| Hurst and playing the youngsters... 13:47 - Aug 17 with 3852 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Just a couple of quotes to point our from Hurst;
On Bishop: "I have seen enough in training already to see that he has real ability and can contribute this season. He can be a real player for us."
Paul Hurst says @ted10bishop can make a big impact for #itfc this campaign.
On Dozzell: “Andre’s desperate to play football and I fully understand that and I’d much rather have someone like that than someone who’s like, ‘I’ll just stay here, it’s an easier life’.
“But he’s got to understand that it’s for his long-term future, not September, not October, but I’m talking 2020, 2021 or whatever it is for him.
Certainly sounds to me like Bishop has a big part to play, and Dozzell has not been 'dropped' by any stretch of the imagination.
|  |
| |  |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 13:57 - Aug 17 with 3031 views | Blue_Dwarf |
The test that has identified Dozzell potentionally injuring his knee again is concerning. What if that test never gets passed, does he just never play again? Why was Dozzell playing pre season games & u.23 games, surely if it could happen again it doesn’t matter what level of game he is playing in?
Sounds like Dozzell thinks he is fit enough to play.
All rather interesting and way above my expertise. |  | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:00 - Aug 17 with 3003 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 13:57 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
The test that has identified Dozzell potentionally injuring his knee again is concerning. What if that test never gets passed, does he just never play again? Why was Dozzell playing pre season games & u.23 games, surely if it could happen again it doesn’t matter what level of game he is playing in?
Sounds like Dozzell thinks he is fit enough to play.
All rather interesting and way above my expertise. |
I would certainly trust specialists ahead of the player himself.
I suspect that just want to delay his comeback until they are sure his body is as ready as it can be.
Given what happened to Hyam and Bishop in the past, I can only applaud Hurst for his approach on this. | |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:03 - Aug 17 with 2993 views | Blue_Dwarf |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:00 - Aug 17 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I would certainly trust specialists ahead of the player himself.
I suspect that just want to delay his comeback until they are sure his body is as ready as it can be.
Given what happened to Hyam and Bishop in the past, I can only applaud Hurst for his approach on this. |
But if it has highlighted a weakness why is he risked being played in pre season and u.23 games?
Any football match activity could risk injury again no matter what the standard they are playing surely? | | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:06 - Aug 17 with 2980 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:03 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
But if it has highlighted a weakness why is he risked being played in pre season and u.23 games?
Any football match activity could risk injury again no matter what the standard they are playing surely? |
Friendlies and U23 games lack the intensity of a Championship game, thats why they are used to test players and get players back to fitness.
Also, I got the impression that the test has only just identified the issue, so Hurst cant go back in time and rest him from those matches. | |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:13 - Aug 17 with 2949 views | Blue_Dwarf |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:06 - Aug 17 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Friendlies and U23 games lack the intensity of a Championship game, thats why they are used to test players and get players back to fitness.
Also, I got the impression that the test has only just identified the issue, so Hurst cant go back in time and rest him from those matches. |
Realise it’s not the same intensity but the movements would still be the same and Dozzer played the u.23 game the other day despite failing the test that identifies the issue.
In my opinion I’m with Andre if he thinks he is fit enough to play and has been allowed by the experts to play u.23 games and pre season games then he should be available for selection for the first team as the risk is still there playing u.23 games.
What if this test never gets passed does he just give up on his career?
Science and testing is great tool which should be utilised however every individual is different and therefore there should be a human element to it too. For example a Pirlo wouldn’t necessarily pass the same fitness tests as a Pogba. Different players different roles/attributes. | | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:17 - Aug 17 with 2928 views | ParisBlue |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:00 - Aug 17 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I would certainly trust specialists ahead of the player himself.
I suspect that just want to delay his comeback until they are sure his body is as ready as it can be.
Given what happened to Hyam and Bishop in the past, I can only applaud Hurst for his approach on this. |
I wonder what test Tom Adeyemi is failing? |  |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:31 - Aug 17 with 2874 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:13 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
Realise it’s not the same intensity but the movements would still be the same and Dozzer played the u.23 game the other day despite failing the test that identifies the issue.
