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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? 21:36 - Sep 22 with 3624 viewspointofblue

Seriously, I've even seen posters who I rate as patient and understanding calling for the manager's head tonight. After NINE games, with signs of promise in at least two thirds of them.

Admittedly today was dismal - flat with no redeeming features in terms of attack. But to snap and change manager will just show panic that many fans are currently accusing Hurst of; something isn't working so let's drop and make a change.

We're not cut adrift and defensively we're hardly dreadful. We need something to click up front and, as I said, there have been signs of that happening but we're lacking consistency. Switching managers at this stage will just aid that inconsistency.

Hurst needs to stick to an eleven to try and give them time to develop. After showing so much promise against Brentford in the second half he should have started the same XI than started the second half of that game IMO.

If he keeps switching line ups, tactics and approaches then eventually a decision will have to be made but we're not there yet. And, as I said, it's a concern that previously patient and understanding posters seem as desperate to get rid as those who naturally snap at the sign of a bad run.

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 21:47 - Sep 22 with 3571 viewspatrickswell

I know I sound like a broken record, but the problem is the lack of any kind of new manager bounce and that means winning football matches. Bits of good play here and there won’t cut it when set against the fact that this our second worst start to a season, a host of new players who have performed poorly and all the stories coming out of Portman Road about disharmony behind the scenes.

Hurst has done nothing yet to earn our trust or belief that he knows what he’s doing.
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:18 - Sep 22 with 3517 viewsGuthrum

Part of the problem is the most promising bits were in the first few games, but things appear to have been going backwards since then (second half against Brentford aside). Even that last was not continued into today.

Patience is all very well, but has to be encouraged by some signs of improvement, or at least moves to tackle problematic issues. Currently, the biggest concern is creating goal chances and putting them away. The supply chain simply isn't working well and set pieces (inc. corners) aren't filling the gap. Neither of those things have got much better. Strikers/advanced midfielders are lacking in accuracy and confidence when shooting. Hurst has to at least give the impression he has a plan and knows what he's doing.

There is a reasonable window in order to get things right, but it's not open ended. Go on like this for another ten games and the task of avoiding relegation begins to look somewhat grim.

Added to that are ugly - but persistant - rumours of off-field strife.

I'm usually a pretty positive bloke, but I can't currently find a lot to be positive about.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:29 - Sep 22 with 3469 viewsRyorry

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:18 - Sep 22 by Guthrum

Part of the problem is the most promising bits were in the first few games, but things appear to have been going backwards since then (second half against Brentford aside). Even that last was not continued into today.

Patience is all very well, but has to be encouraged by some signs of improvement, or at least moves to tackle problematic issues. Currently, the biggest concern is creating goal chances and putting them away. The supply chain simply isn't working well and set pieces (inc. corners) aren't filling the gap. Neither of those things have got much better. Strikers/advanced midfielders are lacking in accuracy and confidence when shooting. Hurst has to at least give the impression he has a plan and knows what he's doing.

There is a reasonable window in order to get things right, but it's not open ended. Go on like this for another ten games and the task of avoiding relegation begins to look somewhat grim.

Added to that are ugly - but persistant - rumours of off-field strife.

I'm usually a pretty positive bloke, but I can't currently find a lot to be positive about.


Posted this on another thread - any thoughts? esp re the sports psychologist?

I know this might be slated, but we're not actually losing that many games - only four, all away (not counting Exeter). We're simply drawing games at home rather than winning them. We've been unlucky a couple of times - the red card, a last minute goal against - and had one of those games translated into 3 points, I think the difference in confidence would have made a huge difference. Several on here tonight have commented on our poor first touches, players not comfortable on the ball or knowing what to do with it etc - surely all things which are greatly affected by having low or no confidence? Need something or somebody to come in as catalyst - sports psychologist?

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:29 - Sep 22 with 3469 viewsagentp

The problem for me is Hurst just doesn't seem to have the ability to influence. The team looks disjointed but yet there seems to be no direction from him from the sidelines. Players seem to be looking for instruction but it doesn't come.

His only reaction seems to be to chop and change for the next game adding even more insecurities.

I didn't like MM's appointment but never called for his head. But PH seems to be all talk and no action. I have seen nothing to suggest it will get better anytime soon.

ME did the right thing. He did what we all wanted. But like many of the posters here he made the wrong call. Get him out and move on. He risk's dividing the fans more than MM did.

