| Is caricature racist? on 09:52 - Sep 11 with 5174 views | The_Last_Baron |
No. |  |
|  |
| Is caricature racist? on 09:55 - Sep 11 with 5157 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
No.
But then I don't understand or know of the Sambo drawings to which those upset are referring to be able to determine if the likeness was unfortunate or likely deliberate.
To me it appears to be a bad loser having a tantrum like a 5 year old that doesn't win at snakes and ladders. It would have been the same for Boris Becker, a white man, if he'd have done what Williams did.
Literally no reference to her sex or skin colour, purely her behaviour to my eyes. But if others feel that it is too close to be coincidence to something deemed racist that's another matter. [Post edited 11 Sep 2018 10:02]
|  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 09:56 - Sep 11 with 5151 views | Keno |
only if you want it to be!! |  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:01 - Sep 11 with 5139 views | Superfrans |
Yes. This one is.
It chooses to use exaggerated physical attributes (large lips, big black hair, tongue sticking out) to ridicule a black woman - while the other, calm, emotionless, player is white, blonde, pert. Hard to see how anyone could NOT see that this is a racist caricature. |  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:02 - Sep 11 with 5129 views | The_Last_Baron |
In the UK only the Guardian or the BBC would even ask this question. Nonsense. | |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:11 - Sep 11 with 5089 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:01 - Sep 11 by Superfrans |
Yes. This one is.
It chooses to use exaggerated physical attributes (large lips, big black hair, tongue sticking out) to ridicule a black woman - while the other, calm, emotionless, player is white, blonde, pert. Hard to see how anyone could NOT see that this is a racist caricature. |
Isn't it the nature of a caricature to exaggerate physical features?
[Post edited 11 Sep 2018 10:16]
| |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:15 - Sep 11 with 5071 views | TIB |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:01 - Sep 11 by Superfrans |
Yes. This one is.
It chooses to use exaggerated physical attributes (large lips, big black hair, tongue sticking out) to ridicule a black woman - while the other, calm, emotionless, player is white, blonde, pert. Hard to see how anyone could NOT see that this is a racist caricature. |
I've seen plenty of caricatures of people of all races with exaggerated features...in this case I think he's just emphasizing what an athlete she is and what a "tantrum" she had. The bit I don't understand is why he's drawn the opponent white and blonde when she was of Haitian-Japanese descent and had brown hair!?! |  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:19 - Sep 11 with 5050 views | Superfrans |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:11 - Sep 11 by The_Last_Baron |
Isn't it the nature of a caricature to exaggerate physical features?
[Post edited 11 Sep 2018 10:16]
|
Yes, of the individual. But this exaggeration depicts Serena Williams using the common trope of the angry, irrational black woman - it's not just an exaggeration of her own physical features, it's the exaggeration of her as a black female (and an angry one, at that). And it contrasts with the preppy, blonde, pert, figure in the background.
I'm not suggesting for a second that Williams *didn't* behave like a spoiled brat - Imho she behaved appallingly and was wrong to put her opponent in the position she did. Terrible lack of sportsmanship.
But that also doesn't mean that this *isn't* racist. It is. IMHO. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Is caricature racist? on 10:20 - Sep 11 with 5043 views | Superfrans |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:15 - Sep 11 by TIB |
I've seen plenty of caricatures of people of all races with exaggerated features...in this case I think he's just emphasizing what an athlete she is and what a "tantrum" she had. The bit I don't understand is why he's drawn the opponent white and blonde when she was of Haitian-Japanese descent and had brown hair!?! |
Have a think about why she is portrayed as blonde and not brown haired. You have an answer to this right there. It's all about counter-pointing the two characters. One very black, one very white. | |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:23 - Sep 11 with 5028 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:19 - Sep 11 by Superfrans |
Yes, of the individual. But this exaggeration depicts Serena Williams using the common trope of the angry, irrational black woman - it's not just an exaggeration of her own physical features, it's the exaggeration of her as a black female (and an angry one, at that). And it contrasts with the preppy, blonde, pert, figure in the background.
I'm not suggesting for a second that Williams *didn't* behave like a spoiled brat - Imho she behaved appallingly and was wrong to put her opponent in the position she did. Terrible lack of sportsmanship.
But that also doesn't mean that this *isn't* racist. It is. IMHO. |
Fair enough, if that's how you see it. You've got a point about the opponent in the cartoon, I suppose the artist didn't consider it important in the context of the cartoon as it was about Williams' behaviour on court and not the opponent. | |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:26 - Sep 11 with 5010 views | MattinLondon |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:20 - Sep 11 by Superfrans |
Have a think about why she is portrayed as blonde and not brown haired. You have an answer to this right there. It's all about counter-pointing the two characters. One very black, one very white. |
Maybe he didn’t have a clue who the other player was and portrayed her as blonde just out of sheer laziness. Possibly he didn’t care about the opposition as it was all about Williams.
To me, the main aim of this was to ridicule Williams. Does that make it racist? Of course it doesn’t as her behaviour was quite appalling.
It was probably also done to stir up some sort of controversy and it has succeeded. |  | | |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:29 - Sep 11 with 4990 views | Superfrans |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:23 - Sep 11 by The_Last_Baron |
Fair enough, if that's how you see it. You've got a point about the opponent in the cartoon, I suppose the artist didn't consider it important in the context of the cartoon as it was about Williams' behaviour on court and not the opponent. |
I think it was very obvious and calculated, actually. But even if it wasn't, its a subconcious thing and no less insidious because of that.