In my opinion I’m with Andre if he thinks he is fit enough to play and has been allowed by the experts to play u.23 games and pre season games then he should be available for selection for the first team as the risk is still there playing u.23 games.
What if this test never gets passed does he just give up on his career?
Science and testing is great tool which should be utilised however every individual is different and therefore there should be a human element to it too. For example a Pirlo wouldn’t necessarily pass the same fitness tests as a Pogba. Different players different roles/attributes. |
We'll have to agree to differ.
I think you're reading way too much into it saying the test may prevent him playing again, its just about managing risk.
Trusting purely the players judgement over medical experts is a bit 1970's. | |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:49 - Aug 17 with 2834 views | Blue_Dwarf |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:31 - Aug 17 by Marshalls_Mullet |
We'll have to agree to differ.
I think you're reading way too much into it saying the test may prevent him playing again, its just about managing risk.
Trusting purely the players judgement over medical experts is a bit 1970's. |
Fair enough. I’m not saying to just go with the players judgment, however to just go on a test / statistic approach is also wrong as there needs to be element of both scientific testing & human interaction approach to it as everyone is different regarding testing, like my example on the difference between a Pirlo & a Pogba in their style / strengths. Dozzell’s style is more of a holding midfielder so his fitness stats will be totally different to a box to box midfielder.
Can you see what I mean about if the test shows he’s potentially going to injure it again why is he even being allowed to play u.23 football and why was he allowed to play pre season games and be named on the subs bench first league game? His body will go through the same movements despite what standard of game is taking place.
I think Hurst has signed too many new inexperienced players and he’s got an easy “get out” on stating Dozzell isn’t fit as he doesn’t know how he can select him in his current team without having a midfield with very little experience in it, or leaving a newly signed player out.
It’s easiest option for him to just not pick Dozzell and state he’s not passed this test. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:00 - Aug 17 with 2802 views | TractorJack |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:49 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
Fair enough. I’m not saying to just go with the players judgment, however to just go on a test / statistic approach is also wrong as there needs to be element of both scientific testing & human interaction approach to it as everyone is different regarding testing, like my example on the difference between a Pirlo & a Pogba in their style / strengths. Dozzell’s style is more of a holding midfielder so his fitness stats will be totally different to a box to box midfielder.
Can you see what I mean about if the test shows he’s potentially going to injure it again why is he even being allowed to play u.23 football and why was he allowed to play pre season games and be named on the subs bench first league game? His body will go through the same movements despite what standard of game is taking place.
I think Hurst has signed too many new inexperienced players and he’s got an easy “get out” on stating Dozzell isn’t fit as he doesn’t know how he can select him in his current team without having a midfield with very little experience in it, or leaving a newly signed player out.
It’s easiest option for him to just not pick Dozzell and state he’s not passed this test. |
Was the risk identified before the U23 game? Has that been mentioned somewhere? |  | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:01 - Aug 17 with 2798 views | Guthrum |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:49 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
Fair enough. I’m not saying to just go with the players judgment, however to just go on a test / statistic approach is also wrong as there needs to be element of both scientific testing & human interaction approach to it as everyone is different regarding testing, like my example on the difference between a Pirlo & a Pogba in their style / strengths. Dozzell’s style is more of a holding midfielder so his fitness stats will be totally different to a box to box midfielder.
Can you see what I mean about if the test shows he’s potentially going to injure it again why is he even being allowed to play u.23 football and why was he allowed to play pre season games and be named on the subs bench first league game? His body will go through the same movements despite what standard of game is taking place.
I think Hurst has signed too many new inexperienced players and he’s got an easy “get out” on stating Dozzell isn’t fit as he doesn’t know how he can select him in his current team without having a midfield with very little experience in it, or leaving a newly signed player out.
