| If the Universe is infinite 17:25 - Sep 11 with 20248 views | chicoazul |
that must mean that everything that possibly can happen will eventually happen.
Does this therefore mean free will is an illusion? |  |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 09:53 - Sep 12 with 2460 views | chicoazul |
| If the Universe is infinite on 09:52 - Sep 12 by Cotty |
An infinite amount of things can happen without everything happening. The link to free will is beyond me I'm afraid. |
Your first sentence; explain more. | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 09:59 - Sep 12 with 2452 views | Cotty |
| If the Universe is infinite on 09:53 - Sep 12 by chicoazul |
Your first sentence; explain more. |
OK, take the monkey typing for an infinite amount of time. Now imagine that the letter "S" is missing from his typewriter. Now let him type for an infinite amount of time. Now there is no way that he could type the works of shakespeare, or even spell "shakespeare", even given an infinite amount of time. So just because an infinite amount of things happen, that doesn't mean that every conceivable eventuality WILL happen. Does that make any sense? |  | | |
| If the Universe is infinite on 10:02 - Sep 12 with 2447 views | chicoazul |
| If the Universe is infinite on 09:59 - Sep 12 by Cotty |
OK, take the monkey typing for an infinite amount of time. Now imagine that the letter "S" is missing from his typewriter. Now let him type for an infinite amount of time. Now there is no way that he could type the works of shakespeare, or even spell "shakespeare", even given an infinite amount of time. So just because an infinite amount of things happen, that doesn't mean that every conceivable eventuality WILL happen. Does that make any sense? |
Hmmm. Yes it does. Thank you brother. | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 10:56 - Sep 12 with 2427 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 09:59 - Sep 12 by Cotty |
OK, take the monkey typing for an infinite amount of time. Now imagine that the letter "S" is missing from his typewriter. Now let him type for an infinite amount of time. Now there is no way that he could type the works of shakespeare, or even spell "shakespeare", even given an infinite amount of time. So just because an infinite amount of things happen, that doesn't mean that every conceivable eventuality WILL happen. Does that make any sense? |
I've never understood the monkeys/typewriter theory. Even with an infinite amount of time and an infinite amount of monkeys, you still wouldn't get the complete works of Shakespeare. |  |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 11:56 - Sep 12 with 2398 views | jeera |
| If the Universe is infinite on 10:56 - Sep 12 by BrixtonBlue |
I've never understood the monkeys/typewriter theory. Even with an infinite amount of time and an infinite amount of monkeys, you still wouldn't get the complete works of Shakespeare. |
Maybe not, but they might invent microwave meals by accident. |  |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 11:58 - Sep 12 with 2396 views | jeera |
| If the Universe is infinite on 09:59 - Sep 12 by Cotty |
OK, take the monkey typing for an infinite amount of time. Now imagine that the letter "S" is missing from his typewriter. Now let him type for an infinite amount of time. Now there is no way that he could type the works of shakespeare, or even spell "shakespeare", even given an infinite amount of time. So just because an infinite amount of things happen, that doesn't mean that every conceivable eventuality WILL happen. Does that make any sense? |
Surely they would just use the 'f'. | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 12:03 - Sep 12 with 2387 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 11:58 - Sep 12 by jeera |
Surely they would just use the 'f'. |
Or take the typewriter to be repaired. I don't think he's thought this one through properly  |  |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 12:15 - Sep 12 with 2378 views | jeera |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:03 - Sep 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Or take the typewriter to be repaired. I don't think he's thought this one through properly |
Anything is possible! | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 12:19 - Sep 12 with 2372 views | Cotty |
| If the Universe is infinite on 10:56 - Sep 12 by BrixtonBlue |
I've never understood the monkeys/typewriter theory. Even with an infinite amount of time and an infinite amount of monkeys, you still wouldn't get the complete works of Shakespeare. |
Under certain assumptions, yes you would. It's a very clumsy way to explain infinity to people, and overall isn't particularly helpful, but if framed in the right way, it is true. | | | |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:20 - Sep 12 with 2371 views | Cotty |
| If the Universe is infinite on 11:58 - Sep 12 by jeera |
Surely they would just use the 'f'. |
True dat! | | | |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:33 - Sep 12 with 2353 views | J2BLUE |
| If the Universe is infinite on 09:49 - Sep 12 by chicoazul |
I'm just saying. If everything that can happen will happen then surely free will is an illusion as everything is going to happen regardless. Or something. I forget now to be honest. |
Surely individuals having free will has no impact on everything happening.
