Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking 21:07 - Aug 16 with 21210 viewspickles110564

Made her feel scared again like when she was a child. He should be ashamed.
How can you supporters of his not deny how bad he has behaved?
0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:08 - Aug 18 with 1342 viewsDarth_Koont

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:02 - Aug 18 by JETPower

You said my outrage was 'convenient', and obviously that was pointed.

You also chose to equate the filth to something else. I'm afraid you did that.

You juxtaposed it with another accusation (which I think false anyway, but that doesn't really matter), then said you didn't know which was worse.

You were wrong to equate it, wrong to invent a framework with which to do so, and wrong even within that framework that they were in any way equivalent.

It's clear which is worse, both within your framework and outside it. You'd do yourself a favour by admitting that rather than continuing to rely on the semantics that have failed you.

No right-minded person wants to 'make a bigger and more political case' out of the final solution, or historical anti-semitism, or the very real and documented - and endemic - anti-semitism that is clearly present and growing in the UK now, among Labour supporters and elsewhere (and it would be easy to find 8 offending items per day from Corbyn followers, why you'd argue against that I don't know, it's everywhere, but I'm not volunteering to collect it).

I'm not sure you could 'make a bigger and more political case' anyway, or why you would think other right-minded people would do that. It IS big and it is political, by its essence. There's no amplification or assistance required. You must understand that. And the idea that combating anti-semitism is 'spreading hate' negates the fact that anti-semitism is hateful in of itself, in a way pushing back is not.

By suggesting that in British politics Jewish people, or the centre-left (they seem interchangeable as enemies to some) are trying to artificially weaponise this, you do enable those comments and more like it - unwittingly and inadvertently I'm sure - and flirt with at least a couple of anti-semitic tropes in doing do. You give the appearance of sharing a logic with people you do not want to share a logic with, and that is when and why discussions become difficult. It's a dangerous space where you can easily make embarrassing missteps like the one you made earlier.

We're better than that, as a board/community, or at least we used to be.


I'm tired of this.

By now, I've explained exactly what I meant. Despite your continued willingness to tell me what I meant.

Pronouns: He/Him

-1
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:13 - Aug 18 with 1327 viewsJETPower

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking (n/t) on 11:06 - Aug 18 by Aaron_Spelling

[Post edited 18 Aug 2018 11:07]


Best case is you didn't know the meaning of what you said, and I'm an optimist. Disappointing you didn't reflect and retract as it was worth pulling back from.

I'm tired of it too. It's a scourge and that shouldn't be up for debate at all.
0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking (n/t) on 11:15 - Aug 18 with 1287 viewsGlasgowBlue

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking (n/t) on 11:06 - Aug 18 by Aaron_Spelling

[Post edited 18 Aug 2018 11:07]


Oops!

Iron Lion Zion
Poll: Our best central defensive partnership?
Blog: [Blog] For the Sake of My Football Club, Please Go

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:17 - Aug 18 with 1303 viewsDarth_Koont

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:13 - Aug 18 by JETPower

Best case is you didn't know the meaning of what you said, and I'm an optimist. Disappointing you didn't reflect and retract as it was worth pulling back from.

I'm tired of it too. It's a scourge and that shouldn't be up for debate at all.


In your opinion.

But you can report it to Phil if you still think it's shockingly disgraceful or whatever it was you said.

Pronouns: He/Him

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:19 - Aug 18 with 1281 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 21:32 - Aug 17 by J2BLUE

Final solution, holy sh1t.

How much of that can be pinned on Corbyn though? I appreciate he needs to introduce a zero tolerance policy to stamp it out so he isn't innocent but those comments are not his.


Which of the 3 links on that tweet do I need to click to see the bit you are highlighting and is it easy to find from there?

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:23 - Aug 18 with 1271 viewsRyorry

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:08 - Aug 18 by Darth_Koont

I'm tired of this.

By now, I've explained exactly what I meant. Despite your continued willingness to tell me what I meant.


I agree that in a thread like this and on this topic generally, it's incredibly difficult to explain with 100% precision *exactly* what we do mean, because it's all so subtle, with a 1% shade of this, and a 2% nick of that as we weave our way down, citing this that and the other example, who said what (politicians, anti-semites, Jewish people, TWTD members etc.) - it's like trying to delicately steer a way down the Cresta run without touching the sides!

