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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) 10:49 - Sep 23 with 3844 viewsSomethingBlue

I'm sounding slightly more hysterical than I'd like here but we really need to pull something out of these games, don't we? And it's going to be very tough indeed. Entering the second international break with no wins from 11 would be a massive concern for me. I know we've been here before under Keane and Jewell but back then you did feel we had players good enough to sort it out eventually. This season I'm nowhere near as sure of that.

I would really like to see how Hurst's long-term plan for us pans out, and have said since the first couple of weeks that the time to worry would be if we were really flailing in January, but I'm not sure I expected what has happened since both on and, it seems, off the pitch. It doesn't feel right to me and if we're any worse off going into October then Evans probably has his biggest decision yet. We are going to be relegated as things stand and that would, contrary to some people's opinions, be an utter disaster. We cannot afford for that to happen.
[Post edited 23 Sep 2018 10:50]

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 10:55 - Sep 23 with 3417 viewsBackToRussia

The only positive you can put on it, for me, is that we're already approaching a point where results either turn around or Evans is forced to make a decision. If we have to swap managers, at least we would have done it before Christmas, and have a chance to turn around our season.

Hurst seems a naturally confident person, but in this type of situation, you wonder if it's actually doing more harm than good if the players aren't 100% sure of him.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 10:57 - Sep 23 with 3403 viewsJakeITFC

It feels like the damage is already done in many ways.

I’m not sure the players, the staff or the fans are sure of this management team now. Can we afford to give away many more winnable games by keeping it as is?

The obvious worry is that we might not have a squad good enough for the new manager to salvage much from it (and we will presumably have another huge turnaround in January).
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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 10:57 - Sep 23 with 3396 viewswaveneyblue

Totally agree, but the truth is I cannot see anything other than a point at best from these two games.

So then we go into the break still winless.

The results are obviously very concerning but the performances are the most worrying, theres next to no goal threat and everything seems so difficult for the players.

There's something rotten going on and it needs to be stopped.
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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:00 - Sep 23 with 3371 viewsITFCBlues

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 10:57 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC

It feels like the damage is already done in many ways.

I’m not sure the players, the staff or the fans are sure of this management team now. Can we afford to give away many more winnable games by keeping it as is?

The obvious worry is that we might not have a squad good enough for the new manager to salvage much from it (and we will presumably have another huge turnaround in January).


Who do we turn to though? Another experienced head?

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:02 - Sep 23 with 3371 viewspointofblue

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 10:57 - Sep 23 by waveneyblue

Totally agree, but the truth is I cannot see anything other than a point at best from these two games.

So then we go into the break still winless.

The results are obviously very concerning but the performances are the most worrying, theres next to no goal threat and everything seems so difficult for the players.

There's something rotten going on and it needs to be stopped.


PerformanceS? Yesterday yes, Hull when we got knocked for six early yes, Brentford and Norwich first halves... but there has been promise too that we do have enough about us that we can turn it around?

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:07 - Sep 23 with 3346 viewsSomethingBlue

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 10:57 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC

It feels like the damage is already done in many ways.

I’m not sure the players, the staff or the fans are sure of this management team now. Can we afford to give away many more winnable games by keeping it as is?

The obvious worry is that we might not have a squad good enough for the new manager to salvage much from it (and we will presumably have another huge turnaround in January).


Your last paragraph is exactly my worry. If things continue like this then (a) I'm not sure where the Mick figure to get us out of it is and (b) I'm just not sure we could pull off the kind of upheaval required to get the right players in.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:10 - Sep 23 with 3324 viewswaveneyblue

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:02 - Sep 23 by pointofblue

PerformanceS? Yesterday yes, Hull when we got knocked for six early yes, Brentford and Norwich first halves... but there has been promise too that we do have enough about us that we can turn it around?


Add Derby to the list of poor, we could've played another 90 minutes and wouldn't have scored.

I would go as far to day, I.dont think we have actually deserved to win a single match this season.
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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:12 - Sep 23 with 3307 viewstractorboy1978

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:02 - Sep 23 by pointofblue

PerformanceS? Yesterday yes, Hull when we got knocked for six early yes, Brentford and Norwich first halves... but there has been promise too that we do have enough about us that we can turn it around?


