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In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
(No subject) (n/t) on 15:13 - Aug 15 by giant_stow
I move in labour-voting circles - the only labour-voting bod I know that will stick up for Corbyn is the party loyalist who also backed Tone to the hilt too. Everyone else to varying degrees, is horrified by what's happening to the party and considers Corbyn to be bad news, so I believe Lowhouse is correct in the post you respond too.
I understand that *your* labour mates may easily feel differently, but before you point this out, consider how sh1t the tories are ask why Labour aren't romping it in the opinion polls like they should be in the circumstances. It's a disaster that they're not and failing so badly just when we needed them so much.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2018 15:17]
This is a side issue to this thread and I don't have all the answers. The facts are that the Tories had a majority not so long ago... and were predicted to get an even bigger one in the General Election. Corbyn came closer than the previous incumbent. I agree I would have hoped things would have moved on further by now but for me that's not the fault of Corbyn, it's the Labour snipers like Lowhouse not getting behind their leader. They want a more centralist party - in which case they should go off and form Tory-lite if that's what they want.
(No subject) (n/t) on 15:13 - Aug 15 by giant_stow
I move in labour-voting circles - the only labour-voting bod I know that will stick up for Corbyn is the party loyalist who also backed Tone to the hilt too. Everyone else to varying degrees, is horrified by what's happening to the party and considers Corbyn to be bad news, so I believe Lowhouse is correct in the post you respond too.
I understand that *your* labour mates may easily feel differently, but before you point this out, consider how sh1t the tories are ask why Labour aren't romping it in the opinion polls like they should be in the circumstances. It's a disaster that they're not and failing so badly just when we needed them so much.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2018 15:17]
I do appreciate this and understand that large numbers of people have concerns.
The thing I personally find most disheartening is thinking about how many people's opinions have been distorted by the constant barrage of unfounded claims by the right wing press. The trouble is, voicing this concern is automatically greeted with a shutdown of "oh you just think everything's a smear", or in some cases that it's even some kind of antisemitic allegation that it's down to the 'Jewish' press attacking Corbyn. It really is a hopeless discussion at times.
I'm really not saying every criticism of Corbyn is a smear or unfounded, but there must be a lot of people out there that have doubts over him based on these kind of 'terror wreath' fabrications. People that don't engage more than hearing the news headlines or looking at social media often don't get the full picture on a range of subjects across both sides of the political spectrum. It's worrying how many GlasgowBlues there are out there, that think Corbyn laid a wreath for terrorists.
Of course it's all very hard to measure when you have such a large growth in membership of the party from people who must have not been engaged in party politics to this degree previously. Their defence of the person behind their re-engagement with politics can easily become just as irrational as the accusations that he continuously faces. It turns the whole thing into a circus.
No, not at the moment
2
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:33 - Aug 15 with 1355 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 14:58 - Aug 15 by BrixtonBlue
"I voiced an opinion, you insist on telling me it's wrong. I think you'd be annoyed if it's the other way round."
Firstly, what opinion have I insisted on telling you is wrong?
Secondly, why are you always so precious? If I think an opinion is wrong I'll say so. And if anyone thinks my opinion is wrong they can say so too.
Then we have this "feel free to have the final word" like you've assumed that's something that's important to me. It isn't. i just like answering when people put something to me!
You are difficult to converse with... and actually it's funny that you describe me as argumentative when you seem to do exactly what you accuse me of. Why you're getting all uppity here is a case in point.
You can have your own opinion of me, that's fine. I'm far from the only person who has made the same observation about conversing with you though, I guess we are all difficult and argumentative. It's possible, those type of people are likely drawn to forums after all.
SB
[Post edited 15 Aug 2018 15:34]
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
1
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:42 - Aug 15 with 1340 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:04 - Aug 15 by BrixtonBlue
"he comes across as shifty"
ahahahahahahah. You've got it real bad haven't you lowhouse?
Glassers has said Corbyn is an anti semite and a supporter of terrorism, so yes to your first question.
I am hoping to get some work done today Dollers so a quick reply. As with my posts regarding the people involved in the Munich massacre, you fail to read what is actually written. I said he supports terrorists. Not terrorism.n
I don't believe he supports the bombing and the murder of innocent people. I believe he sees it as the means to an end for the causes he supports and turns a blind eye to the atrocities whilst supporting the people who carry it out.
Two examples would be campaigning for the to terrorists who blew up a Jewish charity building in London
Another is laying a wreath on the graves of members of Black September. That is support for terrorists. Not support for terrorism.