Maybe write a statement of exactly what you yourself do mean, without necessarily referencing any of those other people or what they think? I'm pretty sure you're not anti-semitic! but you're not exactly coming across very well here - same goes for Banksy ...

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:28 - Aug 18 with 1253 viewsDarth_Koont

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:23 - Aug 18 by Ryorry

I agree that in a thread like this and on this topic generally, it's incredibly difficult to explain with 100% precision *exactly* what we do mean, because it's all so subtle, with a 1% shade of this, and a 2% nick of that as we weave our way down, citing this that and the other example, who said what (politicians, anti-semites, Jewish people, TWTD members etc.) - it's like trying to delicately steer a way down the Cresta run without touching the sides!

Maybe write a statement of exactly what you yourself do mean, without necessarily referencing any of those other people or what they think? I'm pretty sure you're not anti-semitic! but you're not exactly coming across very well here - same goes for Banksy ...


It's there already. Better to say what part you don't agree with.

JET did that and while it's obvious I still disagree with him, I at least I understood what he had interpreted differently.

Pronouns: He/Him

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:30 - Aug 18 with 1233 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:19 - Aug 18 by BanksterDebtSlave

Which of the 3 links on that tweet do I need to click to see the bit you are highlighting and is it easy to find from there?


Why the down vote for a genuine question Glasgow?

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

0
Login to get fewer ads

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:32 - Aug 18 with 1235 viewsCoachRob

Probably not worth mentioning the views of Jewish voice for Labour as they don't fit the narrative but they are here for those who want to open their minds.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/why-the-man-who-drafted-the-ihra-de
0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:37 - Aug 18 with 1214 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:23 - Aug 18 by Ryorry

I agree that in a thread like this and on this topic generally, it's incredibly difficult to explain with 100% precision *exactly* what we do mean, because it's all so subtle, with a 1% shade of this, and a 2% nick of that as we weave our way down, citing this that and the other example, who said what (politicians, anti-semites, Jewish people, TWTD members etc.) - it's like trying to delicately steer a way down the Cresta run without touching the sides!

Maybe write a statement of exactly what you yourself do mean, without necessarily referencing any of those other people or what they think? I'm pretty sure you're not anti-semitic! but you're not exactly coming across very well here - same goes for Banksy ...


You know that fable about shouting wolf. Well we all accept there are wolves out there but if you shout it at the wrong time (and sometimes at sheep) it can have unexpected consequences. Furthermore if you keep shouting it really loud then real wolves will start to hear and be drawn nearer!
I think that's it.
[Post edited 18 Aug 2018 11:44]

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:45 - Aug 18 with 1199 viewsRyorry

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:28 - Aug 18 by Darth_Koont

It's there already. Better to say what part you don't agree with.

JET did that and while it's obvious I still disagree with him, I at least I understood what he had interpreted differently.


That would be like trying to fillet a thousand fishes without disturbing either flesh or bone! Just one example maybe:- "A lot of people are getting very worried about antisemitism as endemic to Labour under Corbyn. That's pure fear-mongering." (your post on the previous page, my italics).

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:46 - Aug 18 with 1189 viewsJETPower

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:32 - Aug 18 by CoachRob

Probably not worth mentioning the views of Jewish voice for Labour as they don't fit the narrative but they are here for those who want to open their minds.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/why-the-man-who-drafted-the-ihra-de


https://antisemitism.uk/why-the-so-called-jewish-voice-for-labour-is-a-sham/
0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:48 - Aug 18 with 1180 viewsRyorry

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:37 - Aug 18 by BanksterDebtSlave

You know that fable about shouting wolf. Well we all accept there are wolves out there but if you shout it at the wrong time (and sometimes at sheep) it can have unexpected consequences. Furthermore if you keep shouting it really loud then real wolves will start to hear and be drawn nearer!
I think that's it.
[Post edited 18 Aug 2018 11:44]


With yourself, it's as much what you *haven't* said, as what you have (and the tone of some of the things you've said, esp your reaction to the sh1tpile of horrific tweets that GB posted).

