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In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
I see The Maximum Leader on 18:42 - Aug 13 by lowhouseblue
those poorer towns and regions are exactly where corbyn and co play worst. no one is suggesting that the answer is blair mark 2 - responding to those in left out communities has to be central particularly post brexit. a different steering wheel is needed from 20 years ago. but you need to do that and carry the trust of a large part of the middle class. corbyn and the hard left is not the answer. with this government labour should have a 20 point lead.
So who and what do you suggest? FWIW I don't think the hard-left are actually that hard or numerous in reality. It's more a feature of your own internal polarising battle and a response to where the right of the party has gone.
You can carry the trust of the middle class if you appeal to their brains and hearts and not just to their wallets. If the right thing to do is raise taxes to support our shared services and the poor then say it and do it. This is where votes get in the way of actually standing up for what is right and LEADING the country. Defaulting to the whims of voters in key marginals just leads towards the sort of populistic nonsense we've seen in recent years and long-term damage in years to come.
Pronouns: He/Him
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I see The Maximum Leader on 19:08 - Aug 13 with 2621 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 14:47 - Aug 13 by chicoazul
FWIW I don't think Corbyn is an anti semite or racist or indeed an rsehole in any personal way. What he is is, simply, stupid. Truly, deeply stupid. He's a nice man and really does believe in egalitarianism and Marx and would love to make the world what he sees as a better place. But he is a stupid man, possessed of a very childish naivete and a clumsy hamfisted way of dealing with people and the press. He is also the perfect Trojan horse for the very *very* unpleasant Stalinists behind him who mark my words will dethrone him within 2 years when he wins the next election.
I think you give him too much credit
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I see The Maximum Leader on 19:22 - Aug 13 with 2552 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 19:07 - Aug 13 by Darth_Koont
So who and what do you suggest? FWIW I don't think the hard-left are actually that hard or numerous in reality. It's more a feature of your own internal polarising battle and a response to where the right of the party has gone.
You can carry the trust of the middle class if you appeal to their brains and hearts and not just to their wallets. If the right thing to do is raise taxes to support our shared services and the poor then say it and do it. This is where votes get in the way of actually standing up for what is right and LEADING the country. Defaulting to the whims of voters in key marginals just leads towards the sort of populistic nonsense we've seen in recent years and long-term damage in years to come.
it is possible to win an election on a manifesto that includes tax rises (real ones, not taxes that only apply to other people like 'the super rich' or 'corporations'). but you can only do that if you have first established economic credibility, competence and trust. people won't vote for higher taxes if they think you're also going to crash the economy. the middle class can be progressive and can be led to be more so, but they need to believe a party is credible and trustworthy.
oh, and in terms of building a broad coalition, it's best to avoid disparaging the 'whims of voters'. best not to let your contempt for others show.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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I see The Maximum Leader on 19:33 - Aug 13 with 2567 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 19:22 - Aug 13 by lowhouseblue
it is possible to win an election on a manifesto that includes tax rises (real ones, not taxes that only apply to other people like 'the super rich' or 'corporations'). but you can only do that if you have first established economic credibility, competence and trust. people won't vote for higher taxes if they think you're also going to crash the economy. the middle class can be progressive and can be led to be more so, but they need to believe a party is credible and trustworthy.
oh, and in terms of building a broad coalition, it's best to avoid disparaging the 'whims of voters'. best not to let your contempt for others show.
Sorry, but that sounds like a list of excuses to say and do nothing.
We seem to have a complete difference in opinion to what a political party should stand for or should aim for. If it's reason for being is to amass votes as you seem to be suggesting then it's no wonder we're in the current shapeless and clueless mess.
If we're talking about policy as a product and voters as consumers, your only sales approach seems to be constantly dropping the price.
Pronouns: He/Him
-1
I see The Maximum Leader on 19:51 - Aug 13 with 2510 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:07 - Aug 13 by baxterbasics
Argentina The IRA Palestinian terrorists
In every case Corbyn backs the wrong horse. He seems to side with anyone against the British State or her allies. As was said earlier, he may always have good intentions, but he's still very wrong.
I see The Maximum Leader on 16:07 - Aug 13 by baxterbasics
Argentina The IRA Palestinian terrorists
In every case Corbyn backs the wrong horse. He seems to side with anyone against the British State or her allies. As was said earlier, he may always have good intentions, but he's still very wrong.
Remember 9/11 and 7/7?
The current UK goverment has some interesting friends.
Not only are our allies Saudi and UAE bombing school buses in Yemen but they are also recruiting Al-Qaida fighters there.
All the while the UK goverment approves arms sales, support and assistance.
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I see The Maximum Leader on 21:17 - Aug 13 with 2412 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 21:08 - Aug 13 by Bluesquid
Remember 9/11 and 7/7?
The current UK goverment has some interesting friends.
Not only are our allies Saudi and UAE bombing school buses in Yemen but they are also recruiting Al-Qaida fighters there.
All the while the UK goverment approves arms sales, support and assistance.
Pretty easy to say the same about the leader of the opposition and his support for Russia isn't it? He's said on multiple occasions he would do business with Putin and has defended their actions.