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:38 - Sep 22 with 3429 viewsRadlett_blue

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:29 - Sep 22 by agentp

The problem for me is Hurst just doesn't seem to have the ability to influence. The team looks disjointed but yet there seems to be no direction from him from the sidelines. Players seem to be looking for instruction but it doesn't come.

His only reaction seems to be to chop and change for the next game adding even more insecurities.

I didn't like MM's appointment but never called for his head. But PH seems to be all talk and no action. I have seen nothing to suggest it will get better anytime soon.

ME did the right thing. He did what we all wanted. But like many of the posters here he made the wrong call. Get him out and move on. He risk's dividing the fans more than MM did.


The problem with Hurst isn't that he's dividing the fans, it's simply that he seems to have assembled a football team that offers little goal threat & therefore looks incapable of winning football matches at this level.
Very few of the newcomers - with the exception of Edwards - look comfortable at this level. Add to that a bloated squad over over 30 first team players & no wonder there are rumours of disaffected players.
As Hurst seems to have quickly abandoned his Plan "A" in favour of wildly rotating systems & players, I'm not sure he has a clue how to find a winning formula.

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:43 - Sep 22 with 3405 viewsGuthrum

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:29 - Sep 22 by Ryorry

Posted this on another thread - any thoughts? esp re the sports psychologist?

I know this might be slated, but we're not actually losing that many games - only four, all away (not counting Exeter). We're simply drawing games at home rather than winning them. We've been unlucky a couple of times - the red card, a last minute goal against - and had one of those games translated into 3 points, I think the difference in confidence would have made a huge difference. Several on here tonight have commented on our poor first touches, players not comfortable on the ball or knowing what to do with it etc - surely all things which are greatly affected by having low or no confidence? Need something or somebody to come in as catalyst - sports psychologist?


Thing is, what is causing those confidence issues? Is it merely insecurity over the poor start, or something deeper? I don't know the answer, but the Manager - or somebody - has to get a grip on it, soon. The longer this situation drags on, the more difficult it becomes. The more pressure there is from the fans. The more rumours (true or otherwise) are going to come out of the club.

Losing games would be less of an issue if we were winning some others. But 0.5 points per game over a whole season is not going to leave us anywhere near safe.

We benefitted from a red card today, but were unable to capitalise. Luck evens itself out over a season, but if the opposition can turn that into points and we cannot, then we aren't helping ourselves. If he'd thrown Walters on at half time (as most people thought he would), we'd have had two strikers on the field and still a substitution in our pocket when the injury happened.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:46 - Sep 22 with 3388 viewslowhouseblue

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:18 - Sep 22 by Guthrum

Part of the problem is the most promising bits were in the first few games, but things appear to have been going backwards since then (second half against Brentford aside). Even that last was not continued into today.

Patience is all very well, but has to be encouraged by some signs of improvement, or at least moves to tackle problematic issues. Currently, the biggest concern is creating goal chances and putting them away. The supply chain simply isn't working well and set pieces (inc. corners) aren't filling the gap. Neither of those things have got much better. Strikers/advanced midfielders are lacking in accuracy and confidence when shooting. Hurst has to at least give the impression he has a plan and knows what he's doing.

There is a reasonable window in order to get things right, but it's not open ended. Go on like this for another ten games and the task of avoiding relegation begins to look somewhat grim.

Added to that are ugly - but persistant - rumours of off-field strife.

I'm usually a pretty positive bloke, but I can't currently find a lot to be positive about.


hurst has tried lots of different things but none of them look to have goals in them. i really can't see where goals will come from. and the overall technical quality of our squad has declined. i don't know about confidence and disharmony but the lack of goals and lack of quality mean that we are going to struggle.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:53 - Sep 22 with 3348 viewsRyorry

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:43 - Sep 22 by Guthrum

Thing is, what is causing those confidence issues? Is it merely insecurity over the poor start, or something deeper? I don't know the answer, but the Manager - or somebody - has to get a grip on it, soon. The longer this situation drags on, the more difficult it becomes. The more pressure there is from the fans. The more rumours (true or otherwise) are going to come out of the club.

Losing games would be less of an issue if we were winning some others. But 0.5 points per game over a whole season is not going to leave us anywhere near safe.

We benefitted from a red card today, but were unable to capitalise. Luck evens itself out over a season, but if the opposition can turn that into points and we cannot, then we aren't helping ourselves. If he'd thrown Walters on at half time (as most people thought he would), we'd have had two strikers on the field and still a substitution in our pocket when the injury happened.


