| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? 06:36 - Oct 10 with 6487 views | Currie10 |
Lets wind back the clock for a second. It's late 2007. Jim's got a side dismantling every side known to man in this league at home, with a Dennis Bergkamp aversion to travel.
Evans is on his way, with the ££££ - Premier league will surely be on it's way shortly?
Fast forward to 2018, and the most we've had to sing about is one play off campaign, and a cup semi final - where we were 30 minutes or so from Wembley!
Evans clearly backed Jim, Keane and Jewell very well at that time.
However with Mick, perhaps with his fingers burnt, and our annual losses spiraling - Evans changed tact. Can anyone really blame him?
He gets the usual tax accusations, not putting £££ in, however we lose £6-8 million or so every season still - who props us up?
Are wages etc free?
Sure, I'd like us to spend more on transfer fees however there was a good solid four years of spend when we didn't take advantage of this.
If Evans hadn't come in late 2007, and no one else had, I absolutely have no doubt in my mind we'd have been relegated by now.
Lets give him a little bit more credit than we do and be somewhat grateful that someone IS helping us!? [Post edited 10 Oct 2018 6:37]
|  | | |  |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 06:46 - Oct 10 with 4130 views | Benters2 |
I was there at Norwich jumping about going nuts money in the air 'were fkn loaded' etc...
I just wish we had really gone for it in Jan 2015 was that Evans fault or Mick Macs?
Great he pumps in £6m? a year,but we do seem to have a good return on some of our players.
I cant help thinking we do everything on the cheap and Evans is bored.
I know buy the club etc..buy a season ticket and help etc.. |  | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:37 - Oct 10 with 4060 views | Steve_M |
There's never been a plan from Evans though, nothing beyond hoping the first team manager can out-perform the budget. We blew a competitive advantage in the first couple of years Evans owned the club and have stumbled along ever since, McCarthy dragging us to the survival and the play-offs being very much the exceptions.
The so called five point plan is a quickly scrawled list of some nice aspirations, pushed out when he felt it necessary to placate the fans and the much fabled 'interview' was a load of blandishments to the in-house PR team. It might be considered a start but it didn't tell us very much.
Even when Evans appointed an up and coming manager, there was clearly no structure and governance around what Hurst was allowed to do which was why we've ended up ripping up a stable mid-table squad and gambling on a load of lower division players who may or may not make the step up to this level. We have a bottom third budget, once we stop out-performing that we end up close to the bottom of the table.
On top of that, the club gives the impression of running every thing but the first-team squad on the cheap: look at the state of the ground - the North stand roof, the Churchmans shrubbery, peeling paint - or the inability to run bars to cope with unusual activities like fans wanting a beer or food at half-time.
It doesn't have to just be about spending money. I'm getting bored of typing this but Brentford have consistently played better football than us, finished higher than us and sold players for far more than we do on a smaller budget. Part of that might be down to scrapping their academy but they have a proper plan and are working to it.
Evans never has had one beyond trying to get promoted quickly and now he's stuck with a club and a debt he doesn't seem to want, just waiting for someone to pay him £30m for it. |  |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:37 - Oct 10 with 4051 views | Steve_M |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 06:46 - Oct 10 by Benters2 |
I was there at Norwich jumping about going nuts money in the air 'were fkn loaded' etc...
I just wish we had really gone for it in Jan 2015 was that Evans fault or Mick Macs?
Great he pumps in £6m? a year,but we do seem to have a good return on some of our players.
I cant help thinking we do everything on the cheap and Evans is bored.
I know buy the club etc..buy a season ticket and help etc.. |
Yes, that wasn't a good look at the time, let alone with the benefit of hindsight. | |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:41 - Oct 10 with 4033 views | Benters2 |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:37 - Oct 10 by Steve_M |
Yes, that wasn't a good look at the time, let alone with the benefit of hindsight. |
Funny though.
Bantz. | | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:46 - Oct 10 with 4028 views | jeera |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:37 - Oct 10 by Steve_M |
There's never been a plan from Evans though, nothing beyond hoping the first team manager can out-perform the budget. We blew a competitive advantage in the first couple of years Evans owned the club and have stumbled along ever since, McCarthy dragging us to the survival and the play-offs being very much the exceptions.
