| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria 09:57 - Oct 16 with 7674 views | StokieBlue |
I think last time we had a thread on the forum with regards to chemical attacks in Syria there were quite a few people who dismissed the various findings and insisted Assad would not gain from it and that it was a false flag attack.
Panorama have now completed a detailed report on chemical attacks in Syria and have concluded there have been 106 attacks between 2014-2018, of which at least 51 were launched from the air which rules out rebel fighters. 3 were determined to have been launched by IS but as of yet the JIM, OPCW and the BBC haven't found evidence of any other rebel groups conducting attacks.
There is an interesting timeline around the Douma attacks and how chemical weapons were used to strategically drive the opposition out of areas allowing conventional forces to move in. A few people said this would never happen strategically as Assad wouldn't gain from it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45586903
I fully understand that people who don't trust the JIM or OPCW reports are highly unlikely to trust a BBC investigation so it won't stop people stating attacks as false flags but there is a lot of information and it's an interesting read.
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 9:58]
|  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |  |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:09 - Oct 16 with 3950 views | caught-in-limbo |
Today's BBC message via last night's Panorama.
Stay calm
and
help ISIS / al Qaida
destroy Syria
like we helped al Qaida / LIFG destroy Libya
Note to Stokie: You're right, many us us will and should remain sceptical. We've been here with Iraq before. |  |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:20 - Oct 16 with 3927 views | hampstead_blue |
What worries me is that this is Putin growing in strength.
I doubt Assad would have the balls to do it on his own. With Putin by his side he's got some serious 'top cover'.
The worry is that I can't see what the civilised world is doing about it?
Putin is pishing all over the international rules of law and we just sit there. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:32 - Oct 16 with 3910 views | StokieBlue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:09 - Oct 16 by caught-in-limbo |
Today's BBC message via last night's Panorama.
Stay calm
and
help ISIS / al Qaida
destroy Syria
like we helped al Qaida / LIFG destroy Libya
Note to Stokie: You're right, many us us will and should remain sceptical. We've been here with Iraq before. |
What did the BBC have to do with Iraq? What did JIM or OPCW have to do with Iraq?
It's a non-sequitur argument to disqualify a new report based on an unrelated previous report.
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 10:45]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:51 - Oct 16 with 3883 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:20 - Oct 16 by hampstead_blue |
What worries me is that this is Putin growing in strength.
I doubt Assad would have the balls to do it on his own. With Putin by his side he's got some serious 'top cover'.
The worry is that I can't see what the civilised world is doing about it?
Putin is pishing all over the international rules of law and we just sit there. |
Perhaps, just perhaps our support of Saudi Arabian jihadist groups across North Africa and the ME is uncivilised and other parts of the world who can see this are more civilised than you give them credit for. | |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:55 - Oct 16 with 3874 views | StokieBlue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:51 - Oct 16 by caught-in-limbo |
Perhaps, just perhaps our support of Saudi Arabian jihadist groups across North Africa and the ME is uncivilised and other parts of the world who can see this are more civilised than you give them credit for. |
Edit: Apologies - I thought you replied to me - brain not fully functioning it seems.
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 10:55]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:56 - Oct 16 with 3867 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:32 - Oct 16 by StokieBlue |
What did the BBC have to do with Iraq? What did JIM or OPCW have to do with Iraq?
It's a non-sequitur argument to disqualify a new report based on an unrelated previous report.
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 10:45]
|
the BBC is as untrusted and propaganda peddling in the eyes of much of the world as Russian and Chinese state media bodies are through western eyes. Your second question is as irrelevant/non-sequitur/straw-man as it could possibly be. | |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:58 - Oct 16 with 3862 views | No9 |
The seriousness of this, for us, is about the way the Uk allowed chemicals to be sold into the area with no controls
This was reported in 2017 but it seems the governemtn did nothng to change that.
Peddling weapons and manpower into Saudi has not made thing better & the Yemen disaster is a war undereported in the UK media.
The former UK ambassador to Syria has accused the Foreign Office of telling porkies
Can we believe anything? |  | | |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:00 - Oct 16 with 3858 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:55 - Oct 16 by StokieBlue |
Edit: Apologies - I thought you replied to me - brain not fully functioning it seems.
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 10:55]
|
You are forgiven as always. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:07 - Oct 16 with 3846 views | StokieBlue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:56 - Oct 16 by caught-in-limbo |
the BBC is as untrusted and propaganda peddling in the eyes of much of the world as Russian and Chinese state media bodies are through western eyes. Your second question is as irrelevant/non-sequitur/straw-man as it could possibly be. |
It's not a non-sequitur or a strawman.
A historical government report not written by the BBC has no relevance to a contemporary report written by the BBC.
It's just you not taking things on their individual merit and using your bias to dismiss them. Something I'm sure you'd criticise other people for doing.
To compare the BBC to the Chinese state media is ridiculous in the extreme.
