| The dream is turning into a nightmare 20:04 - Aug 31 with 10148 views | muhrensleftfoot |
So thrilled when we heard Hurst's first press conference. That friendly against West Ham with Nydam Downes and Dozzell bossing the midfield. Woolfenden looking cool and composed at the back. Now bottom of the league with 6 loanees a la Paul Jewell, the young academy talent overlooked or loaned out . Really concerned for us now, more than ever in my 50 years supporting ITFC. Oh I so hope this experiment works but feeling quite despondent about it all. 3 points against Norwich will cheer me up. |  | | |  |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:10 - Aug 31 with 5391 views | christiand |
It does look a bit of a mess at the moment. I agree it does have that feel of the PJ era with the amount of loan players we have in the squad, PH seems no nearer to knowing his best starting XI and the fact we are bottom of the league doesn’t help matters. However, if we smash those from up the road on Sunday, things will suddenly look a little brighter and we’ll all feel so much better and optimistic going into that international break! [Post edited 31 Aug 2018 20:23]
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:13 - Aug 31 with 5359 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
A nightmare? Get a grip.
We lost 10 players and needed an overhaul anyway. Then we sold three players for combined big money and it became a rebuilding job buying quality from the lower leagues.
We then started badly and we’ve gone for experience in Walters over raw talent like Morris to supplement the squad and bring in some additional leadership.
We’ve signed some decent players. It is five games in. I’m sure not everything has gone to plan but it’s hardly a nightmare. It’s a large period of redevelopment of the squad which was partly enforced, needed and will take time to settle down. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:21 - Aug 31 with 5293 views | tiptreeblue |
We played a West Ham side who looked like they didn`t want to be there, which definitely made our players look better with time to play, also i don`t think that midfield could live anywhere near the likes of the vast majority of the midfeild`s in the championship at present. He had to strengthen that dept. Give him time, which some of you people obviously don`t want to give him, and we will be fine. i really wouldn`t want to be in a really bad situation as you would all panic like schoolchildren | | | |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:32 - Aug 31 with 5203 views | Plums |
Except PH and Doig have a very clear and consistent approach to the game that has reaped rewards. They are recruiting players to suit that approach.
Jewell developed nothing for the long term and recruited and played players that he thought gave him a sniff of repeating previous success. He reacted to everything and seemed to have no real clue where he or the club were going.
I’d have a stiff drink before bedtime and the nightmares shouldn’t trouble you. |  |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:40 - Aug 31 with 5127 views | Mullet |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:13 - Aug 31 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
A nightmare? Get a grip.
We lost 10 players and needed an overhaul anyway. Then we sold three players for combined big money and it became a rebuilding job buying quality from the lower leagues.
We then started badly and we’ve gone for experience in Walters over raw talent like Morris to supplement the squad and bring in some additional leadership.
We’ve signed some decent players. It is five games in. I’m sure not everything has gone to plan but it’s hardly a nightmare. It’s a large period of redevelopment of the squad which was partly enforced, needed and will take time to settle down. |
We didn't "need an overhaul" Hurst chose to have one. This is a very crucial distinction and one that needs to be seen in the fact he was praising the squad he inherited and what he had to work with.
This desire to cast or insinuate every negative as a legacy of Mick's time here is totally dishonest and inaccurate. Likewise pretending that Hurst is at Jewell levels of incompetence or we're in some sort of existential crisis needs knocking on the head. |  |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:45 - Aug 31 with 5064 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:40 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
We didn't "need an overhaul" Hurst chose to have one. This is a very crucial distinction and one that needs to be seen in the fact he was praising the squad he inherited and what he had to work with.
This desire to cast or insinuate every negative as a legacy of Mick's time here is totally dishonest and inaccurate. Likewise pretending that Hurst is at Jewell levels of incompetence or we're in some sort of existential crisis needs knocking on the head. |
We lost 8-9 first team / squad players then Webster, Garner and Waghorn all decided they’d be interested in moving.
You don’t think we needed an overhaul then? Because if we didn’t we’d be starting Spence, Sears, Ward every game.
We needed players, we’ve chosen to spend funds on good lower league players who can improve an massively increase their worth as opposed to championship journeymen.
The overhaul was made necessary by key players leaving and freeing up significant funds. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:46 - Aug 31 with 5057 views | PositivelyPortman |
Can’t believe how impatient some fans are being.
Please stay calm and give PH and his team a chance.
We’ve been really unlucky with the way results have gone, plus the red card decisions, plus Bart taking a little time in settling this season.