It’s easiest option for him to just not pick Dozzell and state he’s not passed this test. |
If Dozzell is better and fitter than Skuse and Chalobah, why would Hurst not want to play him? If he wins matches, nobody is going to care if it's a new signing or Academy product, least of all the manager. He's used Chalobah anyway, who is no more experienced than Dozzell, so that obviously makes no difference. |  |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:03 - Aug 17 with 2786 views | Plums |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:49 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
Fair enough. I’m not saying to just go with the players judgment, however to just go on a test / statistic approach is also wrong as there needs to be element of both scientific testing & human interaction approach to it as everyone is different regarding testing, like my example on the difference between a Pirlo & a Pogba in their style / strengths. Dozzell’s style is more of a holding midfielder so his fitness stats will be totally different to a box to box midfielder.
Can you see what I mean about if the test shows he’s potentially going to injure it again why is he even being allowed to play u.23 football and why was he allowed to play pre season games and be named on the subs bench first league game? His body will go through the same movements despite what standard of game is taking place.
I think Hurst has signed too many new inexperienced players and he’s got an easy “get out” on stating Dozzell isn’t fit as he doesn’t know how he can select him in his current team without having a midfield with very little experience in it, or leaving a newly signed player out.
It’s easiest option for him to just not pick Dozzell and state he’s not passed this test. |
Blimey, that’s a bit of a leap. He’s clearly protecting Andre as he’s potentially a huge asset. If there’s another month or so of work needed to protect that knee then it’s the right thing to do for the player and the club.
You only have to look at the numbers of crippled ex players to know what trusting the player or masking an injury can do. |  |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:07 - Aug 17 with 2766 views | Blue_Dwarf |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:01 - Aug 17 by Guthrum |
If Dozzell is better and fitter than Skuse and Chalobah, why would Hurst not want to play him? If he wins matches, nobody is going to care if it's a new signing or Academy product, least of all the manager. He's used Chalobah anyway, who is no more experienced than Dozzell, so that obviously makes no difference. |
If Hurst spends the owners money on bringing new players in but doesn’t then select them the owner will quite rightly question why he funded the new player for him to not play which puts Hurst under more pressure.
Hurst probably sees a midfield of Chalobah, Dozzell & Nolan as too inexperienced.
Hurst mentioned in his first press conference the squad was unbalanced but it is even more unbalanced now due to the lack of experience in it. We only have about 4 players who are seasoned championship players. | | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:10 - Aug 17 with 2745 views | Blue_Dwarf |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:03 - Aug 17 by Plums |
Blimey, that’s a bit of a leap. He’s clearly protecting Andre as he’s potentially a huge asset. If there’s another month or so of work needed to protect that knee then it’s the right thing to do for the player and the club.
You only have to look at the numbers of crippled ex players to know what trusting the player or masking an injury can do. |
But this test has identified potential of it reoccurring however he is allowed to play u.23 games and throughout pre season? Why?
Potential of injury is still there and just as likely playing those games instead of first team games. [Post edited 17 Aug 2018 15:10]
| | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:14 - Aug 17 with 2716 views | IpswichKnight |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:10 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
But this test has identified potential of it reoccurring however he is allowed to play u.23 games and throughout pre season? Why?
Potential of injury is still there and just as likely playing those games instead of first team games. [Post edited 17 Aug 2018 15:10]
|
It was picked up after those games, that's why they look at the data it highlights any areas which are a concern. | | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:16 - Aug 17 with 2703 views | ITFCBlues |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:10 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
But this test has identified potential of it reoccurring however he is allowed to play u.23 games and throughout pre season? Why?
Potential of injury is still there and just as likely playing those games instead of first team games. [Post edited 17 Aug 2018 15:10]
|
Do you know when they got the results of the test?
It sounds to me as though this is something they've only really just found out.... |  |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:18 - Aug 17 with 2695 views | Blue_Dwarf |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:16 - Aug 17 by ITFCBlues |
Do you know when they got the results of the test?
It sounds to me as though this is something they've only really just found out.... |
I’d assumed it was prior to the Rotherham game which explains why Dozzell was not selected on the bench for that match.
He’s played u.23s this week.