As for him being an antisemite. For years I have defended him and said I didn't think he was. Now I can't honestly say that based on some of his actions and words. He's not an out and out Jew hater. Antisemitism is far more nuanced than that. Margaret Hodge, who lost family in the Holocaust says he is. This is what the CAA say about him
The evidence says @JeremyCorbyn is an antisemite. He has spent his life associating with, defending and honouring antisemites, and he has indulged in antisemitic conspiracy theories. As @UKLabour leader he has let antisemitism run rampant. Let’s be clear: he is: an antisemite. pic.twitter.com/33ML2Rc7Od
— Campaign Against Antisemitism (@antisemitism) August 2, 2018
Now back to work. I don't intend to waste any more time on you or the other cult followers today of this evening.
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:33 - Aug 15 by StokieBlue
You can have your own opinion of me, that's fine. I'm far from the only person who has made the same observation about conversing with you though, I guess we are all difficult and argumentative. It's possible, those type of people are likely drawn to forums after all.
SB
[Post edited 15 Aug 2018 15:34]
I think some on here (not saying you) jump on those bandwagons about conversing with me because it's an easy get-out/shut down technique. The truth is more that they don't like that I've always got a comeback.
Anyway, good stuff. Maybe we should both 'check ourselves before we wreck ourselves' a little more before we post.
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:42 - Aug 15 by GlasgowBlue
I am hoping to get some work done today Dollers so a quick reply. As with my posts regarding the people involved in the Munich massacre, you fail to read what is actually written. I said he supports terrorists. Not terrorism.n
I don't believe he supports the bombing and the murder of innocent people. I believe he sees it as the means to an end for the causes he supports and turns a blind eye to the atrocities whilst supporting the people who carry it out.
Two examples would be campaigning for the to terrorists who blew up a Jewish charity building in London
Another is laying a wreath on the graves of members of Black September. That is support for terrorists. Not support for terrorism.
As for him being an antisemite. For years I have defended him and said I didn't think he was. Now I can't honestly say that based on some of his actions and words. He's not an out and out Jew hater. Antisemitism is far more nuanced than that. Margaret Hodge, who lost family in the Holocaust says he is. This is what the CAA say about him
The evidence says @JeremyCorbyn is an antisemite. He has spent his life associating with, defending and honouring antisemites, and he has indulged in antisemitic conspiracy theories. As @UKLabour leader he has let antisemitism run rampant. Let’s be clear: he is: an antisemite. pic.twitter.com/33ML2Rc7Od
— Campaign Against Antisemitism (@antisemitism) August 2, 2018
Now back to work. I don't intend to waste any more time on you or the other cult followers today of this evening.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2018 16:01]
Not sure whether this is confirmation that you're going to ignore my last few posts as you've run out of ideas, or that you just want to change the subject.
You do mention "laying a wreath on the graves of members of Black September." again though which is disappointing even for you. It's like you want to get the final word in without having to explain yourself or address anything that's been put to you. Again, a very childlike way of discussing something.
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:42 - Aug 15 by GlasgowBlue
I am hoping to get some work done today Dollers so a quick reply. As with my posts regarding the people involved in the Munich massacre, you fail to read what is actually written. I said he supports terrorists. Not terrorism.n
I don't believe he supports the bombing and the murder of innocent people. I believe he sees it as the means to an end for the causes he supports and turns a blind eye to the atrocities whilst supporting the people who carry it out.
Two examples would be campaigning for the to terrorists who blew up a Jewish charity building in London
Another is laying a wreath on the graves of members of Black September. That is support for terrorists. Not support for terrorism.
As for him being an antisemite. For years I have defended him and said I didn't think he was. Now I can't honestly say that based on some of his actions and words. He's not an out and out Jew hater. Antisemitism is far more nuanced than that. Margaret Hodge, who lost family in the Holocaust says he is. This is what the CAA say about him
The evidence says @JeremyCorbyn is an antisemite. He has spent his life associating with, defending and honouring antisemites, and he has indulged in antisemitic conspiracy theories. As @UKLabour leader he has let antisemitism run rampant. Let’s be clear: he is: an antisemite. pic.twitter.com/33ML2Rc7Od
— Campaign Against Antisemitism (@antisemitism) August 2, 2018
Now back to work. I don't intend to waste any more time on you or the other cult followers today of this evening.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2018 16:01]
You write all this stuff and you still can't engage on a very simple point.