The so called five point plan is a quickly scrawled list of some nice aspirations, pushed out when he felt it necessary to placate the fans and the much fabled 'interview' was a load of blandishments to the in-house PR team. It might be considered a start but it didn't tell us very much.
Even when Evans appointed an up and coming manager, there was clearly no structure and governance around what Hurst was allowed to do which was why we've ended up ripping up a stable mid-table squad and gambling on a load of lower division players who may or may not make the step up to this level. We have a bottom third budget, once we stop out-performing that we end up close to the bottom of the table.
On top of that, the club gives the impression of running every thing but the first-team squad on the cheap: look at the state of the ground - the North stand roof, the Churchmans shrubbery, peeling paint - or the inability to run bars to cope with unusual activities like fans wanting a beer or food at half-time.
It doesn't have to just be about spending money. I'm getting bored of typing this but Brentford have consistently played better football than us, finished higher than us and sold players for far more than we do on a smaller budget. Part of that might be down to scrapping their academy but they have a proper plan and are working to it.
Evans never has had one beyond trying to get promoted quickly and now he's stuck with a club and a debt he doesn't seem to want, just waiting for someone to pay him £30m for it. |
You and/or one or two of the others who are good with words and have a decent grasp of all things Town should pen an article cum open letter to the Club.
It's madness how a hospitality corporation runs the place so poorly. |  |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:09 - Oct 10 with 3966 views | tabletopjoe |
So how has turning into a potential top division side into a 3rd division side helping us exactly? What makes you think we would be relegated without him, surely unbelievable at the time? |  |
| 'Let the ignorant argue with themselves' -- CL |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:25 - Oct 10 with 3936 views | davblue |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:09 - Oct 10 by tabletopjoe |
So how has turning into a potential top division side into a 3rd division side helping us exactly? What makes you think we would be relegated without him, surely unbelievable at the time? |
TBF i think we would if Evans hadn't taken over.
The club was run without investment before Evans and we wouldn't have been able to compete at all. |  | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:26 - Oct 10 with 3937 views | braveblue |
Yawn. The old £6 and now £8 m a year nonsense. Take off interest, depreciation and tax benefits and you will get a proper number. Since Keane left how much profit gave we made on players sales?
Plus, at the end of the day, he has made some awful decisions re management and ticket prices. Purely down to him. Absolutely useless. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:28 - Oct 10 with 3921 views | tabletopjoe |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:25 - Oct 10 by davblue |
TBF i think we would if Evans hadn't taken over.
The club was run without investment before Evans and we wouldn't have been able to compete at all. |
So what makes you think someone else wouldn’t have invested? We were an attractive proposition before Evans ruined us, hence why he bought in the first place | |
| 'Let the ignorant argue with themselves' -- CL |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:30 - Oct 10 with 3915 views | jeera |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:26 - Oct 10 by braveblue |
Yawn. The old £6 and now £8 m a year nonsense. Take off interest, depreciation and tax benefits and you will get a proper number. Since Keane left how much profit gave we made on players sales?
Plus, at the end of the day, he has made some awful decisions re management and ticket prices. Purely down to him. Absolutely useless. |
I'm sure everyone is looking forward to a low down on the 'proper numbers'. | |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:33 - Oct 10 with 3906 views | Slambo |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:37 - Oct 10 by Steve_M |
There's never been a plan from Evans though, nothing beyond hoping the first team manager can out-perform the budget. We blew a competitive advantage in the first couple of years Evans owned the club and have stumbled along ever since, McCarthy dragging us to the survival and the play-offs being very much the exceptions.
The so called five point plan is a quickly scrawled list of some nice aspirations, pushed out when he felt it necessary to placate the fans and the much fabled 'interview' was a load of blandishments to the in-house PR team. It might be considered a start but it didn't tell us very much.