It's almost as if people see what they want depending on what they believe in.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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I see The Maximum Leader on 21:22 - Aug 13 with 2390 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 21:18 - Aug 13 by StokieBlue
Pretty easy to say the same about the leader of the opposition and his support for Russia isn't it? He's said on multiple occasions he would do business with Putin and has defended their actions.
It's almost as if people see what they want depending on what they believe in.
SB
Russia haven't been recruiting members of Al-Qaida.
The current UK goverment's allies are.
[Post edited 13 Aug 2018 21:29]
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I see The Maximum Leader on 21:26 - Aug 13 with 2388 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 21:18 - Aug 13 by StokieBlue
Pretty easy to say the same about the leader of the opposition and his support for Russia isn't it? He's said on multiple occasions he would do business with Putin and has defended their actions.
It's almost as if people see what they want depending on what they believe in.
SB
There's hope for you yet, Stokie!
Can you extend your interest in the Jews and Jewish organisations who recognise and aren't happy about this witchhunt and apply it to the overall situation? For them this is a familiar tactic. Does that give you any pause for thought about the legitimacy of some of these accusations?
Pronouns: He/Him
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I see The Maximum Leader on 21:38 - Aug 13 with 2353 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 21:26 - Aug 13 by Darth_Koont
There's hope for you yet, Stokie!
Can you extend your interest in the Jews and Jewish organisations who recognise and aren't happy about this witchhunt and apply it to the overall situation? For them this is a familiar tactic. Does that give you any pause for thought about the legitimacy of some of these accusations?
Not really, I think I made my position fairly clear on the long (and hopefully not boring post on page 1) although that was specifically on JC himself.
I don't or a minute believe their aren't Jewish people on his side, they are in the minority though wouldn't you agree?
The thing is - he could sort this out easily and he seems to not want to.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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I see The Maximum Leader on 22:15 - Aug 13 with 2335 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 21:38 - Aug 13 by StokieBlue
Not really, I think I made my position fairly clear on the long (and hopefully not boring post on page 1) although that was specifically on JC himself.
I don't or a minute believe their aren't Jewish people on his side, they are in the minority though wouldn't you agree?
The thing is - he could sort this out easily and he seems to not want to.
SB
Yes, there's a minority. But there's a minority of Jews who are vocally against the Israeli government's policies and don't believe it should be supported by Jews in Israel or abroad to the extent it is. They themselves are accused of being antisemites.
Depending on your position on Israel/Palestine, the accusations of antisemite come thick and fast irrespective of whether you're an antisemite or not and indeed even if you're Jewish. That is the battleground we're getting into.
In fact I think Netanyahu's government was recently accused of being antisemitic when it tried to slow down the settler movement. It's frequently a religious fundamentalist and political argument that goes way, way beyond our secular view of discrimination and racial prejudice. That's why the attempt to equate anti-Zionism with antisemitism is so dangerous as it risks actually shutting down criticism of some very extreme and in their own way racist beliefs and actions.
Pronouns: He/Him
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I see The Maximum Leader on 22:22 - Aug 13 with 2308 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 19:33 - Aug 13 by Darth_Koont
Sorry, but that sounds like a list of excuses to say and do nothing.
We seem to have a complete difference in opinion to what a political party should stand for or should aim for. If it's reason for being is to amass votes as you seem to be suggesting then it's no wonder we're in the current shapeless and clueless mess.
If we're talking about policy as a product and voters as consumers, your only sales approach seems to be constantly dropping the price.
and your refusal to try and build a coalition bigger than you and the people who agree with everything you think leaves you impotent and uninvolved. but your smugness survives nonetheless.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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I see The Maximum Leader on 22:26 - Aug 13 with 2300 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 22:15 - Aug 13 by Darth_Koont
Yes, there's a minority. But there's a minority of Jews who are vocally against the Israeli government's policies and don't believe it should be supported by Jews in Israel or abroad to the extent it is. They themselves are accused of being antisemites.
Depending on your position on Israel/Palestine, the accusations of antisemite come thick and fast irrespective of whether you're an antisemite or not and indeed even if you're Jewish. That is the battleground we're getting into.
In fact I think Netanyahu's government was recently accused of being antisemitic when it tried to slow down the settler movement. It's frequently a religious fundamentalist and political argument that goes way, way beyond our secular view of discrimination and racial prejudice. That's why the attempt to equate anti-Zionism with antisemitism is so dangerous as it risks actually shutting down criticism of some very extreme and in their own way racist beliefs and actions.
Netanyahu is a total tool - I think most people can agree on that.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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I see The Maximum Leader on 22:29 - Aug 13 with 2302 views
I see The Maximum Leader on 22:22 - Aug 13 by lowhouseblue
and your refusal to try and build a coalition bigger than you and the people who agree with everything you think leaves you impotent and uninvolved. but your smugness survives nonetheless.
Whoa!
The PLP itself tried to push Corbyn out. It's not my "refusal to try and build a coalition bigger than you and the people who agree with everything you think" that's the problem. Labour is eating itself because it wants to be a middle of the road, centrist party. When that's not what the country particularly wants or needs. We need a party that will halt a slide to the right or at the very least provide some genuine balance, opposition and an actual alternative.
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