| A general election in November? on 09:16 - Sep 24 with 2861 views | Steve_M |
Ah, a choice between a pro-Brexit party and, err, a pro-Brexit party. Like it's going to make a great deal of difference. |  |
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| A general election in November? on 09:24 - Sep 24 with 2844 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The last election drew the biggest turn out for some time. And after a bit of horse trading and a few billion of taxpayers' money given to a dozen Irish fascists, hey presto we had a tory government voted for by precisely 42% of the electorate. The will of the people must be heard - unless its more convenient to ignore them. |  |
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| A general election in November? on 09:27 - Sep 24 with 2834 views | ITFC_Forever |
But there's no party worth voting for...... is there a "none-of-the-above" option? |  |
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| A general election in November? on 09:45 - Sep 24 with 2799 views | StokieBlue |
| A general election in November? on 09:16 - Sep 24 by Steve_M |
Ah, a choice between a pro-Brexit party and, err, a pro-Brexit party. Like it's going to make a great deal of difference. |
Indeed, McDonnell has just said that even if Labour have a second vote that remain won't be one of the options.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A general election in November? on 09:50 - Sep 24 with 2784 views | Steve_M |
| A general election in November? on 09:45 - Sep 24 by StokieBlue |
Indeed, McDonnell has just said that even if Labour have a second vote that remain won't be one of the options.
SB |
Not that it's a surprise, had he wanted to him and Corbyn could have pushed for single market membership after last year's general election but he explicitly ruled it out days later.
Ideologically sure that they'll get exactly what they want they are mirror images of the ERG zealots. | |
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| A general election in November? on 09:56 - Sep 24 with 2771 views | manchego |
| A general election in November? on 09:16 - Sep 24 by Steve_M |
Ah, a choice between a pro-Brexit party and, err, a pro-Brexit party. Like it's going to make a great deal of difference. |
No viable party offering to stay in Europe after 48% wanted to stay in. I stopped voting labour after the Iraq war but this is the clincher. |  | | |
| A general election in November? on 09:59 - Sep 24 with 2760 views | StokieBlue |
| A general election in November? on 09:56 - Sep 24 by manchego |
No viable party offering to stay in Europe after 48% wanted to stay in. I stopped voting labour after the Iraq war but this is the clincher. |
A true centrist party could really cause a stir though offering a remain remit.
Tories likely know this so November wouldn't give enough time for such a party to get off the ground.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A general election in November? on 10:05 - Sep 24 with 2748 views | WeWereZombies |
| A general election in November? on 09:56 - Sep 24 by manchego |
No viable party offering to stay in Europe after 48% wanted to stay in. I stopped voting labour after the Iraq war but this is the clincher. |
I was listening to 'The Reunion' a few weeks ago, the one on the formation of the SDP and thinking about those times and the similarities with now. But to be a winner a new party would have to set itself up to catch a fair few Tories, the Chancellor even, whilst avoiding bringing in Blair, Cameron, Osborne and Clegg. |  |
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| A general election in November? on 10:06 - Sep 24 with 2746 views | CoachRob |
| A general election in November? on 09:59 - Sep 24 by StokieBlue |
A true centrist party could really cause a stir though offering a remain remit.
Tories likely know this so November wouldn't give enough time for such a party to get off the ground.
SB |
Would this centrist party be based around neoliberalism and follow the same path as Emmanuel Macron (currently at 29% popularity in France)?
Would the centrist party be filled with people like Anna Soubry and Chuka Umunna? |  | | |
| A general election in November? on 10:11 - Sep 24 with 2730 views | WeWereZombies |
| A general election in November? on 10:06 - Sep 24 by CoachRob |
Would this centrist party be based around neoliberalism and follow the same path as Emmanuel Macron (currently at 29% popularity in France)?
Would the centrist party be filled with people like Anna Soubry and Chuka Umunna? |
Care to expand on your opinion of Soubry and Umunna? | |
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| A general election in November? on 10:12 - Sep 24 with 2727 views | StokieBlue |
| A general election in November? on 10:06 - Sep 24 by CoachRob |
Would this centrist party be based around neoliberalism and follow the same path as Emmanuel Macron (currently at 29% popularity in France)?
Would the centrist party be filled with people like Anna Soubry and Chuka Umunna? |
Macron is done for, he's handled everything badly.