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:52 - Aug 18 with 1151 viewsGlasgowBlue

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:46 - Aug 18 by JETPower

https://antisemitism.uk/why-the-so-called-jewish-voice-for-labour-is-a-sham/


Indeed. The JVL have 25 times less members than The Jewish Labour movement and a good number of JVL members aren’t actually Jewish but simply joined to support Corbyn against allegations of antisemitism.

Iron Lion Zion
Poll: Our best central defensive partnership?
Blog: [Blog] For the Sake of My Football Club, Please Go

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:54 - Aug 18 with 1164 viewsnoggin

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:45 - Aug 18 by Ryorry

That would be like trying to fillet a thousand fishes without disturbing either flesh or bone! Just one example maybe:- "A lot of people are getting very worried about antisemitism as endemic to Labour under Corbyn. That's pure fear-mongering." (your post on the previous page, my italics).


Isn't a part of the problem that anti-semitism isn't as obvious as Islamophobia or racism against black people or even romany gypsies? I have never personally heard anyone state that they dislike Jews, or that Jews should all be "go back to where they came from". In fact, I've never even heard anyone talk about British Jews (apart from recent news articles), either positively or negatively.

Poll: Which team thread should I participate in?

1
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:54 - Aug 18 with 1156 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:48 - Aug 18 by Ryorry

With yourself, it's as much what you *haven't* said, as what you have (and the tone of some of the things you've said, esp your reaction to the sh1tpile of horrific tweets that GB posted).


Which you completely misinterpreted (twice). I also twice yesterday alone said "one case is too many!"
What else haven't I said that you take issue with? (Is it "my favourite football team is Na,......".....no can't do it!)

Glasgow puts lots of shocking links up it is often just not clear what they have to do with the Labour party!
[Post edited 18 Aug 2018 11:57]

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:57 - Aug 18 with 1153 viewsDarth_Koont

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:32 - Aug 18 by CoachRob

Probably not worth mentioning the views of Jewish voice for Labour as they don't fit the narrative but they are here for those who want to open their minds.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/why-the-man-who-drafted-the-ihra-de


Very good. Thanks.

It's also worth reading Stern's testimony, particularly how he sees the definition being abused in borderline cases because of its ability to shut down criticism. That in itself is often the goal. But also how it would work poorly if it's enshrined in law as in this case when Stern is talking about the ability to criticise and debate with pro-Israel or indeed pro-Zionist students:

"But in the narrow question of whether students may be targeted because they are part of a Jewish ethnicity, or because they support Israel, adoption of the Department of State antisemitism definition into law would skew this inquiry, suggesting that anti-Zionist actions are motivated by antisemitism, not political disagreement."

In other words, in the eyes of such a law, political disagreement would be outlawed as antisemitism just the same as"regular" and revolting hatred of Jews.

https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Stern-Testimony-11.07.17.

Pronouns: He/Him

-1
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:03 - Aug 18 with 1133 viewsDarth_Koont

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:45 - Aug 18 by Ryorry

That would be like trying to fillet a thousand fishes without disturbing either flesh or bone! Just one example maybe:- "A lot of people are getting very worried about antisemitism as endemic to Labour under Corbyn. That's pure fear-mongering." (your post on the previous page, my italics).


Fair enough. That wasn't clear. I meant the insistence that it's endemic is the fear-mongering — the worry is the result.

Did you happen to catch the Jewish couple who were interviewed about their decision to leave the UK because of this and what they perceive as Corbyn's role in the rise of antisemitism? They came across as positively unhinged by the whole thing.

Pronouns: He/Him

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:06 - Aug 18 with 1124 viewsRyorry

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:54 - Aug 18 by BanksterDebtSlave

Which you completely misinterpreted (twice). I also twice yesterday alone said "one case is too many!"
What else haven't I said that you take issue with? (Is it "my favourite football team is Na,......".....no can't do it!)

Glasgow puts lots of shocking links up it is often just not clear what they have to do with the Labour party!
[Post edited 18 Aug 2018 11:57]


You need to express yourself a great deal better then!

I can only say that those specific links (to the tweets) GB put up, & their relevance to the discussion, was perfectly clear to me.