We can always find excuses - harsh red card, late goal going against us, not getting a decision from the ref. The reality is that we've played alright in spells but still not created enough chances, scored enough goals and conceded sloppy goals. To me, we look a side destined for a proper relegation scrap. Naive, lacking in quality in the final third and cannot get over the line in games. Our strikers have scored 1 league goal between them in 9 games. We have a manager that still doesn't know his best team and there is apparent unrest behind the scenes. It isn't boding well.
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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:15 - Sep 23 with 3284 viewspointofblue

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:10 - Sep 23 by waveneyblue

Add Derby to the list of poor, we could've played another 90 minutes and wouldn't have scored.

I would go as far to day, I.dont think we have actually deserved to win a single match this season.


Rotherham?

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:22 - Sep 23 with 3249 viewstractorboy1978

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:15 - Sep 23 by pointofblue

Rotherham?


Had good possession but didn't really test the keeper - 3 shots on target and he didn't have to pull off any spectacular saves.
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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:26 - Sep 23 with 3243 viewsGuthrum

I expected we were going to start slowly and pick up around Christmas, with maybe a run up the table in the last few weeks. Will probably still happen that way, however, wasn't thinking it would be this slowly, or that there would be so few positive signs yet.

We can cope for another month or so, but there absolutely has to be some indication of progess and building during that period. If he's not managed to switch things on even slightly by then, one might have to draw the conclusion that Hurst may not be capable of doing it.

Much like the final losing run under Jewell, when it became abundantly clear he didn't have any answer to the situation, was beyond his powers and we were going down if it was allowed to continue.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:31 - Sep 23 with 3196 viewsGuthrum

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 10:57 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC

It feels like the damage is already done in many ways.

I’m not sure the players, the staff or the fans are sure of this management team now. Can we afford to give away many more winnable games by keeping it as is?

The obvious worry is that we might not have a squad good enough for the new manager to salvage much from it (and we will presumably have another huge turnaround in January).


I really don't think the squad is that bad, with a few disappointing exceptions. The defence is reasonably solid, the midfield can pass it around, we have a bit of pace in Edwards and Jackson.

Mainly it's lacking in cohesion, there isn't an effective plan for bringing attacks to a successful conclusion.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:41 - Sep 23 with 3149 viewsDarth_Koont

I don't think that's an overreaction at all.

The two things that are keeping me a little hopeful of a change around (but definitely not expectant) is that, A, we're holding our own in games for the most part and B, we should see if a win takes away a lot of issues and give some confidence and momentum to both Hurst and the team.

The problem with B is that we can't wait much longer.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:42 - Sep 23 with 3140 viewsSomethingBlue

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:31 - Sep 23 by Guthrum

I really don't think the squad is that bad, with a few disappointing exceptions. The defence is reasonably solid, the midfield can pass it around, we have a bit of pace in Edwards and Jackson.

Mainly it's lacking in cohesion, there isn't an effective plan for bringing attacks to a successful conclusion.


The attributes you mention are true but do we have the quality to go with it? Or, apart from two or three obvious exceptions, the battle-hardenedness (not a word, I know)? I don't think so. We are in trouble.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:42 - Sep 23 with 3137 viewsSWGF

The international break would see us 25% of the way through the season. The sort of round figure you may put into a contract as a break clause should you, for example, be in the bottom three at that time...

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:44 - Sep 23 with 3123 viewsSWGF

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:26 - Sep 23 by Guthrum

I expected we were going to start slowly and pick up around Christmas, with maybe a run up the table in the last few weeks. Will probably still happen that way, however, wasn't thinking it would be this slowly, or that there would be so few positive signs yet.

We can cope for another month or so, but there absolutely has to be some indication of progess and building during that period. If he's not managed to switch things on even slightly by then, one might have to draw the conclusion that Hurst may not be capable of doing it.

Much like the final losing run under Jewell, when it became abundantly clear he didn't have any answer to the situation, was beyond his powers and we were going down if it was allowed to continue.


My main concern is the complete lack of progress. We're getting worse and more desperate in each match.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:45 - Sep 23 with 3116 viewsMullet

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:22 - Sep 23 by tractorboy1978

Had good possession but didn't really test the keeper - 3 shots on target and he didn't have to pull off any spectacular saves.