Even when Evans appointed an up and coming manager, there was clearly no structure and governance around what Hurst was allowed to do which was why we've ended up ripping up a stable mid-table squad and gambling on a load of lower division players who may or may not make the step up to this level. We have a bottom third budget, once we stop out-performing that we end up close to the bottom of the table.
On top of that, the club gives the impression of running every thing but the first-team squad on the cheap: look at the state of the ground - the North stand roof, the Churchmans shrubbery, peeling paint - or the inability to run bars to cope with unusual activities like fans wanting a beer or food at half-time.
It doesn't have to just be about spending money. I'm getting bored of typing this but Brentford have consistently played better football than us, finished higher than us and sold players for far more than we do on a smaller budget. Part of that might be down to scrapping their academy but they have a proper plan and are working to it.
Evans never has had one beyond trying to get promoted quickly and now he's stuck with a club and a debt he doesn't seem to want, just waiting for someone to pay him £30m for it. |
This is probably the most accurate and succinct analysis of the Evans regime i've read. Spot on mate! |  |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:34 - Oct 10 with 3903 views | davblue |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:28 - Oct 10 by tabletopjoe |
So what makes you think someone else wouldn’t have invested? We were an attractive proposition before Evans ruined us, hence why he bought in the first place |
The question was would we be relegated without his investment yes we would have.
Im not sure we are as attractive as you state at that time, what was our debt £36 million?
Remember there was really only 1 big investor in Abramovich at that time and there's more money come into the game in the last 5 years.
The game has moved from then and even more so, Evans doesn't have the money to invest at that level. | | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:37 - Oct 10 with 3887 views | davblue |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:30 - Oct 10 by jeera |
I'm sure everyone is looking forward to a low down on the 'proper numbers'. |
He used to be his accountant, so he's good with numbers. | | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:39 - Oct 10 with 3883 views | Dennyx4 |
I think most fans just want to have optimism, and a chance of success. Initially we had that, but does feel like it had gone stale the last few years.
I can understand the wage bill increasing if we are picking up quality players on free transfers (Mcgoldrick, Berra, Hunt etc)
As a club we need to do better at creating revenue outside of player sales, could we price tickets for individual games lower, could we do packages for families - I am no expert, but am sure we could do more.
I am grateful that Evans puts in his contribution each season, but everyone knows it is not enough, and we now seem to be stuck. Evans continuing to contribute not enough or wanting too much for the club in its current state to sell to someone that may be able to provide more funds. |  | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:42 - Oct 10 with 3880 views | TractorWood |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:30 - Oct 10 by jeera |
I'm sure everyone is looking forward to a low down on the 'proper numbers'. |
Here was my take on it when the last accounts were filed:
Update as our accounts were filed last week by TractorWood 17 Mar 2018 11:48Not really anything seismic in the accounts. Evans via a multitude of group entities is owed circa £90m (including some preference shares that are classified as debt - that I'd think he would want). We made a loss for the financial year to 30/06/17 of £4.3m, which is broadly what I and probably most people expected.
We all know the biggest KPI is league attendance and for the period it does state quite a drop from essentially 19k to 17k as comparative period is 15/16 where we were in the playoff mix and probably had a much better feel around the place. There's a little Brexit reference in the principal risks and uncertainties but I'd assume KPMG recommended this as it seems a bit arbitrary.
The wage bill is up from £16.6m to £17.8m, still broadly chicken feed for this division. I'd imagine pension costs will go up next year as auto enrollment to pensions takes full hold of the admin staff but would struggle to see it being over £18.75m. We have a liability to pay someone £260k if some performance criteria is triggered, I assume it's Garner or Waghorn related as it wasn't present last year. Other than that, the accounts are pretty uninteresting including the related party notes that can have some unexpected, juicy items in them.
For completeness and for reference by everyone, our average consolidated loss over the last 4 years is £3.2m:
30/06/14 - £7.3m loss
30/06/15 - £5.5m profit
30/06/16 - £6.6m loss
30/06/17 - £4.3m loss
Interestingly if you extend this to 30/06/13 when we lost £9.8m, this creeps the average loss up to £4.5m per year which is probably less than I'd expect.
|  |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:45 - Oct 10 with 3863 views | RegencyBlue |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:37 - Oct 10 by Steve_M |
There's never been a plan from Evans though, nothing beyond hoping the first team manager can out-perform the budget. We blew a competitive advantage in the first couple of years Evans owned the club and have stumbled along ever since, McCarthy dragging us to the survival and the play-offs being very much the exceptions.