So now, deep breaths and let’s have some positivity ffs. |  |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:48 - Aug 31 with 5027 views | Reuser_is_God |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:40 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
We didn't "need an overhaul" Hurst chose to have one. This is a very crucial distinction and one that needs to be seen in the fact he was praising the squad he inherited and what he had to work with.
This desire to cast or insinuate every negative as a legacy of Mick's time here is totally dishonest and inaccurate. Likewise pretending that Hurst is at Jewell levels of incompetence or we're in some sort of existential crisis needs knocking on the head. |
CCV
Connolly
Celina
Iorfa
Bru
Gleeson
McGoldrick
Hyam
All members of the 1st team squad he had to replace. An overhaul was always on the cards. |  |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:49 - Aug 31 with 5004 views | Mullet |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:45 - Aug 31 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
We lost 8-9 first team / squad players then Webster, Garner and Waghorn all decided they’d be interested in moving.
You don’t think we needed an overhaul then? Because if we didn’t we’d be starting Spence, Sears, Ward every game.
We needed players, we’ve chosen to spend funds on good lower league players who can improve an massively increase their worth as opposed to championship journeymen.
The overhaul was made necessary by key players leaving and freeing up significant funds. |
Hurst chose to sell them, he chose to have an overhaul. In the same way he chose not to retain players.
You are mistaking your timeline to justify this position. In the same way he chose to loan players over using our U23's since the season started. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:49 - Aug 31 with 5005 views | ipswich93 |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:40 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
We didn't "need an overhaul" Hurst chose to have one. This is a very crucial distinction and one that needs to be seen in the fact he was praising the squad he inherited and what he had to work with.
This desire to cast or insinuate every negative as a legacy of Mick's time here is totally dishonest and inaccurate. Likewise pretending that Hurst is at Jewell levels of incompetence or we're in some sort of existential crisis needs knocking on the head. |
The crisis phrase by some tho won’t be knocked on its head if we don’t win Sunday others maybe happy for a point but me nah it’s about time we broke are winless rut and against them lot especially after so long it’ll give club and fans a huge unifiying boost and show something is at least happening in the positive direction .
There has been some things I’ve been happy about but also I’ve not been happy with some of what we’ve done over last few months but I’m a patient man and I’m keeping my faith cos Rome weren’t built in day etc . At end of day we all just want something positive and exciting to cling to hence the frustrations hopefully Sunday will be that | | | |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:50 - Aug 31 with 4994 views | MMBUTB |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:40 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
We didn't "need an overhaul" Hurst chose to have one. This is a very crucial distinction and one that needs to be seen in the fact he was praising the squad he inherited and what he had to work with.
This desire to cast or insinuate every negative as a legacy of Mick's time here is totally dishonest and inaccurate. Likewise pretending that Hurst is at Jewell levels of incompetence or we're in some sort of existential crisis needs knocking on the head. |
When I read what he is doing and the players he has brought in I do feel a sense of hope. That is a feeling that I have not had for many many year.
I am biased a bit because I enjoy football and never wanted Mick all them years ago anyway but the one game I’ve seen this year there does seem to be a desire to try and play a bit.
Hopefully he needs a bit of time. I wouldn’t mind if we finished 4th from bottom this year and pushed on from there. Let’s be honest it’s been rubbish for many a year so it’s not going to turn around in a heart beat. |  | | |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:53 - Aug 31 with 4958 views | tiptreeblue |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:49 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
Hurst chose to sell them, he chose to have an overhaul. In the same way he chose not to retain players.
You are mistaking your timeline to justify this position. In the same way he chose to loan players over using our U23's since the season started. |
Why can`t you grasp the fact that all three wanted to leave. what is holding you back from seeing this? | | | |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:54 - Aug 31 with 4952 views | Reuser_is_God |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:53 - Aug 31 by tiptreeblue |
Why can`t you grasp the fact that all three wanted to leave. what is holding you back from seeing this? |
He has a blind love for Mick McCarthy. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:55 - Aug 31 with 4934 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:49 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
Hurst chose to sell them, he chose to have an overhaul. In the same way he chose not to retain players.
You are mistaking your timeline to justify this position. In the same way he chose to loan players over using our U23's since the season started. |
Because if we kept them we’d have an injury prone Garner and Webster, an unhappy Waghorn and no money to replace the 8-10 players that had left! [Post edited 31 Aug 2018 20:59]
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:56 - Aug 31 with 4933 views | Ipswich_Crazy |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:57 - Aug 31 with 4917 views | Reuser_is_God |
What an overly dramatic title of this thread. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:59 - Aug 31 with 4893 views | Mullet |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:49 - Aug 31 by ipswich93 |
The crisis phrase by some tho won’t be knocked on its head if we don’t win Sunday others maybe happy for a point but me nah it’s about time we broke are winless rut and against them lot especially after so long it’ll give club and fans a huge unifiying boost and show something is at least happening in the positive direction .
