| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now 15:59 - Sep 25 with 1852 views | No_Moore_Kieffer |
Lots of debate at the moment on whether Hurst should be backed or sacked. As I posted on SpruceMoose's thread, for now I'm a concerned 'Hurst inner'.
Looking back to the Blackburn game, we all went into it positively, hoping for a new, more enjoyable era of football and entertainment. 10-15 games was the touted mark at which we should reflect (not decide his fate) on what progress was being made. As we reach the former, this is my view so far.
Blackburn (H):
I went into this game with the attitude of "I want to win, but I'll be happy so long as we get a point. Don't lose and it'll be a good start."
Right from fixture release day, I said I wasn't a fan of our fixture list. We started against a very good Blackburn side who were far too good for League 1 and who I believe will be at least 16th, but more likely around 12th, if not higher this season. Not an easy game. Then we had newly promoted, full of confidence Rotherham - I'd have preferred playing them when they'd been on a confidence-draining run, not whilst on the crest of a wave. Then a few tougher games in Villa, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Norwich.
So back onto my initial point - I think we were all happy enough with the lineup. A couple of new signings, Flynn Downes starting with Woolfenden, Dozzell, Morris and Kenlock on the bench, it was exactly what we'd been asking for.
5 minutes in and the signs were good - a rejuvenated looking Freddie Sears put a very good ball into the box and new boy Gwion Edwards headed in to give us the perfect start under the new regime.
Unfortunately, we didn't hold on and shortly fell behind, but that's all a part of the learning curve for a new squad, getting used to a new manager's ideas in a largely unfamiliar league. Nonetheless, we got a point thanks to a somewhat fortunate late equaliser from Tayo Edun. There were also appearances for Luke Woolfenden and Ben Morris who both came off the bench, to further show that the youngsters would be given a chance.
Next up we went to Rotherham, where many expected we'd get our first win of the season. After dominating the game with 763 shots and 98% possession (apparently, I wasn't actually there to verify those figures) we came away with an unfortunate, last minute defeat after conceding from a set piece that shouldn't have been awarded supposedly. There was anger at this result, but what stopped me worrying was that this would even itself out over the course of the season. There'll be a top side who we unexpectedly beat, and/or a game we get battered in that we'll win and that'll have cancelled out this result - 9 times out of 10 we'd have won that game, this just happened to be that 10th instance. Additionally, we may have come away with 3 points had the referee given one of the two penalty shouts we had at 0-0. We'd have had something to hold on to, not committed so many men forwards and been less vulnerable to counter attacks, which was where their winning free kick came from. With more space behind a more attacking Rotherham, perhaps we'd have even scored two or three.
"Mick would have won us that game!!!!111!" I heard people stating - are you sure? He didn't get brilliant results against Rotherham, with just 1 solitary win in the last 5. 1W, 1D and 3L are the record we had under him over the last 5 games.
Unfortunately none of our youth prospects got any minutes in the game, which was another downside.
I was then one of the 350 or so fans who made the long midweek trip to Exeter in the Carabao Cup. Positive #1 of the night - we didn't play a rotated team (including in goal, though I thought Gerken should have started) which was something we all wanted to see. The players seemed to not take the game too seriously, however, as if we were too good to play Exeter so lowered our effort levels, which isn't down to Hurst. Nonetheless, we played some neat passing football and the ethos displayed in the Blackburn game was certainly still there, just looking unfamiliar which isn't an issue or shock 3 games in. We just about edged the first half on overall quality and went into half time deservedly 1-0 up, with Jackson's "goal" being very fortunate.
The second half was a bit of a mixed bag. Another positive from the game was the second half introduction of the returning Danny Rowe and Teddy Bishop. Both players looked comfortable. Rowe had direct running and pace, he looked a threat, whilst Bishop was calm on the ball and made one or two good defensive tackles before having a chance to snatch the victory late on when he couldn't quite connect with a back post cross.
Irritatingly, it was another Bart mistake and another set piece (the third in 3 games) that we conceded from. Poor goalkeeping, poor marking. The game went to penalties. Losing to anyone on penalties is always partly down to bad luck, so for me this isn't a criticism of Paul Hurst. The players let him down on the night. Did I have any issues with his post-match comments? Not particularly, although I appreciate some people may have preferred them to be kept private, but we'd have all moaned if he came out saying he wasn't too displeased.