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 11:08]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:09 - Oct 16 with 3840 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
No time to read the details now.........but it would appear that from Syria to Israel, Saudi to Turkey, America to Russia, Iran to Nicaragua, Brazil to Venezuala etc, etc...we allow ourselves to be led by unaccountable , sociopathic, disingenuous, corrupt elites.......if only there was something like @narcho syndicalism to provide more directly accountable options based on shared humanity rather than cock waving strategic competitive agendas. All thoroughly depressing ! |  |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:23 - Oct 16 with 3820 views | Bluesquid |
Ahh, the BBC.
What do you think Stokie?
Real victims of an incendiary weapons attack?
| | | |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:29 - Oct 16 with 3804 views | jjblue84 |
A very important disclaimer from the Beeb...
‘The BBC team were not allowed access to film on the ground in Syria and could not visit the scenes of reported incidents, and therefore were not able to categorically verify the evidence.’
Doesn’t that make all this literally, a second-rate report??? |  | | |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:35 - Oct 16 with 3793 views | StokieBlue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:23 - Oct 16 by Bluesquid |
Ahh, the BBC.
What do you think Stokie?
Real victims of an incendiary weapons attack?
|
I posted a report which I thought was worth highlighting.
I've not discussed individual incidents (I can't see that footage at the moment). Once again, how would one thing make the other 100 instances incorrect? How do you square the fact at least 50 were likely launched from the air?
Who did it? Could only be Assad, the Russians or the US in those instances.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:39 - Oct 16 with 3791 views | StokieBlue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:29 - Oct 16 by jjblue84 |
A very important disclaimer from the Beeb...
‘The BBC team were not allowed access to film on the ground in Syria and could not visit the scenes of reported incidents, and therefore were not able to categorically verify the evidence.’
Doesn’t that make all this literally, a second-rate report??? |
I think you need to include the whole disclaimer if you are going to do that:
"The BBC team considered 164 reports of chemical attacks from September 2013 onwards.
The reports were from a variety of sources considered broadly impartial and not involved in the fighting. They included international bodies, human rights groups, medical organisations and think tanks.
In line with investigations carried out by the UN and the OPCW, BBC researchers, with the help of several independent analysts, reviewed the open source data available for each of the reported attacks, including victim and witness testimonies, photographs and videos.
The BBC team had their methodology checked by specialist researchers and experts.
The BBC researchers discounted all incidents where there was only one source, or where they concluded there was not sufficient evidence. In all, they determined there was enough credible evidence to be confident a chemical weapon was used in 106 incidents.
The BBC team were not allowed access to film on the ground in Syria and could not visit the scenes of reported incidents, and therefore were not able to categorically verify the evidence.
However, they did weigh up the strength of the available evidence in each case, including the video footage and pictures from each incident, as well as the details of location and timing."
Seems a fair approach which avoids cherry-picking. What option do they have when Assad won't give them access?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:41 - Oct 16 with 3783 views | Bluesquid |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:35 - Oct 16 by StokieBlue |
I posted a report which I thought was worth highlighting.
I've not discussed individual incidents (I can't see that footage at the moment). Once again, how would one thing make the other 100 instances incorrect? How do you square the fact at least 50 were likely launched from the air?
Who did it? Could only be Assad, the Russians or the US in those instances.
SB |
I look forward to reading your reply on whether you think that these are real victims of an incendiary weapons attack when you have viewed the footage.
"Once again, how would one thing make the other 100 instances incorrect? How do you square the fact at least 50 were likely launched from the air?
Who did it? Could only be Assad,"
As i said, i look forward to your reply.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 12:49]
| | | |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:44 - Oct 16 with 3779 views | StokieBlue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:41 - Oct 16 by Bluesquid |
I look forward to reading your reply on whether you think that these are real victims of an incendiary weapons attack when you have viewed the footage.
"Once again, how would one thing make the other 100 instances incorrect? How do you square the fact at least 50 were likely launched from the air?
Who did it? Could only be Assad,"
As i said, i look forward to your reply.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 12:49]
|
So rather than answering the question you just want me to view a single instance of some footage and then disregard and entire report on 100+ incidents based on that.
Seems a fair and reasoned approach.
If you don't believe the BBC what issues do you have with the JIM and OPCW? Do you believe the scoreline the BBC reported for last nights England match?
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 11:45]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:53 - Oct 16 with 3758 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 10:58 - Oct 16 by No9 |
The seriousness of this, for us, is about the way the Uk allowed chemicals to be sold into the area with no controls
This was reported in 2017 but it seems the governemtn did nothng to change that.
Peddling weapons and manpower into Saudi has not made thing better & the Yemen disaster is a war undereported in the UK media.
The former UK ambassador to Syria has accused the Foreign Office of telling porkies
Can we believe anything? |
Yes, I think you can believe Peter Ford, and among other things he's got a lot to lose and very little to gain from voicing his views. | |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:54 - Oct 16 with 3756 views | Bluesquid |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:44 - Oct 16 by StokieBlue |
So rather than answering the question you just want me to view a single instance of some footage and then disregard and entire report on 100+ incidents based on that.