There has been some things I’ve been happy about but also I’ve not been happy with some of what we’ve done over last few months but I’m a patient man and I’m keeping my faith cos Rome weren’t built in day etc . At end of day we all just want something positive and exciting to cling to hence the frustrations hopefully Sunday will be that |
It won't and even if we do win, the start won't be completely forgotten until we build up a bit of speed. A streaky season will be fine, if we can keep the faith that there are points likely month by month.
This is a perfect moment to draw a line and settle many things, I think we could really put on a win thanks to Walters bringing things our attack has lacked and cost us games. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:00 - Aug 31 with 4879 views | Mullet |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:50 - Aug 31 by MMBUTB |
When I read what he is doing and the players he has brought in I do feel a sense of hope. That is a feeling that I have not had for many many year.
I am biased a bit because I enjoy football and never wanted Mick all them years ago anyway but the one game I’ve seen this year there does seem to be a desire to try and play a bit.
Hopefully he needs a bit of time. I wouldn’t mind if we finished 4th from bottom this year and pushed on from there. Let’s be honest it’s been rubbish for many a year so it’s not going to turn around in a heart beat. |
I don't think that would be a good enough finish to really establish Hurst, unless circumstances somehow turn really dire. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:04 - Aug 31 with 4830 views | Superfrans |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:40 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
We didn't "need an overhaul" Hurst chose to have one. This is a very crucial distinction and one that needs to be seen in the fact he was praising the squad he inherited and what he had to work with.
This desire to cast or insinuate every negative as a legacy of Mick's time here is totally dishonest and inaccurate. Likewise pretending that Hurst is at Jewell levels of incompetence or we're in some sort of existential crisis needs knocking on the head. |
The players we let go were let go before Hurst arrived. If you can come up with any significant ones released after he arrived, I’d be interested.
And Waghorn, Garner and Webster all made it known they wanted to leave.
To be fair to Hurst, I’m sure he’d rather these three stayed. But they didn’t.
Their departures allowed us to recruit more new players this summer than maybe we might have expected. Hurst himself has said this.
So, the overhaul wasn’t initiated by Hurst, but dealt the cards he was dealt he has made more changes than he would otherwise have thought possible or likely.
The comparisons other posters are making to Jewell miss out one vital fact however. When we were bottom under Jewell, he had been in the club 18 months and had three (maybe four?) transfer windows.
Hurst has been here barely three months, has had 6 matches and one (shorter than ever before) window to operate in. Which is precisely why he should be given time to deliver on his vision. |  |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:04 - Aug 31 with 4824 views | Mullet |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:53 - Aug 31 by tiptreeblue |
Why can`t you grasp the fact that all three wanted to leave. what is holding you back from seeing this? |
Before or when Hurst joined? Again you simply aren't paying attention to the timeline or decisions made.
Hurst made a rallying call and Webster made it clear he wanted out and had Bristol waiting, Garner (as Phil confirmed)was set to stay. It was deadline day when PH and ME made the decision that Wigan's offer was too good. Likewise Waghorn wasn't turned until a bid came in long after Hurst started.
Given the list of outs were loans, and a lot of peripheral players, the idea that an overhaul was necessary rather than the squad needed adjustments just isn't correct. As your lack of "grasp" on events shows. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:08 - Aug 31 with 4779 views | artsbossbeard |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 20:32 - Aug 31 by Plums |
Except PH and Doig have a very clear and consistent approach to the game that has reaped rewards. They are recruiting players to suit that approach.
Jewell developed nothing for the long term and recruited and played players that he thought gave him a sniff of repeating previous success. He reacted to everything and seemed to have no real clue where he or the club were going.
I’d have a stiff drink before bedtime and the nightmares shouldn’t trouble you. |
What rewards have been reaped to date, out of interest?
Last time I checked we were bottom without a win but please expand further. |  |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:10 - Aug 31 with 4762 views | Mullet |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:04 - Aug 31 by Superfrans |
The players we let go were let go before Hurst arrived. If you can come up with any significant ones released after he arrived, I’d be interested.
And Waghorn, Garner and Webster all made it known they wanted to leave.
To be fair to Hurst, I’m sure he’d rather these three stayed. But they didn’t.
Their departures allowed us to recruit more new players this summer than maybe we might have expected. Hurst himself has said this.
So, the overhaul wasn’t initiated by Hurst, but dealt the cards he was dealt he has made more changes than he would otherwise have thought possible or likely.