Thanks, good points as ever from you. Must say I hadn't thought of the one re potentially putting JW on as an earlier sub - pretty catastrophic to put him on as 3rd sub when he'd been carrying the niggling Achilles problem for at least one, if not two weeks (according to Mick Mills). PH seems to be one helluva risk-taker! esp after our previous risk-averse manager ...

I just had a feeling that if we'd been able to get one win, the club as a whole on all sides might have relaxed & the floodgates opened - well at least comparatively! But who knows of course.

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:59 - Sep 22 with 3318 viewsGuthrum

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:46 - Sep 22 by lowhouseblue

hurst has tried lots of different things but none of them look to have goals in them. i really can't see where goals will come from. and the overall technical quality of our squad has declined. i don't know about confidence and disharmony but the lack of goals and lack of quality mean that we are going to struggle.


Thing is, both of our young strikers were prolific last season, albeit in lower divisions. I firmly believe the problem is with having only one up top and that player becoming isolated.

That's not something new. Many times I've watched McGoldrick twisting and turning between five defenders, trying to get a shot away, no support on hand to help. These lads do not yet have the guile and experience of McGoldrick or Waghorn.

The supply and support issue is a matter of tactics and coordination. Getting players to work together instinctively, to know where each other is going to be. Of putting balls into the box where someone can get on the end of them, be that crosses or corners. And fast enough to evade defenders' heads or the hands of the goalie.

Something is not clicking mentally. Lots was said today about lack of partnerships on the field. That effortless empathy needs to be built up, drilled, embedded.

We're already passing the ball around in midfield far better than we were last season. But that needs to be carried forward into the opponent's third of the pitch.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:01 - Sep 22 with 3301 viewsGuthrum

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:53 - Sep 22 by Ryorry

Thanks, good points as ever from you. Must say I hadn't thought of the one re potentially putting JW on as an earlier sub - pretty catastrophic to put him on as 3rd sub when he'd been carrying the niggling Achilles problem for at least one, if not two weeks (according to Mick Mills). PH seems to be one helluva risk-taker! esp after our previous risk-averse manager ...

I just had a feeling that if we'd been able to get one win, the club as a whole on all sides might have relaxed & the floodgates opened - well at least comparatively! But who knows of course.


Regarding the win, I think that's still the case. Get one, things will relax to some extent, confidence grow and we could push on.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:03 - Sep 22 with 3293 viewsRoyKeanesDog

He's out of his depth. Charlatan.

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:08 - Sep 22 with 3248 viewsJDB23

Have to say I don't think there has been any signs of it clicking up front. Other positives yes, but pretty much every game we've looked paperweight going forward and I think this is the main worry. There is going to have to be a big change for this to turn around as it's not looked close to happening so far, it's not like we're making lots of chances and just not taking them.
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:09 - Sep 22 with 3243 viewslowhouseblue

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 22:59 - Sep 22 by Guthrum

Thing is, both of our young strikers were prolific last season, albeit in lower divisions. I firmly believe the problem is with having only one up top and that player becoming isolated.

That's not something new. Many times I've watched McGoldrick twisting and turning between five defenders, trying to get a shot away, no support on hand to help. These lads do not yet have the guile and experience of McGoldrick or Waghorn.

The supply and support issue is a matter of tactics and coordination. Getting players to work together instinctively, to know where each other is going to be. Of putting balls into the box where someone can get on the end of them, be that crosses or corners. And fast enough to evade defenders' heads or the hands of the goalie.

Something is not clicking mentally. Lots was said today about lack of partnerships on the field. That effortless empathy needs to be built up, drilled, embedded.

We're already passing the ball around in midfield far better than we were last season. But that needs to be carried forward into the opponent's third of the pitch.


i like jackson - i think he has potential. if he had come into a settled squad with an established formation and pattern of play you could easily see him swapping in for people, having chances to show what he can do and establishing himself as a key player over the course of a season. but we've now got him as our only real option and he certainly isn't yet there. we've had too much change and too many new players who have possible potential all at once to actually develop those players in a sensible way. and of the new signings only jackson and donacien currently look up to the quality of our successful lower league signings from the past. i'm not convinced by nsiala yet, i would certainly have pennington at centre back before him. the rest, including the other loanees, wouldn't be first team regulars if you were building a team in a sensible way.
[Post edited 22 Sep 2018 23:10]

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:31 - Sep 22 with 3138 viewsjeera

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:03 - Sep 22 by RoyKeanesDog

He's out of his depth. Charlatan.