The so called five point plan is a quickly scrawled list of some nice aspirations, pushed out when he felt it necessary to placate the fans and the much fabled 'interview' was a load of blandishments to the in-house PR team. It might be considered a start but it didn't tell us very much.
Even when Evans appointed an up and coming manager, there was clearly no structure and governance around what Hurst was allowed to do which was why we've ended up ripping up a stable mid-table squad and gambling on a load of lower division players who may or may not make the step up to this level. We have a bottom third budget, once we stop out-performing that we end up close to the bottom of the table.
On top of that, the club gives the impression of running every thing but the first-team squad on the cheap: look at the state of the ground - the North stand roof, the Churchmans shrubbery, peeling paint - or the inability to run bars to cope with unusual activities like fans wanting a beer or food at half-time.
It doesn't have to just be about spending money. I'm getting bored of typing this but Brentford have consistently played better football than us, finished higher than us and sold players for far more than we do on a smaller budget. Part of that might be down to scrapping their academy but they have a proper plan and are working to it.
Evans never has had one beyond trying to get promoted quickly and now he's stuck with a club and a debt he doesn't seem to want, just waiting for someone to pay him £30m for it. |
Absolutely spot on!
The Evans regime is slowly killing this club on and off the pitch.
He is very good at dodging the flack which should come his way though. I guess Ipswich fans have been so ground down by the last decade we don’t expect much from the club anymore. |  | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:17 - Oct 10 with 3757 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:46 - Oct 10 by jeera |
You and/or one or two of the others who are good with words and have a decent grasp of all things Town should pen an article cum open letter to the Club.
It's madness how a hospitality corporation runs the place so poorly. |
There are an awful of conglomerate type companies out there buying businesses going down the pan and turning them around into very valuable assets
I work within the electrical / construction industry for Siemens ...Siemens are a prime example or purchasing failing business and turning them around
My point being there WILL be someone to take the club forward but does Evans really want to sell ?
My answer would be no.....I don't care what anyone says he does not lose £6-8m a year |  |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:17 - Oct 10 with 3757 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 07:37 - Oct 10 by Steve_M |
There's never been a plan from Evans though, nothing beyond hoping the first team manager can out-perform the budget. We blew a competitive advantage in the first couple of years Evans owned the club and have stumbled along ever since, McCarthy dragging us to the survival and the play-offs being very much the exceptions.
The so called five point plan is a quickly scrawled list of some nice aspirations, pushed out when he felt it necessary to placate the fans and the much fabled 'interview' was a load of blandishments to the in-house PR team. It might be considered a start but it didn't tell us very much.
Even when Evans appointed an up and coming manager, there was clearly no structure and governance around what Hurst was allowed to do which was why we've ended up ripping up a stable mid-table squad and gambling on a load of lower division players who may or may not make the step up to this level. We have a bottom third budget, once we stop out-performing that we end up close to the bottom of the table.
On top of that, the club gives the impression of running every thing but the first-team squad on the cheap: look at the state of the ground - the North stand roof, the Churchmans shrubbery, peeling paint - or the inability to run bars to cope with unusual activities like fans wanting a beer or food at half-time.
It doesn't have to just be about spending money. I'm getting bored of typing this but Brentford have consistently played better football than us, finished higher than us and sold players for far more than we do on a smaller budget. Part of that might be down to scrapping their academy but they have a proper plan and are working to it.
Evans never has had one beyond trying to get promoted quickly and now he's stuck with a club and a debt he doesn't seem to want, just waiting for someone to pay him £30m for it. |
Bang on the money, Steve. Totally agree about Brentford's model as well, even more impressive that they don't loan any players in either. |  |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:19 - Oct 10 with 3752 views | agentp |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:45 - Oct 10 by RegencyBlue |
Absolutely spot on!