If they have only just discovered it is damn lucky he didn’t get injured during pre season when he featured a lot. | | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:31 - Aug 17 with 2654 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 14:49 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
Fair enough. I’m not saying to just go with the players judgment, however to just go on a test / statistic approach is also wrong as there needs to be element of both scientific testing & human interaction approach to it as everyone is different regarding testing, like my example on the difference between a Pirlo & a Pogba in their style / strengths. Dozzell’s style is more of a holding midfielder so his fitness stats will be totally different to a box to box midfielder.
Can you see what I mean about if the test shows he’s potentially going to injure it again why is he even being allowed to play u.23 football and why was he allowed to play pre season games and be named on the subs bench first league game? His body will go through the same movements despite what standard of game is taking place.
I think Hurst has signed too many new inexperienced players and he’s got an easy “get out” on stating Dozzell isn’t fit as he doesn’t know how he can select him in his current team without having a midfield with very little experience in it, or leaving a newly signed player out.
It’s easiest option for him to just not pick Dozzell and state he’s not passed this test. |
I really dont think he's made up an excuse to not pick Dozzell.
I dont think not picking Dozzell is the easy option at all. | |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:46 - Aug 17 with 2507 views | itfcjoe |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:10 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
But this test has identified potential of it reoccurring however he is allowed to play u.23 games and throughout pre season? Why?
Potential of injury is still there and just as likely playing those games instead of first team games. [Post edited 17 Aug 2018 15:10]
|
I assume they think that it is ok there and in training but higher intensity of Championship could expose it |  |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:54 - Aug 17 with 2468 views | ITFCBlues |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:18 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
I’d assumed it was prior to the Rotherham game which explains why Dozzell was not selected on the bench for that match.
He’s played u.23s this week.
If they have only just discovered it is damn lucky he didn’t get injured during pre season when he featured a lot. |
You’ve assumed wrong. PH has already come out and said that his fitness levels are no where near the levels he requires. This is more than likely backed up with the increased presence of sports science. That’s why he’s not been in the last 2 squads.
Just because they’ve discovered this doesn’t mean his career is over. They may just need to manage him slightly differently to get the best out of his body. Who knows what it means exactly.
But what we do currently is that he’s not in the side because his fitness levels are way below what’s required. | |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 17:56 - Aug 17 with 2325 views | Guthrum |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:07 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
If Hurst spends the owners money on bringing new players in but doesn’t then select them the owner will quite rightly question why he funded the new player for him to not play which puts Hurst under more pressure.
Hurst probably sees a midfield of Chalobah, Dozzell & Nolan as too inexperienced.
Hurst mentioned in his first press conference the squad was unbalanced but it is even more unbalanced now due to the lack of experience in it. We only have about 4 players who are seasoned championship players. |
If Hurst fields inferior players to save face and loses games, then the Owner will be a lot more annoyed. Plus, of course, players can be brought in as cover for positions, not just to play.
Nolan is far from lacking experience, with 259 senior appearances to his name. Funny that the players coming up with Rotherham, Blackburn and Wigan are not seen as too inexperienced to thrive in the Championship. | |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 18:57 - Aug 17 with 2263 views | PJH |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 17:56 - Aug 17 by Guthrum |
If Hurst fields inferior players to save face and loses games, then the Owner will be a lot more annoyed. Plus, of course, players can be brought in as cover for positions, not just to play.
Nolan is far from lacking experience, with 259 senior appearances to his name. Funny that the players coming up with Rotherham, Blackburn and Wigan are not seen as too inexperienced to thrive in the Championship. |
I don't think any of Rotherham,Blackburn and Wigan(and therefore their players) will thrive in the Championship and I would think at least two of them will be involved in a relegation battle for much of it not all of the season.
I hope Garner does well at Wigan though. |  | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 19:10 - Aug 17 with 2243 views | Blue_Dwarf |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 15:46 - Aug 17 by itfcjoe |
I assume they think that it is ok there and in training but higher intensity of Championship could expose it |
All seems a bit odd though in my opinion, he’s either injured and not available for selection at all or he should be available for selection for the first team if he’s considered available for u.23 football. Chances of injury remain the same, it’s a game of football just lower standard of players and not in front of a huge crowd. I could go play 5 a side (higher intensity) for example or 11 a side
(Lower intensity) and still get injured in either.