Back to Portman Road and we had a tough game against big-spending Aston Villa. After playing more than half of the game with 10 men, to come out with a draw after going behind is a very creditable result and a real battling performance had renewed some of the positive mood within the fanbase. A platform to build from, arguably. Kenlock got some minutes under his belt, though admittedly not a great deal, whilst Downes was again on the bench. Another couple of positives from the game.
Many feel this was the turning point in the season, in terms of on pitch viewings and off pitch ongoings, which I'll get to later.
After the Saturday, the players were understandably going to be feeling it, then a journey up to Derby won't have helped. For the first half, we never looked like scoring other than on a couple of occassions, whilst we never seemed threatened by Derby either. In the second half, that all changed as Derby scored twice - both of those took deflections, both were set pieces (either directly or indirectly) and again Bart wasn't totally guilt-free. Luck had not been on our side once all season, and we just never got back into it. A result we probably expected, increasingly so under the circumstances. What was worrying was the ongoing inability to defend set pieces, Bart's form and the lack of an obvious goal threat.
Once again Downes played the best part of 45 minutes, whilst Kenlock was on the bench.
Next we faced a trip up to Sheffield Wednesday. We again had Downes and Kenlock on the bench (with the former coming on, the latter not).
Town had multiple chances to take the lead, with the final ball again the issue, be it the shot or the cross. For the first 15 minutes, if anyone was going to score, it was us. That was until The Owls won themselves a corner (shock!!) which we failed to defend (shock!!).
Despite that, our heads didn't drop and if there was to be a second goal it looked like coming to us after again creating a number of good scoring opportunities. Harrison, Edwards, Knudsen and Nolan all had chances to get on the scoresheet, but rather ironically it was Nsiala who did so, from a corner! From the same position, he almost did so again before half time, but going in at half time level wasn't a disaster nor undeserved.
We all know what happened in the second half. We pushed for a winner, ended up having a man incorrectly sent off, conceded from the resulting free kick and lost the game. Somewhat unjustly, in my opinion.
Yes, we should have taken our chances, not just in this game but all of the others, but you felt the ball wasn't quite dropping for us, it was always an inch out - a theme which is ongoing even 10 games in.
We all hoped our derby game vs Norwich, the last before the September international break, would be the game that brought us our first win - it was written in the stars, surely?
This was the first game that really brought concern in larger quantities. Our passing style had gone, it was more direct than we'd seen under Hurst before, the lineup was a big shock, including dropping Bart - a justified decision based on form and the fact Gerken hasn't let us down.
Walters hit the post, our defensive set pieces seemed improved, we were showing real attacking intent, with a threat from set pieces and even went in front. Sadly, that didn't last, both sides could have won it but a draw it was, maybe fairly upon reflection. The football wasn't pretty, we looked bang average, but in a derby game this can be forgiven, just don't lose. Downes and Kenlock remained unused subs.
Hull away was the first game after the international break and for me this was the turning point. A struggling side, a poor side, a side we should be beating. We didn't. We were awful from minute 1 to minute 90. We had seemingly gone backwards over the 2 week break rather than working on things that hadn't quite worked thus far. We didn't pass particularly well, we didn't score despite numerous good chances and we were poor at the back, only Gerken keeping the scoreline "respectable".
Add to that, Flynn Downes was the only homegrown player in the 18 and he started the game but didn't finish it; however Danny Rowe continued his comeback with another 15 minutes under his belt. Not many positives here, admittedly.
When you're on a run as poor as we were, having high flying Brentford 3 days later wasn't ideal and again controversy was rife upon seeing the line up. 5-3-2? No wingers? Two defensive midfielders? A lack of consistency in the formation and players is a bit worrying, especially as it's borne from desperation for a win. Hurst needs to stick to his ideas and philosophy, that's where his success has built from and what got him the job.
That first half, there's no hiding it, we were awful. Worse than against Hull. All progress seemed to have gone, we'd gone backwards. No identity, no ideas, no style.
Credit where it's due, his half time changes worked excellently. Returning to what we knew in 4-2-3-1, wingers getting involved and a real attacking threat. We deserved a draw from that half at least, but a win wouldn't have been undeserved. It's just frustrating we didn't start that way.
Only Downes was in the squad, in terms of academy players, but wasn't used.
Most recently we've played Bolton. A must win. Although admittedly all games are becoming that now. We played well overall against an average side who'll likely finish between 17th and 24th.
We did create a few chances and had a big advantage playing against 10 men once Bolton had a man dismissed, but a 0-0 was still the outcome. A wonder save denied us all 3 points, so again fine margins. They did to us what we did to Villa. But a clean sheet, Downes came on and Kenlock was on the bench, but again unused.