It would just be a party living in the centre ground which still appeals to many. Literally would campaign on a remain remit. No need to go into technical terminology as I think most can understand the type of positions it would hold (and yes, probably people like Chuka would be the type).
I mainly want it because it would be hillarous, especially with Blair being somewhere involved - the meltdowns would be epic and very funny.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A general election in November? on 10:17 - Sep 24 with 2708 views | CoachRob |
| A general election in November? on 10:11 - Sep 24 by WeWereZombies |
Care to expand on your opinion of Soubry and Umunna? |
I see these two as like the "Hillary" Democrats in the US. Based in neoliberal doctrine and trying to project to the public that more of the same will be good for everyone. Centrism is an old fashioned way of ordering society and the economy. | | | |
| A general election in November? on 10:20 - Sep 24 with 2697 views | StokieBlue |
| A general election in November? on 10:17 - Sep 24 by CoachRob |
I see these two as like the "Hillary" Democrats in the US. Based in neoliberal doctrine and trying to project to the public that more of the same will be good for everyone. Centrism is an old fashioned way of ordering society and the economy. |
Why is it old fashioned?
Seems an awful lot like an opinion stated as fact, it's an opinion an awful lot of people won't agree with.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A general election in November? on 10:22 - Sep 24 with 2691 views | CoachRob |
| A general election in November? on 10:12 - Sep 24 by StokieBlue |
Macron is done for, he's handled everything badly.
It would just be a party living in the centre ground which still appeals to many. Literally would campaign on a remain remit. No need to go into technical terminology as I think most can understand the type of positions it would hold (and yes, probably people like Chuka would be the type).
I mainly want it because it would be hillarous, especially with Blair being somewhere involved - the meltdowns would be epic and very funny.
SB |
Maybe get the old band back together - Blair and Brown.
I agree the idea of any of these people speaking from any position of moral authority would make everybody laugh.
Would be interested to understand how you marry younger remainers with neoliberal doctrine or is this party to be targeted at Generation X and above? | | | |
| A general election in November? on 10:25 - Sep 24 with 2687 views | WeWereZombies |
| A general election in November? on 10:12 - Sep 24 by StokieBlue |
Macron is done for, he's handled everything badly.
It would just be a party living in the centre ground which still appeals to many. Literally would campaign on a remain remit. No need to go into technical terminology as I think most can understand the type of positions it would hold (and yes, probably people like Chuka would be the type).
I mainly want it because it would be hillarous, especially with Blair being somewhere involved - the meltdowns would be epic and very funny.
SB |
Well if we are going down that route then it needs Farage to have an epiphany and to actually get elected for a seat in a British parliament and then be party leader. Remained abstaining from voting Remain, Leavers following their hero and voting to stay in the EU, actually not such a great idea because the apolitical would just carry on voting Tory. | |
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| A general election in November? on 10:29 - Sep 24 with 2678 views | No9 |
| A general election in November? on 09:59 - Sep 24 by StokieBlue |
A true centrist party could really cause a stir though offering a remain remit.
Tories likely know this so November wouldn't give enough time for such a party to get off the ground.
SB |
With ERG supposedly offering their EU brexit paper this week & the grassrotts tory party chairmen (according to yesterdays politics) demanding a meeting with Mrs May to kill off Chequers and HUnt implying the tories will accept a Canada FT agreement & Davis sipping wine with Farage it is all looking more than a little bit fraught.
So who will win the G.E- if held the tory hard right, grass roots, Hunt or ???? | | | |
| A general election in November? on 10:36 - Sep 24 with 2659 views | No9 |
| A general election in November? on 09:16 - Sep 24 by Steve_M |
Ah, a choice between a pro-Brexit party and, err, a pro-Brexit party. Like it's going to make a great deal of difference. |
The major task facing UK politicians is to understand the International laws comprised of the EU.
This of course should have been done before issuing A50 but it wasn't & we are left with an unholy mess initially created by Cameron /Clegg & voted on by MP's not knowing what they were doing.
So in that respect your are correct. | | | |
| A general election in November? on 10:39 - Sep 24 with 2649 views | chicoazul |
| A general election in November? on 09:50 - Sep 24 by Steve_M |
Not that it's a surprise, had he wanted to him and Corbyn could have pushed for single market membership after last year's general election but he explicitly ruled it out days later.