Also the lacking fitness levels is not a fair argument when majority of our new signings didn’t participate in our pre season with some not even being allowed to train at their own clubs due to transfer requests therefore they must be lacking fitness too which is maybe why we have flagged in 2nd half of fixtures in my opinion.
Despite what Hurst said at his first presser about what he inherited I believe the squad now is seriously more unbalanced and really lacking experience therefore Hurst does not feel he can field Chabolah & Dozzell in same midfield with one of Edun, Skuse, Nolan, Bishop (when fit) or Huws (when fit). Add Downes and Nydam to the mix it really is a ridiculously unbalanced squad when we lack strikers and centre half’s. [Post edited 17 Aug 2018 19:49]
| | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 19:22 - Aug 17 with 2222 views | Blue_Dwarf |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 17:56 - Aug 17 by Guthrum |
If Hurst fields inferior players to save face and loses games, then the Owner will be a lot more annoyed. Plus, of course, players can be brought in as cover for positions, not just to play.
Nolan is far from lacking experience, with 259 senior appearances to his name. Funny that the players coming up with Rotherham, Blackburn and Wigan are not seen as too inexperienced to thrive in the Championship. |
Nolan is a good little player from limited game time we have seen however was he really required when he have lack of depth in other areas? As he’s a Hurst player from previous he will no doubt play all the time but say when Huws Dozzell and Bishop are back fit he should have a tough time retaining his place if Chabolah keeps up from where he started. That doesn’t even consider Skuse, Edun or even Downes & Nydam who both have championship experience. I was expecting Hurst to be a manager who gave our youth players opportunities but they are being prevented by lower league signings (who may turn out to be excellent players) and young loan players.
Squad depth in central midfield is now ridiculous compared to centre back, left wing and striker positions.
Add the inexperience of none of the new signings having played this level before I believe the squad is now more unbalanced than what Hurst inherited. [Post edited 17 Aug 2018 19:23]
| | | |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 20:15 - Aug 17 with 2138 views | itfcjoe |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 19:10 - Aug 17 by Blue_Dwarf |
All seems a bit odd though in my opinion, he’s either injured and not available for selection at all or he should be available for selection for the first team if he’s considered available for u.23 football. Chances of injury remain the same, it’s a game of football just lower standard of players and not in front of a huge crowd. I could go play 5 a side (higher intensity) for example or 11 a side
(Lower intensity) and still get injured in either.
Also the lacking fitness levels is not a fair argument when majority of our new signings didn’t participate in our pre season with some not even being allowed to train at their own clubs due to transfer requests therefore they must be lacking fitness too which is maybe why we have flagged in 2nd half of fixtures in my opinion.
Despite what Hurst said at his first presser about what he inherited I believe the squad now is seriously more unbalanced and really lacking experience therefore Hurst does not feel he can field Chabolah & Dozzell in same midfield with one of Edun, Skuse, Nolan, Bishop (when fit) or Huws (when fit). Add Downes and Nydam to the mix it really is a ridiculously unbalanced squad when we lack strikers and centre half’s. [Post edited 17 Aug 2018 19:49]
|
But players play in the U23s to get fit enough to play in the first team when coming back from injury. They can play their own game at that level, doing what they need to do to get through it.
Of course there is a risk of injury, but there is a risk of injury walking down the stairs - he's clearly having his fitness managed and that includes U23 football | |
| |
| Hurst and playing the youngsters... on 20:35 - Aug 17 with 2091 views | NthQldITFC |
Presumably if they've identified a specific potential problem area in the knee, they'll put him on a very targeted additional exercise routine to compensate for whatever imbalance is there, to help prevent the potential injury occurring. Then retest and continue to monitor, throughout his career. Meanwhile he can work up his general fitness and strength.
If this is how they're doing things these days, I think its 100% right for the player and the club, and we don't need to get stressed about whether he should be in team now or next week. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