Pronouns: He/Him
2
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:08 - Aug 15 with 1274 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:42 - Aug 15 by GlasgowBlue
I am hoping to get some work done today Dollers so a quick reply. As with my posts regarding the people involved in the Munich massacre, you fail to read what is actually written. I said he supports terrorists. Not terrorism.n
I don't believe he supports the bombing and the murder of innocent people. I believe he sees it as the means to an end for the causes he supports and turns a blind eye to the atrocities whilst supporting the people who carry it out.
Two examples would be campaigning for the to terrorists who blew up a Jewish charity building in London
Another is laying a wreath on the graves of members of Black September. That is support for terrorists. Not support for terrorism.
As for him being an antisemite. For years I have defended him and said I didn't think he was. Now I can't honestly say that based on some of his actions and words. He's not an out and out Jew hater. Antisemitism is far more nuanced than that. Margaret Hodge, who lost family in the Holocaust says he is. This is what the CAA say about him
The evidence says @JeremyCorbyn is an antisemite. He has spent his life associating with, defending and honouring antisemites, and he has indulged in antisemitic conspiracy theories. As @UKLabour leader he has let antisemitism run rampant. Let’s be clear: he is: an antisemite. pic.twitter.com/33ML2Rc7Od
— Campaign Against Antisemitism (@antisemitism) August 2, 2018
Now back to work. I don't intend to waste any more time on you or the other cult followers today of this evening.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2018 16:01]
Thank you for you clarification at least.
You seem to have Zed on ignore? He's making some very good points which you appear to be ignoring.
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:20 - Aug 15 by BrixtonBlue
"Corbyn went out of his way to lay a wreath in the grave of one of the masterminds of the Munich massacre."
Who?
Do you have proof of Corbyn actually laying a wreath on said grave and do you have proof that the corpse in question was one of the masterminds of the Munich massacre?
Not heresay, not separate shots linked together from different angles, no "was thought to have beens".
PROOF PROOF PROOF
?
p.s. Glassers, when you get a minute it would be good if you can answer this.
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:10 - Aug 15 by BrixtonBlue
p.s. Glassers, when you get a minute it would be good if you can answer this.
You seem to miss the point that it is accepted that Corbyn laid it on this grave, but now the goalpost has shifted to whether this guy is a Black September mastermind or just a PLO guy.
Glasgow says he is
Zed says he isn't
The fact the goalposts have shifted so many times throughout this debate that they are now discussing whether this guy is a terrorist rather than whether Corbyn was there, or part of the wreath laying, or at the right grave, or at a different wreath laying etc makes me think this guy is a terrorist and Corbyn, yet again, has been an idiot.
I see The Maximum Leader on 15:31 - Aug 15 by ZedRodgers
I do appreciate this and understand that large numbers of people have concerns.
The thing I personally find most disheartening is thinking about how many people's opinions have been distorted by the constant barrage of unfounded claims by the right wing press. The trouble is, voicing this concern is automatically greeted with a shutdown of "oh you just think everything's a smear", or in some cases that it's even some kind of antisemitic allegation that it's down to the 'Jewish' press attacking Corbyn. It really is a hopeless discussion at times.
I'm really not saying every criticism of Corbyn is a smear or unfounded, but there must be a lot of people out there that have doubts over him based on these kind of 'terror wreath' fabrications. People that don't engage more than hearing the news headlines or looking at social media often don't get the full picture on a range of subjects across both sides of the political spectrum. It's worrying how many GlasgowBlues there are out there, that think Corbyn laid a wreath for terrorists.
Of course it's all very hard to measure when you have such a large growth in membership of the party from people who must have not been engaged in party politics to this degree previously. Their defence of the person behind their re-engagement with politics can easily become just as irrational as the accusations that he continuously faces. It turns the whole thing into a circus.
cheers to you and dolly for your replies - interesting stuff.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:16 - Aug 15 by itfcjoe
You seem to miss the point that it is accepted that Corbyn laid it on this grave, but now the goalpost has shifted to whether this guy is a Black September mastermind or just a PLO guy.
Glasgow says he is
Zed says he isn't
The fact the goalposts have shifted so many times throughout this debate that they are now discussing whether this guy is a terrorist rather than whether Corbyn was there, or part of the wreath laying, or at the right grave, or at a different wreath laying etc makes me think this guy is a terrorist and Corbyn, yet again, has been an idiot.
The fact that we're discussing whether he's a terrorist makes you think he's a terrorist?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it difficult to understand what GlasgowBlue has said which confirms that anyone buried in that the cemetery was behind any acts of terror. It's not really a case of Glasgow says he is and Zed says he isn't.