Maybe some things will take longer to happen but if time is infinite they will happen eventually. |  |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 12:37 - Sep 12 with 2347 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:19 - Sep 12 by Cotty |
Under certain assumptions, yes you would. It's a very clumsy way to explain infinity to people, and overall isn't particularly helpful, but if framed in the right way, it is true. |
It's only true if you stipulate they have to do something different each time. Otherwise it will just be random keys hit an infinite amount of times and will just be an infinite amount of nonsense. | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 12:46 - Sep 12 with 2329 views | Cotty |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:37 - Sep 12 by BrixtonBlue |
It's only true if you stipulate they have to do something different each time. Otherwise it will just be random keys hit an infinite amount of times and will just be an infinite amount of nonsense. |
The point is that within that infinite amount of nonsense, there will be a perfect copy of the complete works of Shakespeare. It's not suggesting that the monkey will write it out perfectly first time. There will also be an infinite number of complete works of shakespeare with "COTTY IS A BELLEND" written at the bottom of each page.
But yes it only works under certain assumptions, mainly that there is a non-zero probability of the next key strike being any of the possible keys. [Post edited 12 Sep 2018 12:50]
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| If the Universe is infinite on 12:51 - Sep 12 with 2307 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:46 - Sep 12 by Cotty |
The point is that within that infinite amount of nonsense, there will be a perfect copy of the complete works of Shakespeare. It's not suggesting that the monkey will write it out perfectly first time. There will also be an infinite number of complete works of shakespeare with "COTTY IS A BELLEND" written at the bottom of each page.
But yes it only works under certain assumptions, mainly that there is a non-zero probability of the next key strike being any of the possible keys. [Post edited 12 Sep 2018 12:50]
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No there won't. Monkeys hitting keys randomly will never type "COTTY IS A BELLEND" let alone the complete works of Shakespeare, no matter how much time or how many monkeys.
They'll accidentally type the odd word here and there and that will be it. | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 12:55 - Sep 12 with 2298 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:51 - Sep 12 by BrixtonBlue |
No there won't. Monkeys hitting keys randomly will never type "COTTY IS A BELLEND" let alone the complete works of Shakespeare, no matter how much time or how many monkeys.
They'll accidentally type the odd word here and there and that will be it. |
Infinite is quite a long time though. I imagine it feels even longer than a typical MM match. | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 12:57 - Sep 12 with 2293 views | StokieBlue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:51 - Sep 12 by BrixtonBlue |
No there won't. Monkeys hitting keys randomly will never type "COTTY IS A BELLEND" let alone the complete works of Shakespeare, no matter how much time or how many monkeys.
They'll accidentally type the odd word here and there and that will be it. |
Cotty is trying to highlight the difficult in the human mind grasping the concept of infinity and you've highlighted how hard it is for us to understand.
It's perfectly possible for monkeys to type that sentence. It's improbable but not impossible thus your assertion is incorrect.
I posted this earlier (mainly because it's cool). This is possible but hugely improbable:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
SB [Post edited 12 Sep 2018 12:58]
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| If the Universe is infinite on 13:02 - Sep 12 with 2275 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:57 - Sep 12 by StokieBlue |
Cotty is trying to highlight the difficult in the human mind grasping the concept of infinity and you've highlighted how hard it is for us to understand.
It's perfectly possible for monkeys to type that sentence. It's improbable but not impossible thus your assertion is incorrect.
I posted this earlier (mainly because it's cool). This is possible but hugely improbable:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
SB [Post edited 12 Sep 2018 12:58]
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I'd agree with you that sentence is possible hitting keys randomly. The complete works of Shakespeare isn't. | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 13:05 - Sep 12 with 2269 views | StokieBlue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:02 - Sep 12 by BrixtonBlue |
I'd agree with you that sentence is possible hitting keys randomly. The complete works of Shakespeare isn't. |
It's improbable. It's not impossible.
In reality it would likely never happen as there isn't enough time or monkeys. It's highly improbable and for practical reasons you could say it's impossible.
Theoretically it's not though and that's important is some fields.