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:06 - Aug 18 with 1120 viewsCoachRob

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 11:52 - Aug 18 by GlasgowBlue

Indeed. The JVL have 25 times less members than The Jewish Labour movement and a good number of JVL members aren’t actually Jewish but simply joined to support Corbyn against allegations of antisemitism.


Finally GlasgowBlue, if there are Jewish people who don't your narrative they don't count - who is the anti-Semite?
0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:12 - Aug 18 with 1090 viewsGlasgowBlue

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:06 - Aug 18 by Ryorry

You need to express yourself a great deal better then!

I can only say that those specific links (to the tweets) GB put up, & their relevance to the discussion, was perfectly clear to me.


I'm done with replying to Banksy as he is an obvious troll. He claims not to see the reference to a "final solution" despite it being on a post he replied to



He says that none of my links are clear that they have anything to do with Labour and yet one of the links he is questioning clearly states "Anti-Semitic row Newcastle councillor WILL stand for Labour at local elections"

From the general tone of his posts he isn't s stupid person yet he never sees what is put in front of him. I call that trolling and it's not a subject that anyone should be trolling about.

Iron Lion Zion
Poll: Our best central defensive partnership?
Blog: [Blog] For the Sake of My Football Club, Please Go

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:13 - Aug 18 with 1088 viewsRyorry

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:03 - Aug 18 by Darth_Koont

Fair enough. That wasn't clear. I meant the insistence that it's endemic is the fear-mongering — the worry is the result.

Did you happen to catch the Jewish couple who were interviewed about their decision to leave the UK because of this and what they perceive as Corbyn's role in the rise of antisemitism? They came across as positively unhinged by the whole thing.


OK. No I didn't (re the couple) so can't really comment on that. But I think that if you've relied on the "good old Labour Party" all your life to be there, standing up for minorities and their rights plus "doing the right thing" generally, their current position + the momentum influence is actually genuinely worrying and scary - and that that's so for many people who are simply moderate, not just for Jewish people.

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:13 - Aug 18 with 1085 viewsGlasgowBlue

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:06 - Aug 18 by CoachRob

Finally GlasgowBlue, if there are Jewish people who don't your narrative they don't count - who is the anti-Semite?


Could you please re post that in English for me?

Iron Lion Zion
Poll: Our best central defensive partnership?
Blog: [Blog] For the Sake of My Football Club, Please Go

0
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:33 - Aug 18 with 1058 viewsDarth_Koont

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:13 - Aug 18 by Ryorry

OK. No I didn't (re the couple) so can't really comment on that. But I think that if you've relied on the "good old Labour Party" all your life to be there, standing up for minorities and their rights plus "doing the right thing" generally, their current position + the momentum influence is actually genuinely worrying and scary - and that that's so for many people who are simply moderate, not just for Jewish people.


The "Corbyn is a threat to right-minded, sensible people" is the umbrella campaign.

We've had Corbyn as the Marxist boogeyman, the terrorist lover, the Jew hater, the treacherous spy, ... they're at best fantasies but of course opponents know that getting an emotional response is far more valuable than actually addressing what Corbyn really says or believes in these areas.

I'd rather not give this level of debate the time of day, let alone get embroiled in all the suppositions, missed points and insinuations that are needed to keep it going.

Pronouns: He/Him

-1
How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:35 - Aug 18 with 1047 viewsGlasgowBlue

How Dame Margaret Hodge has been treated by Corbyn is shocking on 12:03 - Aug 18 by Darth_Koont

Fair enough. That wasn't clear. I meant the insistence that it's endemic is the fear-mongering — the worry is the result.

Did you happen to catch the Jewish couple who were interviewed about their decision to leave the UK because of this and what they perceive as Corbyn's role in the rise of antisemitism? They came across as positively unhinged by the whole thing.


You mean MS sufferer Mark Lewis, the lawyer who took on Murdoch over the Milly Dowler phone hacking, whose speech is affected by his disease? He came across as unhinged because he has been a victim of antisemtism?

I didn't think you could sink much lower on this thread. But somehow you managed it.

Perhaps you should watch that video again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45201412/we-re-leaving-the-uk-because-of-anti-s

Iron Lion Zion
Poll: Our best central defensive partnership?
Blog: [Blog] For the Sake of My Football Club, Please Go

1
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© TWTD 1995-2024