So my summary is this -
Positives:
- Unbeaten at home
- More passing football than under MM
- Edwards, Jackson and Donacien look excellent purchases
- Downes is getting some minutes
- More excitement to our game
- Appears to be learning lately, with regards to his comments on making it difficult for the players to play and changing tactics at half time v Brentford.
- Improved on defending set pieces
- Nurturing Dozzell's comeback very carefully
- Loaned out Emmanuel, who's not good enough to start over JD but needs game time
- Loaned out Morris, who again needs games but wouldn't be starting for us
- One win can change everything
- Only fine margins holding us back, whether it's the ball bouncing an inch in the wrong place, hitting the woodwork, the chances are coming. We just need to be more clinical and goals will come.
- If Birmingham get a point deduction, we'll be in a much healthier position without kicking a ball
- We play Birmingham next, which is very winnable. Do so and we can be out of the relegation zone.
Negatives:
- Winless
- Lack of goals
- Lack of clean sheets
- Too much rotation
- Less passing and style in last 3 games
- Academy not being used as much as we'd liked/expected
- Loaned out Nydam and Woolfenden who could've played a part
- Apparent unrest in the club
For me, as we've not had any luck with decisions and we're only 1%/1 inch out in terms of the final ball, I'd say stick, rather than twist. Once we get a bit of luck and the ball falls right for us, the goals and subsequently results will come. Four points from the next 3 is achievable imo. Then hopefully Huws and Bishop will be closer to returning with the week off for international games.
Most of us would accept staying up by a last minute goal on the final day and building from there and we're not close to being that bad yet. See how these 3 games go. If we pick up 4/5 points, get a clear philosophy back and things look up, I think a lot more people will be more relaxed about the situation. I believe we'll stay up. |  | | |  |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 16:12 - Sep 25 with 1814 views | Illinoisblue |
Also an inner; there's no way ITFC should be sacking managers after just 10 games. Utterly absurd to begin to think that's long enough to give someone a chance.
I would, though, question your list of positives, particularly the "more passing" claim. I haven't noticed that at all and still see plenty of aimless hoofing and Chambers shanking the ball into touch. |  |
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| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 16:34 - Sep 25 with 1769 views | Ftnfwest |
There's no doubt somethings happened over the international break that has made things very difficult for this current management regime, self inflicted or otherwise. After Villa, you're right it looked fairly promising and even after 2 away defeats to follow, the Nodge game i could kind of understand going with a more direct approach having just recruited Walters, rather than compete with them at a passing game. But since the break its been dire really.
I really did find myself the other day feeling as if we were already in November and yes would should be thinking of changing the manager before it too late but then i realised its still September, the season just seems to be lasting for ages all the while we haven't won a game. |  | | |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 17:29 - Sep 25 with 1714 views | No_Moore_Kieffer |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 16:12 - Sep 25 by Illinoisblue |
Also an inner; there's no way ITFC should be sacking managers after just 10 games. Utterly absurd to begin to think that's long enough to give someone a chance.
I would, though, question your list of positives, particularly the "more passing" claim. I haven't noticed that at all and still see plenty of aimless hoofing and Chambers shanking the ball into touch. |
I agree that lately it has been more direct and often aimless hoofs. But I think overall it is still, at least in passages, less direct and easier on the eye than under McCarthy. Although our kick off routine of passing it to Chambers who then proceeds to whack it towards the corner flag is something I'd like to see changed.
It's not perfect, but we're 10 games in. I'd like to think it's become more direct whilst they work on the passing style in training and integrate it slowly, so hopefully we see evidence of this over coming weeks. | | | |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 17:38 - Sep 25 with 1695 views | BlueBadger |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 16:12 - Sep 25 by Illinoisblue |
Also an inner; there's no way ITFC should be sacking managers after just 10 games. Utterly absurd to begin to think that's long enough to give someone a chance.
I would, though, question your list of positives, particularly the "more passing" claim. I haven't noticed that at all and still see plenty of aimless hoofing and Chambers shanking the ball into touch. |
In all fairness, it was fairly evident that Roy Keane was patently unsuited to the job at ten games.. |  |
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| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 18:56 - Sep 25 with 1617 views | Garv |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 16:12 - Sep 25 by Illinoisblue |
Also an inner; there's no way ITFC should be sacking managers after just 10 games. Utterly absurd to begin to think that's long enough to give someone a chance.