SB [Post edited 12 Sep 2018 13:05]
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| If the Universe is infinite on 13:07 - Sep 12 with 2262 views | Cotty |
| If the Universe is infinite on 12:51 - Sep 12 by BrixtonBlue |
No there won't. Monkeys hitting keys randomly will never type "COTTY IS A BELLEND" let alone the complete works of Shakespeare, no matter how much time or how many monkeys.
They'll accidentally type the odd word here and there and that will be it. |
I think the monkey thing is getting in the way here Dollers. It's a mathematical fact, with a dodgy analogy to attempt to explain it to non-mathematical people. If I have the same probability of striking any one key on the keyboard, and do that infinitely many times, somewhere in there will exist any string of characters that choose, for instance the complete works of Shakespeare. There's no point to argue here, it's a mathematical factoid! | | | |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:20 - Sep 12 with 2244 views | DanTheMan |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:07 - Sep 12 by Cotty |
I think the monkey thing is getting in the way here Dollers. It's a mathematical fact, with a dodgy analogy to attempt to explain it to non-mathematical people. If I have the same probability of striking any one key on the keyboard, and do that infinitely many times, somewhere in there will exist any string of characters that choose, for instance the complete works of Shakespeare. There's no point to argue here, it's a mathematical factoid! |
It wouldn't take at all long to write a program to write this out.
Hell I imagine the maths involved is incredibly simple to work out how long a number of machines would take to write something of x length. |  |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 13:20 - Sep 12 with 2244 views | jjblue84 |
| If the Universe is infinite on 09:59 - Sep 12 by Cotty |
OK, take the monkey typing for an infinite amount of time. Now imagine that the letter "S" is missing from his typewriter. Now let him type for an infinite amount of time. Now there is no way that he could type the works of shakespeare, or even spell "shakespeare", even given an infinite amount of time. So just because an infinite amount of things happen, that doesn't mean that every conceivable eventuality WILL happen. Does that make any sense? |
It seems that science can’t make any sense of infinity at all. What does that tell us?? |  | | |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:21 - Sep 12 with 2240 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:05 - Sep 12 by StokieBlue |
It's improbable. It's not impossible.
In reality it would likely never happen as there isn't enough time or monkeys. It's highly improbable and for practical reasons you could say it's impossible.
Theoretically it's not though and that's important is some fields.
SB [Post edited 12 Sep 2018 13:05]
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You say there isn't enough time or monkeys, but they are infinite in this model.
If you were to say there would, within an infinite amount of time, be intelligent monkeys born that would be able to write the complete works of Shakespeare, you'd be correct. But we're talking about monkeys and typewriters that we have now.
The way monkey fingers work, and the layout of typewriters (as we know them now) makes it impossible for one of them to RANDOMLY type the complete works of Shakespeare.
They would probably type each word that appears in Shakespeare, between them. But one doing it, in the exact sentence structure, over all those plays, it's impossible. You'd need cognitive thought about what you're actually doing. Another human would do it, eventually, but any creature randomly bashing keys wouldn't. | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 13:22 - Sep 12 with 2238 views | DanTheMan |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:20 - Sep 12 by jjblue84 |
It seems that science can’t make any sense of infinity at all. What does that tell us?? |
How on earth did you come to that conclusion? | |
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| If the Universe is infinite on 13:27 - Sep 12 with 2225 views | jjblue84 |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:22 - Sep 12 by DanTheMan |
How on earth did you come to that conclusion? |
Just reading the thread... | | | |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:28 - Sep 12 with 2220 views | DanTheMan |
| If the Universe is infinite on 13:21 - Sep 12 by BrixtonBlue |
You say there isn't enough time or monkeys, but they are infinite in this model.
If you were to say there would, within an infinite amount of time, be intelligent monkeys born that would be able to write the complete works of Shakespeare, you'd be correct. But we're talking about monkeys and typewriters that we have now.
The way monkey fingers work, and the layout of typewriters (as we know them now) makes it impossible for one of them to RANDOMLY type the complete works of Shakespeare.
They would probably type each word that appears in Shakespeare, between them. But one doing it, in the exact sentence structure, over all those plays, it's impossible. You'd need cognitive thought about what you're actually doing. Another human would do it, eventually, but any creature randomly bashing keys wouldn't. |
You're taking an analogy very literally. | |
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