The Evans regime is slowly killing this club on and off the pitch.
He is very good at dodging the flack which should come his way though. I guess Ipswich fans have been so ground down by the last decade we don’t expect much from the club anymore. |
ME puts in enough to keep us at the level we are until a suitable buyer comes forward; okay that is at risk right now. He has said he will sell the club if a buyer does come forward, so it really is quite simple. | |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:21 - Oct 10 with 3739 views | davblue |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:17 - Oct 10 by Kieran_Knows |
Bang on the money, Steve. Totally agree about Brentford's model as well, even more impressive that they don't loan any players in either. |
Whilst Brentford are a template and they are punching above their weight they haven't done anything by the same token, i.e playoffs since we both got there. | | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:23 - Oct 10 with 3734 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:21 - Oct 10 by davblue |
Whilst Brentford are a template and they are punching above their weight they haven't done anything by the same token, i.e playoffs since we both got there. |
True, I don't deny they haven't really done anything of note in this division, but they seem to have this 'model' and it works on the whole. I'd be a lot happier if we were following some sort of model like they are, than us trying to muddle through each season and hope we punch above our weight. | |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:49 - Oct 10 with 3682 views | Guthrum |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 08:26 - Oct 10 by braveblue |
Yawn. The old £6 and now £8 m a year nonsense. Take off interest, depreciation and tax benefits and you will get a proper number. Since Keane left how much profit gave we made on players sales?
Plus, at the end of the day, he has made some awful decisions re management and ticket prices. Purely down to him. Absolutely useless. |
Losses were running at more like £15m per season to start off with.
When you take out 'interest, depreciation and tax benefits', a £6m figure is reduced to something over £4.5m - still a lot of money every year. The club has made a profit/broken even in about three seasons out of ten since Evans took over. |  |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 10:00 - Oct 10 with 3651 views | Guthrum |
There are better Owners and there are far worse.
Evans does keep the club afloat, albeit not putting in the massive transfer funds which some crave. Also he does not interfere in the day-to-day running of the football team. Nor are we regularly embarassed by ravings on TV/social media. Legal issues have been pretty limited. And he does actually exist (c.f. Portsmouth some years ago).
However, he has not been able to sustain spending in line with inflation within the Championship as a whole. We have undoubtedly gone backwards in relation to many of our peers. Some of Evans' managerial selections and supervision of the incumbents have been questionable. His attempt to 'try something new' with Hurst is still very much in the balance. | |
| |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 10:20 - Oct 10 with 3615 views | davblue |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 09:23 - Oct 10 by Kieran_Knows |
True, I don't deny they haven't really done anything of note in this division, but they seem to have this 'model' and it works on the whole. I'd be a lot happier if we were following some sort of model like they are, than us trying to muddle through each season and hope we punch above our weight. |
yeah 100%.
It might take some time from them to build up cash reserves etc to improve every part of the club and they have done better than us also. It's a club on the up. | | | |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 10:24 - Oct 10 with 3610 views | davblue |
| Evans stick warranted...... or misguided? on 10:00 - Oct 10 by Guthrum |
There are better Owners and there are far worse.
Evans does keep the club afloat, albeit not putting in the massive transfer funds which some crave. Also he does not interfere in the day-to-day running of the football team. Nor are we regularly embarassed by ravings on TV/social media. Legal issues have been pretty limited. And he does actually exist (c.f. Portsmouth some years ago).
However, he has not been able to sustain spending in line with inflation within the Championship as a whole. We have undoubtedly gone backwards in relation to many of our peers. Some of Evans' managerial selections and supervision of the incumbents have been questionable. His attempt to 'try something new' with Hurst is still very much in the balance. |
1 good appointment out of 4 so far (Hurst still has a massive question mark)
I personally wouldn't criticise him for his investment, it's up to him what he invests, the game has moved on significantly in the championship.
I do think we are still heading for league 1 at some point either this season or in the future, nothing that Evans does fills me with confidence to be honest, it's almost scatter gun. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