I would, though, question your list of positives, particularly the "more passing" claim. I haven't noticed that at all and still see plenty of aimless hoofing and Chambers shanking the ball into touch. |
Did you see the Bolton game? Genuine question.
Chambers and Toto were bringing the ball out and making passes, albeit not spectacular ones, other than when Gerken used Pennington's aerial ability on the flank (which worked). I really don't think there was much shanking. Generally there has been more passing over all, not just against Bolton. At times we have been quite direct of course, which is good. It worked against Norwich and it should have led to us winning the game. |  |
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| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:00 - Sep 25 with 1607 views | SpruceMoose |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 18:56 - Sep 25 by Garv |
Did you see the Bolton game? Genuine question.
Chambers and Toto were bringing the ball out and making passes, albeit not spectacular ones, other than when Gerken used Pennington's aerial ability on the flank (which worked). I really don't think there was much shanking. Generally there has been more passing over all, not just against Bolton. At times we have been quite direct of course, which is good. It worked against Norwich and it should have led to us winning the game. |
I saw the Bolton game. I lost count of the aimless long balls and terrible crossing. I disagree that there has been more of an emphasis on passing football, maybe in the first half again Blackburn, but since then it's been a real mish mash of hoofball, without the players able to play it. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:06 - Sep 25 with 1598 views | Garv |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:00 - Sep 25 by SpruceMoose |
I saw the Bolton game. I lost count of the aimless long balls and terrible crossing. I disagree that there has been more of an emphasis on passing football, maybe in the first half again Blackburn, but since then it's been a real mish mash of hoofball, without the players able to play it. |
Completely disagree. Not saying we've been Barcelona but we have passed it. Even players have admitted the main change in training methods is ball possession and passing between the lines.
I lost count of the amount of times we got the ball to Nolan or Edun just outside the box, only for them not to be able to do anything with it. Our problem is the lack of quality where it matters, not the ability to pass the ball. | |
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| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:22 - Sep 25 with 1580 views | SpruceMoose |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:06 - Sep 25 by Garv |
Completely disagree. Not saying we've been Barcelona but we have passed it. Even players have admitted the main change in training methods is ball possession and passing between the lines.
I lost count of the amount of times we got the ball to Nolan or Edun just outside the box, only for them not to be able to do anything with it. Our problem is the lack of quality where it matters, not the ability to pass the ball. |
I have no idea how you can say that, and consider the fact that you seem to be the only person on here saying that, when in multiple games this season it has not been the case. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:32 - Sep 25 with 1565 views | 44_not_out |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:06 - Sep 25 by Garv |
Completely disagree. Not saying we've been Barcelona but we have passed it. Even players have admitted the main change in training methods is ball possession and passing between the lines.
I lost count of the amount of times we got the ball to Nolan or Edun just outside the box, only for them not to be able to do anything with it. Our problem is the lack of quality where it matters, not the ability to pass the ball. |
I must have been at another match!
But it’s good to see Paul Hurst has joined the forum and is attempting to ‘put a spin’ on things.
It was woeful! [Post edited 25 Sep 2018 19:34]
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| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:47 - Sep 25 with 1540 views | jas0999 |
Would I agree with sacking the manager? Probably not.
But he seems so very much out of his depth. It’s been very poor. | | | |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 20:59 - Sep 25 with 1485 views | Garv |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 19:22 - Sep 25 by SpruceMoose |
I have no idea how you can say that, and consider the fact that you seem to be the only person on here saying that, when in multiple games this season it has not been the case. |
I'm not the only person.
We've played direct, but to say we haven't tried to introduce a better style of play generally i.e on the floor, compared to last year, would be wrong. | |
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| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 21:19 - Sep 25 with 1449 views | pointofblue |
| Why I'm still Hurst in - for now on 20:59 - Sep 25 by Garv |
I'm not the only person.
We've played direct, but to say we haven't tried to introduce a better style of play generally i.e on the floor, compared to last year, would be wrong. |
The difference for me between this year and last year is this year we seem to be TRYING to pass it forward from the back via short passes. It hasn't really been successful, resulting in us retreating to long ball either as a Plan B or out of desperation but I feel the endeavour is there.
Last year I didn't think that was our tactic - it was get it up front as quickly as possible and try and turn the defenders around but it rarely worked, particularly in the second half of the season.
I agree our kick offs have been dire of late though; almost as though we're playing a territory game from kick off rather than a possession based one. | |
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