The comparisons other posters are making to Jewell miss out one vital fact however. When we were bottom under Jewell, he had been in the club 18 months and had three (maybe four?) transfer windows.
Hurst has been here barely three months, has had 6 matches and one (shorter than ever before) window to operate in. Which is precisely why he should be given time to deliver on his vision. |
The idea that Bru and Hyam and the short term cover were integral players just doesn't stack up to this overhaul narrative. The retention of Bart too is telling that he had a good handle on what he liked in the first team. Especially when he came here wanting Nsiala and Nolan and it took what, 2 months to get them?
Likewise the amount of players he's gone through in pre-season and the first few games suggests he's planned to do a lot of this as his expectations were(n't) met. The fact some fans see the youngsters and Evans "promised" the emphasis on them as first team players whereas Hurst doesn't is a stronger argument.
But the timing of who and when doesn't tie in. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:45 - Aug 31 with 4602 views | Superfrans |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:10 - Aug 31 by Mullet |
The idea that Bru and Hyam and the short term cover were integral players just doesn't stack up to this overhaul narrative. The retention of Bart too is telling that he had a good handle on what he liked in the first team. Especially when he came here wanting Nsiala and Nolan and it took what, 2 months to get them?
Likewise the amount of players he's gone through in pre-season and the first few games suggests he's planned to do a lot of this as his expectations were(n't) met. The fact some fans see the youngsters and Evans "promised" the emphasis on them as first team players whereas Hurst doesn't is a stronger argument.
But the timing of who and when doesn't tie in. |
I’m not sure what point you’re making re Bru/Hyam, but we also lost Celina, McGoldrick, Carayol, Connolly, CCV etc at the end of last season. Loans or otherwise, they played a lot of games last season. Add in Waghorn, Garner, Webster and that’s almost 50% of our minutes from last season. (See graphic for where we sit in the division overall).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkQCtY1WsAA1kba?format=jpg&name=medium
If we accept that Hurst had zero input into players released and minimal influence on the 3 players who wanted to leave, surely we have to agree that the overhaul was unavoidable.
On the youngsters, Mick played lots of them last season. Klug is on record as saying that we used too many of them, too young, but had little choice (see his manager notes vs Villa last season). Hurst is proving equally cautious.
At some point we have to accept that these three men, all professionals with many years experience, working with these young players every day, reaching the same conclusion, might know what they are doing. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:52 - Aug 31 with 4533 views | Mullet |
| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:45 - Aug 31 by Superfrans |
I’m not sure what point you’re making re Bru/Hyam, but we also lost Celina, McGoldrick, Carayol, Connolly, CCV etc at the end of last season. Loans or otherwise, they played a lot of games last season. Add in Waghorn, Garner, Webster and that’s almost 50% of our minutes from last season. (See graphic for where we sit in the division overall).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkQCtY1WsAA1kba?format=jpg&name=medium
If we accept that Hurst had zero input into players released and minimal influence on the 3 players who wanted to leave, surely we have to agree that the overhaul was unavoidable.
On the youngsters, Mick played lots of them last season. Klug is on record as saying that we used too many of them, too young, but had little choice (see his manager notes vs Villa last season). Hurst is proving equally cautious.
At some point we have to accept that these three men, all professionals with many years experience, working with these young players every day, reaching the same conclusion, might know what they are doing. |
That many of these players were either short term cover for injuries to players like Garner or the regular churn of loans. To say they were key parts of the squad and the basis of an inevitable overhaul is frankly wrong.
Again this binary thinking of pointing something out must be criticism or phrased as praise is clouding yet another thread.
How many fans would have expected Nydam and Dozzell to be marked for loans alongside Downes and the the returning Emmanuel, as well as Morris and Woolfenden etc? You'd say some of those players maybe and some to be the ones to make up the squad given their development.
The idea that all of Hurst's signings in and out were necessary when he joined and therefore so was this "overhaul" when we expected a few additions and some movement is simply rewriting history and ignoring circumstance and events.
Let alone what Hurst said and did, when. Alongside the fact that fans can reserve to the right to be (un)happy at specific moves, but there are the same tedious hypocrites telling people not to moan when they did nothing but for the past year or more. Let alone those who walked out only to come back with the blinkers and loudspeakers on.
It'd be great if all of these signings worked out, but it goes against Hurst's previous work and suggests that maybe he and Evans didn't see eye to eye after a few weeks of working on the task in hand. | |
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| The dream is turning into a nightmare on 21:52 - Aug 31 with 4525 views | SpruceMoose |
Cheer up you big fanny! It'll be OK. Spruce promises it! |  |
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