We had a stonewall penalty bottled by a ref and linesman who if they didn't see it shouldn't be officiating. But again if that's the pinnacle under Hurst then we are doomed.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:49 - Sep 23 with 3080 viewsReuser_is_God

Also Swansea (a) before that break too.

6 points from those 3 games needed IMO

Evans out
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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:50 - Sep 23 with 3077 viewsGuthrum

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:42 - Sep 23 by SomethingBlue

The attributes you mention are true but do we have the quality to go with it? Or, apart from two or three obvious exceptions, the battle-hardenedness (not a word, I know)? I don't think so. We are in trouble.


I don't believe the gap between League One and the Champ is that huge, if the players are well-led and organised. Our lower division recruits have over 100 first team games each under their belts, they aren't raw youths who've never faced pressure situations before. Neither are they limited journeymen, but players whose careers have been on upward trajectories before arriving at town.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:50 - Sep 23 with 3069 viewsJakeITFC

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:31 - Sep 23 by Guthrum

I really don't think the squad is that bad, with a few disappointing exceptions. The defence is reasonably solid, the midfield can pass it around, we have a bit of pace in Edwards and Jackson.

Mainly it's lacking in cohesion, there isn't an effective plan for bringing attacks to a successful conclusion.


As alluded to below, I just think we are missing quality as well as savvy.

To get points at this level you need a sprinkling of quality, a real resoluteness and people who can put the ball in the back of the net. We’ve unfortunately let all three of those qualities go without replacing them.

At least when MM came in he had a squad (an admittedly gouged and messy one) that had proven quality at this level, and more importantly had the chance to make decisions in and out ASAP with the loan window. Whoever becomes the firefighter in this scenario doesn’t really have much of a back-to-basics starting point.
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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:52 - Sep 23 with 3060 viewsReuser_is_God

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:44 - Sep 23 by SWGF

My main concern is the complete lack of progress. We're getting worse and more desperate in each match.


My concern is how we went from being very good second half against Brentford to completely abject yesterday.

Evans out
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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:57 - Sep 23 with 3025 viewspointofblue

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:45 - Sep 23 by Mullet

We had a stonewall penalty bottled by a ref and linesman who if they didn't see it shouldn't be officiating. But again if that's the pinnacle under Hurst then we are doomed.


Though I do argue this where “decisions even themselves up” is absolute rubbish. We get the penalty, we win the game, suddenly that monkey is off our backs. Nsiala isn’t sanctioned against Sheffield Wednesday we may have at least got a draw, our first away point. These things breed confidence and momentum. Yes, it could have gone the other way - we could have thrown a lead away at Rotherham and still lost to Wednesday, but it’d have been nice to find out. One decision can affect a season, no matter how much others try and say otherwise.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:58 - Sep 23 with 3021 viewsITFCBlues

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:52 - Sep 23 by Reuser_is_God

My concern is how we went from being very good second half against Brentford to completely abject yesterday.


I think the red was actually detrimental in the end. Meant that they just sat behind the ball

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 12:00 - Sep 23 with 3005 viewspointofblue

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:58 - Sep 23 by ITFCBlues

I think the red was actually detrimental in the end. Meant that they just sat behind the ball


I agree - even under Mick we struggled to break down teams that just came here to defend. We needed, and still need, space to play into.

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Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 12:25 - Sep 23 with 2923 viewstractorboy1978

Birmingham (a) and Boro (h) on 11:57 - Sep 23 by pointofblue

Though I do argue this where “decisions even themselves up” is absolute rubbish. We get the penalty, we win the game, suddenly that monkey is off our backs. Nsiala isn’t sanctioned against Sheffield Wednesday we may have at least got a draw, our first away point. These things breed confidence and momentum. Yes, it could have gone the other way - we could have thrown a lead away at Rotherham and still lost to Wednesday, but it’d have been nice to find out. One decision can affect a season, no matter how much others try and say otherwise.


One moment of quality can change a season too and we've not had it so far. If Jackson rifles it in when one on one on Tuesday we MAY have seen a more confident performance yesterday. Overall, we look naive and lacking in quality. One or two players can make a huge difference, if we still had Waghorn we'd have at least a win under our belts. I don't think any of the new signings are poor per se but as a unit we don't look strong enough.
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