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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:34 - Sep 22 with 3125 viewsPilgrimblue

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:09 - Sep 22 by lowhouseblue

i like jackson - i think he has potential. if he had come into a settled squad with an established formation and pattern of play you could easily see him swapping in for people, having chances to show what he can do and establishing himself as a key player over the course of a season. but we've now got him as our only real option and he certainly isn't yet there. we've had too much change and too many new players who have possible potential all at once to actually develop those players in a sensible way. and of the new signings only jackson and donacien currently look up to the quality of our successful lower league signings from the past. i'm not convinced by nsiala yet, i would certainly have pennington at centre back before him. the rest, including the other loanees, wouldn't be first team regulars if you were building a team in a sensible way.
[Post edited 22 Sep 2018 23:10]


I agree that Pennington looks better in centre than Toto who I thought was too slow and looked vulnerable at times.
Would also prefer Donacien ar RB as he's don every little wrong. Maybe Kenlock should be brought in too so PH must then decide to go either 2 or 3 CBs.
What really annoys me is that we've got better youth than PHs league 1/2 signings. Wolfie is better than Toto, Folami and Morris are better than Harrison and Nydam is better than Nolan IMHO.
I'd sack PH and give our u23 coaches a chance. They know all the players and play with style.
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:45 - Sep 22 with 3053 viewsgordon

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:09 - Sep 22 by lowhouseblue

i like jackson - i think he has potential. if he had come into a settled squad with an established formation and pattern of play you could easily see him swapping in for people, having chances to show what he can do and establishing himself as a key player over the course of a season. but we've now got him as our only real option and he certainly isn't yet there. we've had too much change and too many new players who have possible potential all at once to actually develop those players in a sensible way. and of the new signings only jackson and donacien currently look up to the quality of our successful lower league signings from the past. i'm not convinced by nsiala yet, i would certainly have pennington at centre back before him. the rest, including the other loanees, wouldn't be first team regulars if you were building a team in a sensible way.
[Post edited 22 Sep 2018 23:10]


It's very difficult to see how we've ended up in a situation where our chances of survival might depend on a 24 year-old striker who's moved up two divisions on the basis of one decent season. Seems like a serious misjudgement, which the panic loans of Graham and Walters haven't really solved.
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:57 - Sep 22 with 2994 viewspointofblue

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:34 - Sep 22 by Pilgrimblue

I agree that Pennington looks better in centre than Toto who I thought was too slow and looked vulnerable at times.
Would also prefer Donacien ar RB as he's don every little wrong. Maybe Kenlock should be brought in too so PH must then decide to go either 2 or 3 CBs.
What really annoys me is that we've got better youth than PHs league 1/2 signings. Wolfie is better than Toto, Folami and Morris are better than Harrison and Nydam is better than Nolan IMHO.
I'd sack PH and give our u23 coaches a chance. They know all the players and play with style.


Bearing in mind the job went to Klug after McCarthy and Connor left and he made it clear he didn't want it full time.

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 01:36 - Sep 23 with 2874 viewspatrickswell

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 23:57 - Sep 22 by pointofblue

Bearing in mind the job went to Klug after McCarthy and Connor left and he made it clear he didn't want it full time.


Gerard Nash - come on down!

Or make Chambers player-manager with Skuse as his number 2.
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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 02:49 - Sep 23 with 2816 viewsRyorry

Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 01:36 - Sep 23 by patrickswell

Gerard Nash - come on down!

Or make Chambers player-manager with Skuse as his number 2.


Oddly enough, I actually suggested Chambo as Player-Manager in the chatroom during the game and meant it as a lighthearted throwaway bit of flippancy. But the more I thought about it, the more it kinda seems an almost blindingly obvious left-field solution - tho I guess we'd probably need someone in a DOF role (or similar) alongside him to take care of the transfers etc side of things. Several good candidates spring to mind for that!
[Post edited 23 Sep 2018 2:50]

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Is Hurst out of his depth or are we, the fans? on 07:24 - Sep 23 with 2683 viewsCurrie10

' We need something to click up front and, as I said, there have been signs of that happening but we're lacking consistency. '

Unfortunately, we've very consistent.

We draw at home. We lose away.

I think the fans were unrealistic with Mick. Unfortunately, you are likely to play rubbish footy with no budget / go around trying to bully sides.

However, Hurst is incredibly out of his depth. It's come up with as many changes as possible.

What's coming for Brum away? Stay tuned for next weekends edition of pin the tail on the donkey approach to team selection.
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