If you're happy to assume that somebody was behind a massacre without any evidence then so be it. Thinly-veiled racism in my opinion. I've made my points why I think the opposite and used a number of sources that are much stronger than 'allegedly' this or 'is thought to be' that. The best GB came up with was a screenshot of a NYT article which had different text photoshopped onto it.
No, not at the moment
2
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:29 - Aug 15 with 1215 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:16 - Aug 15 by itfcjoe
You seem to miss the point that it is accepted that Corbyn laid it on this grave, but now the goalpost has shifted to whether this guy is a Black September mastermind or just a PLO guy.
Glasgow says he is
Zed says he isn't
The fact the goalposts have shifted so many times throughout this debate that they are now discussing whether this guy is a terrorist rather than whether Corbyn was there, or part of the wreath laying, or at the right grave, or at a different wreath laying etc makes me think this guy is a terrorist and Corbyn, yet again, has been an idiot.
exactly this. the hunt by his acolytes for ways in which to excuse corbyn is quite magnificent.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-4
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:33 - Aug 15 with 1200 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:27 - Aug 15 by ZedRodgers
The fact that we're discussing whether he's a terrorist makes you think he's a terrorist?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it difficult to understand what GlasgowBlue has said which confirms that anyone buried in that the cemetery was behind any acts of terror. It's not really a case of Glasgow says he is and Zed says he isn't.
If you're happy to assume that somebody was behind a massacre without any evidence then so be it. Thinly-veiled racism in my opinion. I've made my points why I think the opposite and used a number of sources that are much stronger than 'allegedly' this or 'is thought to be' that. The best GB came up with was a screenshot of a NYT article which had different text photoshopped onto it.
so your current line is that: corbyn did lay the wreath on the grave of the 4 plo leaders; he knew who they were when he laid the wreath; he knew he was laying a wreath; but in full knowledge of this, and at the time of laying the wreath, he considered that 4 plo leaders were not terrorists. is that right?
why has he never said all that - and in fact denied various bits of it at various times?
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
0
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:12 - Aug 15 with 1137 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:33 - Aug 15 by lowhouseblue
so your current line is that: corbyn did lay the wreath on the grave of the 4 plo leaders; he knew who they were when he laid the wreath; he knew he was laying a wreath; but in full knowledge of this, and at the time of laying the wreath, he considered that 4 plo leaders were not terrorists. is that right?
why has he never said all that - and in fact denied various bits of it at various times?
Current line?
My ‘line’ has always been that he was there on 1st October 2014 to commemorate the victims of the 1st October 1985 bombing. Whilst he was there tributes were also paid to other PLO members by the Tunisian President and other PA officials. One of those who was paid tribute to was killed in Paris in 1992. In an earlier post I sourced Mossad’s own admissions that this wasn’t related to Munich.
I don’t care where he laid the fkcing wreath, whether he touched the fkcing wreath or which route he took when walking around the cemetery.
He has tried to explain his reasons for being there but people like GlasgowBlue think sentences like “there were also tributes paid to those who died in Paris in 1992” are him admitting he laid a wreath for terrorists.
“Why has he never said all that?” - it’s exactly what he says here:
Jeremy Corbyn said no such thing. Those who carried out the Munich massacre are not buried in the Palestinian National Cemetery in Tunis and there was no ceremony for them. @thetimespic.twitter.com/4HozemJDpJ
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:16 - Aug 15 by itfcjoe
You seem to miss the point that it is accepted that Corbyn laid it on this grave, but now the goalpost has shifted to whether this guy is a Black September mastermind or just a PLO guy.
Glasgow says he is
Zed says he isn't
The fact the goalposts have shifted so many times throughout this debate that they are now discussing whether this guy is a terrorist rather than whether Corbyn was there, or part of the wreath laying, or at the right grave, or at a different wreath laying etc makes me think this guy is a terrorist and Corbyn, yet again, has been an idiot.
The goalposts have not shifted on our side. There has been a picture of Corbyn holding a wreath in a graveyard all along. The question has always been "Was he commemorating a terrorist?"
Why on earth would the inconsistencies of such a debate make you think he is a terrorist (unless that's what you wanted to believe all along)?
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:12 - Aug 15 by ZedRodgers
Current line?
My ‘line’ has always been that he was there on 1st October 2014 to commemorate the victims of the 1st October 1985 bombing. Whilst he was there tributes were also paid to other PLO members by the Tunisian President and other PA officials. One of those who was paid tribute to was killed in Paris in 1992. In an earlier post I sourced Mossad’s own admissions that this wasn’t related to Munich.
