough one, and would appreciate the views of some of the more politically aware... But is seems to me that some aspects of the Israeli state are extremely protectionist, bordering on Zionist fascism.
But calling them out on this means accusations of Anti-Semitism. |
"This is a defining moment in the annals of Zionism and the history of the state of Israel," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the Knesset after the vote. | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:32 - Jul 19 with 3707 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:24 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue |
How is calling out the actions of the Israeli government antisemitic?
It's perfectly acceptable to call them out. Just avoid using comparisons with the Nazis. It's really not that hard.
There are plenty of other regimes to use as a comparison. |
"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. "Â
.......the existence of this State of Israel is a racist endeavour! | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:34 - Jul 19 with 3702 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:23 - Jul 19 by brazil1982 |
BINGO Time! Thatcher! |
What else would you like for a full house? | |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:40 - Jul 19 with 3679 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:32 - Jul 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. "Â
.......the existence of this State of Israel is a racist endeavour! |
The existence. Not it's actions. You can say that what the Israeli government is doing is racist. You can't say that the country's very existence is racist.
The more I read the more I'm convinced that you don't think Israel has the right to exist. With any other country it would be regime change. But in this instance it's state change.
Am I correct?
Hmmm. I guess you are out walking the dog again. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 22:51]
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 23:24 - Jul 19 with 3588 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:40 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue |
The existence. Not it's actions. You can say that what the Israeli government is doing is racist. You can't say that the country's very existence is racist.
The more I read the more I'm convinced that you don't think Israel has the right to exist. With any other country it would be regime change. But in this instance it's state change.
Am I correct?
Hmmm. I guess you are out walking the dog again. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 22:51]
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No, washing up.........remember that!
I would have argued that the apartheid S A state had no right to exist......as you will know we anarchists are ultimately against all state boundaries ideally. Israel has no special status in this regard while secular but it appears now that Jewishness is a defining factor in being a full citizen.
Anyway I thought you were all for the 2 state solution which would require the dissolution of the current state.
....and now, sleep. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 23:26]
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 23:34 - Jul 19 with 3558 views | Ryorry |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 22:09 - Jul 19 by Clapham_Junction |
The whole right to self-determination thing is a lot more complex than this.
I am a Zionist and enthusiastically support the existence of Israel as homeland for the Jewish people, but I really disagree with the blanket idea that disagreeing with this notion is racism.
Whilst it's not something I agree with and will vigorously debate, people are entitled to hold the view that Israel is a colonial state built on immigrants oppressing a native population without being accused of racism. IMO, it's only racism when people don't hold other similarly created countries (Australia, New Zealand, US) to the same standard and are focussing on Israel because of the Jewish nature of the state.
Perhaps also worth asking whether (for example) those opposed to the Catalans or Scots exercising their right to self-determination were being racist, or whether there are many different reasons for doing so, some of which are due to prejudice and others which aren't. A blanket ruling that everyone has to be in the former category is a nonsense. |
Depends what (or who) you mean by "native population". Who ousted who originally? (might need Guthers' assistance here!). |  |
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| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 23:41 - Jul 19 with 3548 views | syntaxerror |
| Victory for Israeli racist rigt wing jews........apply your own parallels! on 23:24 - Jul 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
No, washing up.........remember that!
I would have argued that the apartheid S A state had no right to exist......as you will know we anarchists are ultimately against all state boundaries ideally. Israel has no special status in this regard while secular but it appears now that Jewishness is a defining factor in being a full citizen.
Anyway I thought you were all for the 2 state solution which would require the dissolution of the current state.
....and now, sleep. [Post edited 19 Jul 2018 23:26]
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Apartheid South Africa had no right to exist. Very few argue with that.
But Israel is allowed to exercise the same lack of self determination to a part of its indigenous population, aggressively, and occasionally causing loss of life at times.
Apartheid South Africa drew widespread condemnation, and correctly so, for its justification of 'hot pursuit' - chasing armed opponents of the regime into foreign countries with deadly force, and often with serious collateral damage.
Israel can do the same with impunity from most western governments.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like double standards. | | | |
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