Seems a fair and reasoned approach.
If you don't believe the BBC what issues do you have with the JIM and OPCW? Do you believe the scoreline the BBC reported for last nights England match?
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 11:45]
|
Single instance of some footage that was used on a BBC news report which was broadcast worldwide as propaganda to frame another country's goverment. No big deal really.
JIM and OPCW members may have been threatened. [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 12:42]
| | | |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:00 - Oct 16 with 3749 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:29 - Oct 16 by jjblue84 |
A very important disclaimer from the Beeb...
‘The BBC team were not allowed access to film on the ground in Syria and could not visit the scenes of reported incidents, and therefore were not able to categorically verify the evidence.’
Doesn’t that make all this literally, a second-rate report??? |
Yeah but, yeah but, BBC, yeah Dimbleby, yeah but, Terry Wogan, yeah, 95 years, checks and balances, charters, David Frost, broadcasting excellence, Kate Adie, Alan Titchmarsh, but yeah, Andrew Marr, spaghetti trees and flying penguins, Paxman and equally accused of impartiality by left and right and Tony Hart and Gary Glitter, Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile. | |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:09 - Oct 16 with 3726 views | lowhouseblue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:00 - Oct 16 by caught-in-limbo |
Yeah but, yeah but, BBC, yeah Dimbleby, yeah but, Terry Wogan, yeah, 95 years, checks and balances, charters, David Frost, broadcasting excellence, Kate Adie, Alan Titchmarsh, but yeah, Andrew Marr, spaghetti trees and flying penguins, Paxman and equally accused of impartiality by left and right and Tony Hart and Gary Glitter, Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile. |
hold on a minute, what are you doing mixing tony hart in with those bad'uns. do you have no shame? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:14 - Oct 16 with 3711 views | StokieBlue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:54 - Oct 16 by Bluesquid |
Single instance of some footage that was used on a BBC news report which was broadcast worldwide as propaganda to frame another country's goverment. No big deal really.
JIM and OPCW members may have been threatened. [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 12:42]
|
"JIM and OPCW members may have been threatened."
Based on what and by whom?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:26 - Oct 16 with 3679 views | Rob88 |
I'm not sure why people think that this is beyond the capability and/or will of the Syrian government.
They are an utterly atrocious and vindictive regime that need to subdue their people to hold onto their power, freedom and wealth.
There is a very good three part documentary on BBC 2 at the moment on the Syrian dynasty, the 2nd episode is tonight I believe. | | | |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:36 - Oct 16 with 3655 views | Bluesquid |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:14 - Oct 16 by StokieBlue |
"JIM and OPCW members may have been threatened."
Based on what and by whom?
SB |
"We know where your kids live"
José Bustani, The director general of the OPCW back in 2002 stated that the then under secretary of State and one of the architects of the slaughter in Iraq John Bolton said the following to him -
""We can't accept your management style,"
"You have 24 hours to leave the organization, and if you don't comply with this decision by Washington, we have ways to retaliate against you,"
After a pause, Bolton reportedly said,
"We know where your kids live. You have two sons in New York."
https://theintercept.com/2018/03/29/john-bolton-trump-bush-bustani-kids-opcw/
These are serious allegation's and i have not read anywhere of any public statement or legal action to deny this from Bolton who is now Trumps national security adviser. [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 12:40]
| | | |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:57 - Oct 16 with 3608 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 11:23 - Oct 16 by Bluesquid |
Ahh, the BBC.
What do you think Stokie?
Real victims of an incendiary weapons attack?
|
I like how people 'prove' that one organisation is staging filming by use of an unattributable video off YouTube. I assume the irony has been missed somewhere? |  |
| |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 13:03 - Oct 16 with 3594 views | StokieBlue |
| Detailed Panorama report into chemical attacks in Syria on 12:36 - Oct 16 by Bluesquid |
"We know where your kids live"
José Bustani, The director general of the OPCW back in 2002 stated that the then under secretary of State and one of the architects of the slaughter in Iraq John Bolton said the following to him -
""We can't accept your management style,"
"You have 24 hours to leave the organization, and if you don't comply with this decision by Washington, we have ways to retaliate against you,"
After a pause, Bolton reportedly said,
"We know where your kids live. You have two sons in New York."
https://theintercept.com/2018/03/29/john-bolton-trump-bush-bustani-kids-opcw/
These are serious allegation's and i have not read anywhere of any public statement or legal action to deny this from Bolton who is now Trumps national security adviser. [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 12:40]
|
The word of one person, unverified, more than 15 years ago.
You're using that as a source to claim possible threats now which mean that the reports are biased?
And you're calling the BBC impartial?
SB [Post edited 16 Oct 2018 13:04]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