I don’t care where he laid the fkcing wreath, whether he touched the fkcing wreath or which route he took when walking around the cemetery.
He has tried to explain his reasons for being there but people like GlasgowBlue think sentences like “there were also tributes paid to those who died in Paris in 1992” are him admitting he laid a wreath for terrorists.
“Why has he never said all that?” - it’s exactly what he says here:
Jeremy Corbyn said no such thing. Those who carried out the Munich massacre are not buried in the Palestinian National Cemetery in Tunis and there was no ceremony for them. @thetimespic.twitter.com/4HozemJDpJ
so you now accept the photographic evidence showing him taking part in the ceremony by, and laying a wreath on, the graves of the 4 plo leaders. that's good, but it's taken sometime to get there.
and you think he was of the opinion that the 4 weren't terrorists? is that right. in reaching that conclusion do you think he was aware however that most of the international community considered the 4 to include the masterminds behind the munich attack?
the point i'm making, and i'll say it explicitly to help things along, is that your reliance now upon the argument that the 4 weren't really proven to be terrorists can only have any relevance whatsoever if corbyn knew he was laying a wreath, knew on whose graves he was laying it, knew their history, and had formed the view, contrary to the weight of international opinion, that they weren't terrorists. your current argument actually rests upon elements that corbyn has previously denied.
and by the way that tweet from the labour press team is the most shamelessly disingenuous point imaginable - they know full well that no one has claimed that the 8 people who actually carried out the munich attack are buried there.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-2
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:41 - Aug 15 with 1088 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:12 - Aug 15 by ZedRodgers
Current line?
My ‘line’ has always been that he was there on 1st October 2014 to commemorate the victims of the 1st October 1985 bombing. Whilst he was there tributes were also paid to other PLO members by the Tunisian President and other PA officials. One of those who was paid tribute to was killed in Paris in 1992. In an earlier post I sourced Mossad’s own admissions that this wasn’t related to Munich.
I don’t care where he laid the fkcing wreath, whether he touched the fkcing wreath or which route he took when walking around the cemetery.
He has tried to explain his reasons for being there but people like GlasgowBlue think sentences like “there were also tributes paid to those who died in Paris in 1992” are him admitting he laid a wreath for terrorists.
“Why has he never said all that?” - it’s exactly what he says here:
Jeremy Corbyn said no such thing. Those who carried out the Munich massacre are not buried in the Palestinian National Cemetery in Tunis and there was no ceremony for them. @thetimespic.twitter.com/4HozemJDpJ
In a nutshell, the leader of the opposition has incredibly bad judgement, he is easily played by those he believes are friends and his statements on terrorists are ambiguous.
0
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:46 - Aug 15 with 1079 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:21 - Aug 15 by BrixtonBlue
The goalposts have not shifted on our side. There has been a picture of Corbyn holding a wreath in a graveyard all along. The question has always been "Was he commemorating a terrorist?"
Why on earth would the inconsistencies of such a debate make you think he is a terrorist (unless that's what you wanted to believe all along)?
Look him up on wikipedia if you don't trust Zed.
The question was was he there, then did he may a wreath there, then was he at a different memorial and you are still claiming that the photos don’t prove he was there.
After all that to-ing and fro-ing the only question is is the guy a terrorist where he laid a wreath or not. If that was the case all along why all the talk about whether he laid it and what cemetery he’s at or what grave he was in front of etc?
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:27 - Aug 15 by BrixtonBlue
Have you got any proof for this?
does a labour spokesman saying that atef bseiso was a perpetrator of the munich massacre count as proof? in 2017 a labour spokesman said:
“Jeremy Corbyn condemns the Munich massacre and its perpetrators, and that what he was attending was not anything to do with perpetrator Atef Bseiso, but an event to commemorate the 1985 bombing of the PLO headquarters”
now we have photos showing corbyn laying a wreath on the grave of atef bseiso that 2017 statement has become rather awkward. a different year a different excuse i guess.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-3
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:59 - Aug 15 with 1051 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 17:41 - Aug 15 by imsureazzure
In a nutshell, the leader of the opposition has incredibly bad judgement, he is easily played by those he believes are friends and his statements on terrorists are ambiguous.
You live inside your weird little nutshell if you want to.
Is it his bad judgement to show respect to civilians that have died, or is it your bad judgement to criticise him for it 4 years later, when it’s a subject you knew absolutely nothing about until the Daily Mail told you that you need to be shocked?
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