Anyway, I'm not going to get into a long, drawn out argument on here. It's very rare that anyone's view is changed from a debate on TWTD. But I saw the question raised and vehemently disagreed with the first 3/4 responses. Just wanted to quickly offer my two pennorth as a counter-point to what I'm sure will be the prevailing wind on here. | |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:30 - Sep 11 with 4986 views | Superfrans |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:26 - Sep 11 by MattinLondon |
Maybe he didn’t have a clue who the other player was and portrayed her as blonde just out of sheer laziness. Possibly he didn’t care about the opposition as it was all about Williams.
To me, the main aim of this was to ridicule Williams. Does that make it racist? Of course it doesn’t as her behaviour was quite appalling.
It was probably also done to stir up some sort of controversy and it has succeeded. |
Her appalling behaviour does not make it right. | |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:31 - Sep 11 with 4983 views | Eiffel78 |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:26 - Sep 11 by MattinLondon |
Maybe he didn’t have a clue who the other player was and portrayed her as blonde just out of sheer laziness. Possibly he didn’t care about the opposition as it was all about Williams.
To me, the main aim of this was to ridicule Williams. Does that make it racist? Of course it doesn’t as her behaviour was quite appalling.
It was probably also done to stir up some sort of controversy and it has succeeded. |
He portrayed her as blonde as she has blonde highlights in her ponytail and, with the cap, that's all you can see in many pictures. And she's not shown as white. Compare her colouring to the white umpire next to her and you'll see she's far from white. |  | | |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:33 - Sep 11 with 4969 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:19 - Sep 11 by Superfrans |
Yes, of the individual. But this exaggeration depicts Serena Williams using the common trope of the angry, irrational black woman - it's not just an exaggeration of her own physical features, it's the exaggeration of her as a black female (and an angry one, at that). And it contrasts with the preppy, blonde, pert, figure in the background.
I'm not suggesting for a second that Williams *didn't* behave like a spoiled brat - Imho she behaved appallingly and was wrong to put her opponent in the position she did. Terrible lack of sportsmanship.
But that also doesn't mean that this *isn't* racist. It is. IMHO. |
She was angry, she was irrational, and I'd imagine it's hard to do a caricature of a black female without it looking ultimately like a black female. Not sure if I'm right though, or even if there is a right - maybe the only way of knowing is from the intent of the cartoonist, which we obviously don't know (it could be calculated as you suspect though, of course it could and that would very definitely make it wrong).
It's certainly kicking up a storm, whatever the 'correct' answer. [Post edited 11 Sep 2018 10:34]
|  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:36 - Sep 11 with 4951 views | TractorJack |
As always with things like this, historical context is key. It's not appropriate. |  | | |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:39 - Sep 11 with 4931 views | MattinLondon |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:30 - Sep 11 by Superfrans |
Her appalling behaviour does not make it right. |
In my opinion her behaviour on the court makes it right for an artist to portray her as a spoiled child - that is how she indeed acted like. She showed no courtesy towards her opponent or the umpire and deserves ridicule.
I don’t actually think it is racist. You do. It’s all about interpretation. | | | |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:44 - Sep 11 with 4880 views | GlasgowBlue |
Yes. The exaggerated lips are reminiscent of the old racial stereotype of bkack people from the 1920’s. |  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:52 - Sep 11 with 4848 views | Ftnfwest |
People can read/view anything into anything. The safe bet is to not caricature, not criticise and frankly if i'd been the other player on the day i'd have given williams the trophy at the end just to shut her up. |  | | |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:55 - Sep 11 with 4825 views | Superfrans |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:39 - Sep 11 by MattinLondon |
In my opinion her behaviour on the court makes it right for an artist to portray her as a spoiled child - that is how she indeed acted like. She showed no courtesy towards her opponent or the umpire and deserves ridicule.
I don’t actually think it is racist. You do. It’s all about interpretation. |
It is indeed all about interpretation.
I was simply responding to this, from you, which appeared to link the question of whether it was racist with her behaviour, which are two entirely separate points.
"Does that make it racist? Of course it doesn’t as her behaviour was quite appalling." | |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 11:34 - Sep 11 with 4711 views | Currie10 |
| Is caricature racist? on 10:02 - Sep 11 by The_Last_Baron |
In the UK only the Guardian or the BBC would even ask this question. Nonsense. |
Amen.
If they had it their way, people wouldn’t leave the house. |  | | |
| Is caricature racist? on 11:37 - Sep 11 with 4700 views | chicoazul |
Always good to read what white English men think black American women should not be offended by. |  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 11:43 - Sep 11 with 4666 views | DanTheMan |
That one is, yeah. |  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 11:47 - Sep 11 with 4654 views | jeera |
| Is caricature racist? on 11:34 - Sep 11 by Currie10 |
Amen.
If they had it their way, people wouldn’t leave the house. |
"These days..." |  |
| |
| Is caricature racist? on 11:51 - Sep 11 with 4645 views | jeera |
Yes, clearly.
Possibly not to the artist, as it's his inherent style etc.
But yes of course it's reminiscent of those old caricatures that have rightly, gradually become consigned to history. Forget the tantrum - the stupid girl was well out of order - the image there isn't all about that, or her sex, it clearly portrays a person with over-sized features that are not just personal to her as an individual, but of a race.
It's not complicated. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