Ideologically sure that they'll get exactly what they want they are mirror images of the ERG zealots. |
I think we would be in for a much softer Brexit under the Maximum Leader than the current lot, simply because he and his team are such a bunch of melts who have never negotiated anything more difficult than local borough parking restrictions and they would basically do exactly what the EU told them to. |  |
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| A general election in November? on 10:40 - Sep 24 with 2645 views | Coastalblue |
So we get either Hunt or Starmer, damned if you do and damned if you don't. Might just as well wait until the dust settles now unless there's some alternative that appears out of nowhere. |  |
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| A general election in November? on 10:46 - Sep 24 with 2630 views | GlasgowBlue |
| A general election in November? on 09:56 - Sep 24 by manchego |
No viable party offering to stay in Europe after 48% wanted to stay in. I stopped voting labour after the Iraq war but this is the clincher. |
At the last election, just over a year ago, the only party campaigning to remain got less than 8% of the vote. Where did the 48% go?
Genuine question. |  |
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| A general election in November? on 10:46 - Sep 24 with 2632 views | thebooks |
| A general election in November? on 09:16 - Sep 24 by Steve_M |
Ah, a choice between a pro-Brexit party and, err, a pro-Brexit party. Like it's going to make a great deal of difference. |
Labour's strategy is to push for a general election first and then keep in the customs union and single market, should they get in to government. If that doesn't happen they'll support a second vote. This is clearly more "pro-European" than the Tories.
There's no way May's proposals will get through parliament; Labour will never support them under Starmer's "6 tests", so a general election appears to be the most likely outcome, I think.
As for anyone thinking a new centrist party will gain any traction just needs to look at the Lib Dems and what happened to every centre left party across Europe, including the French socialists. Macron won because of the socialists' collapse, which left him the unifying option to fight the far right. |  | | |
| A general election in November? on 10:53 - Sep 24 with 2608 views | GlasgowBlue |
| A general election in November? on 10:46 - Sep 24 by thebooks |
Labour's strategy is to push for a general election first and then keep in the customs union and single market, should they get in to government. If that doesn't happen they'll support a second vote. This is clearly more "pro-European" than the Tories.
There's no way May's proposals will get through parliament; Labour will never support them under Starmer's "6 tests", so a general election appears to be the most likely outcome, I think.
As for anyone thinking a new centrist party will gain any traction just needs to look at the Lib Dems and what happened to every centre left party across Europe, including the French socialists. Macron won because of the socialists' collapse, which left him the unifying option to fight the far right. |
Corbyn has said we would leave the single market.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/08/jeremy-corbyn-eu-single-market-
He has said this on numerous occasions yet people still think he would keep us in. It's as if people actually ignore what the bloke says.
This is Tony Benn's bag carrier at every anti EU meeting we are talking about. The man who voted against Maastricht and Lisbon.
Edit Machron formed En Marche after the socialist vote collapsed in the opinion polls. Not the other way around. [Post edited 24 Sep 2018 10:55]
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| A general election in November? on 10:55 - Sep 24 with 2604 views | CoachRob |
| A general election in November? on 10:46 - Sep 24 by GlasgowBlue |
At the last election, just over a year ago, the only party campaigning to remain got less than 8% of the vote. Where did the 48% go?
Genuine question. |
People in the real world have issues like housing, education, healthcare, money wages, defence etc that are more important than Brexit. The Lib Dems don't have any policies that stand out as being different or innovative. | | | |
| A general election in November? on 10:56 - Sep 24 with 2594 views | Coastalblue |
| A general election in November? on 10:53 - Sep 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Corbyn has said we would leave the single market.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/08/jeremy-corbyn-eu-single-market-
He has said this on numerous occasions yet people still think he would keep us in. It's as if people actually ignore what the bloke says.
This is Tony Benn's bag carrier at every anti EU meeting we are talking about. The man who voted against Maastricht and Lisbon.
Edit Machron formed En Marche after the socialist vote collapsed in the opinion polls. Not the other way around. [Post edited 24 Sep 2018 10:55]
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That may be right, but surely what McDonnell says is more relevant? | |
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| A general election in November? on 10:58 - Sep 24 with 2587 views | chicoazul |
| A general election in November? on 10:56 - Sep 24 by Coastalblue |
That may be right, but surely what McDonnell says is more relevant? |
It *IS RIGHT*. There is no "maybe" about it. All of what Glassers just said is correct. | |
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