20:36 - Oct 29 with 4486 views | _ | | | | | |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 20:52 - Oct 29 with 4388 views | Superblue95 | I also love the Simpsons but Apu and every other character on the show should have been written out 10 years ago instead of dragging the show through a slow painful decade long death | |
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on 20:54 - Oct 29 with 4371 views | _ |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 20:52 - Oct 29 by Superblue95 | I also love the Simpsons but Apu and every other character on the show should have been written out 10 years ago instead of dragging the show through a slow painful decade long death |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 20:55 - Oct 29 with 4366 views | BryanPlug | [content removed at owner's request] | |
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on 20:56 - Oct 29 with 4347 views | _ |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 20:55 - Oct 29 by BryanPlug | [content removed at owner's request] |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 20:59 - Oct 29 with 4325 views | BryanPlug |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 21:09 - Oct 29 with 4283 views | LankHenners |
Kondabolu has since said he didn't want this to be the solution (not that that seems confirmed anyway) but from the suggestion that he could be written out of the show he's received a lot of abuse, some of it racially aggravated:
I'm not sure that the link between Kondabolu's argument and the vile abuse is as strong as the above tweet says it is but it does show that the level of nuance in this whole thing goes way over the head of a lot of people who watch the show or have an opinion on it. I've only just watched the first 5 minutes of the doc you linked (will try and get through the rest of it tomorrow) but I agree that Apu is a much more rounded written character than is being suggested by Kondabolu. The guy in the vid also makes much much much better use of the 'but there are other stereotypes in The Simpsons' argument that is usually used by straight white guys who haven't had to deal with any kind of prejudice in their life and often wang on about the world being 'too PC' etc. If the argument is that Apu is a negative stereotype, then there are other characters perhaps more 'deserving' of that label. Luigi the chef, for example, runs a Pizzeria and speaks in a 'non-Italian trying to do an over-the-top stereotypical accent' way. Removing Apu himself will not suddenly cure racism or racist stereotypes: for one, he already exists in culture now so idiots can still provocatively do Apu impressions at Indian people if they're that sort of tw@t. I think the most sensible approach, perhaps, would be to make the 'better' characteristics of his character less subtle, although subtlety is/was one of the great strengths of The Simpson's writing (pretty much the point of the show is that behind the stereotypes of all the characters there is so much more heart that rarely gets shown but gives such feeling when it is). At it's best The Simpsons is/was a beautiful creation and Apu plays his part in that, as the doc says, his best qualities are often shown up when compared to the other characters in the show, particularly Homer (Homer of course often performs this role for other characters). The one main contention as far as I see it is that it's a white guy doing the voice, and thus gives an 'ok' for other white people to do an Indian accent which in certain contexts can be offensive, often deliberately so. Last time this came up someone linked an article about this where an ex-writer or producer from the show gave a very frank interview where he said something along the lines of 'when there are a group of white guys in a room doing impressions to try and make people laugh, some accents will just be funnier than others'. Made today, I think it's a shut case that an Indian man would be voicing the character. | |
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on 21:10 - Oct 29 with 4267 views | _ |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 20:59 - Oct 29 by BryanPlug | [content removed at owner's request] |
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on 21:13 - Oct 29 with 4250 views | _ |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 21:09 - Oct 29 by LankHenners |
Kondabolu has since said he didn't want this to be the solution (not that that seems confirmed anyway) but from the suggestion that he could be written out of the show he's received a lot of abuse, some of it racially aggravated:
I'm not sure that the link between Kondabolu's argument and the vile abuse is as strong as the above tweet says it is but it does show that the level of nuance in this whole thing goes way over the head of a lot of people who watch the show or have an opinion on it. I've only just watched the first 5 minutes of the doc you linked (will try and get through the rest of it tomorrow) but I agree that Apu is a much more rounded written character than is being suggested by Kondabolu. The guy in the vid also makes much much much better use of the 'but there are other stereotypes in The Simpsons' argument that is usually used by straight white guys who haven't had to deal with any kind of prejudice in their life and often wang on about the world being 'too PC' etc. If the argument is that Apu is a negative stereotype, then there are other characters perhaps more 'deserving' of that label. Luigi the chef, for example, runs a Pizzeria and speaks in a 'non-Italian trying to do an over-the-top stereotypical accent' way. Removing Apu himself will not suddenly cure racism or racist stereotypes: for one, he already exists in culture now so idiots can still provocatively do Apu impressions at Indian people if they're that sort of tw@t. I think the most sensible approach, perhaps, would be to make the 'better' characteristics of his character less subtle, although subtlety is/was one of the great strengths of The Simpson's writing (pretty much the point of the show is that behind the stereotypes of all the characters there is so much more heart that rarely gets shown but gives such feeling when it is). At it's best The Simpsons is/was a beautiful creation and Apu plays his part in that, as the doc says, his best qualities are often shown up when compared to the other characters in the show, particularly Homer (Homer of course often performs this role for other characters). The one main contention as far as I see it is that it's a white guy doing the voice, and thus gives an 'ok' for other white people to do an Indian accent which in certain contexts can be offensive, often deliberately so. Last time this came up someone linked an article about this where an ex-writer or producer from the show gave a very frank interview where he said something along the lines of 'when there are a group of white guys in a room doing impressions to try and make people laugh, some accents will just be funnier than others'. Made today, I think it's a shut case that an Indian man would be voicing the character. |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 21:49 - Oct 29 with 4154 views | LankHenners |
Yeah started watching it, realised how long it was and stopped to watch the rest when I have more time! Will report back when I've watched it. | |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 22:11 - Oct 29 with 4104 views | Guthrum | Apu is a caricature encapsulating a number of racial/cultural stereotypes. But then so are all the other characters in The Simpsons as well. | |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 22:25 - Oct 29 with 4070 views | J2BLUE |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 20:59 - Oct 29 by BryanPlug | [content removed at owner's request] |
I wonder what will be next. Perhaps Pinocchio should have said i'm a real person until they were old enough to choose how to self identify. | |
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on 22:46 - Oct 29 with 4025 views | _ |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 22:25 - Oct 29 by J2BLUE | I wonder what will be next. Perhaps Pinocchio should have said i'm a real person until they were old enough to choose how to self identify. |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 22:48 - Oct 29 with 4016 views | J2BLUE |
Ha, i'm not serious. The real boy thing just popped into my head for some reason. | |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 22:54 - Oct 29 with 4008 views | brazil1982 | Nish Kumar you say? So unfunny it's painful. The Mash Report makes the Last Leg look like comedy gold. | | | |
on 22:57 - Oct 29 with 3989 views | _ |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 22:54 - Oct 29 by brazil1982 | Nish Kumar you say? So unfunny it's painful. The Mash Report makes the Last Leg look like comedy gold. |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 22:58 - Oct 29 with 3989 views | Ftnfwest | Probably for the best, society doesn’t accept any sort of caricature of non white races. Carl and doctor Hibbert will be next | | | |
on 23:01 - Oct 29 with 3980 views | _ |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 22:58 - Oct 29 by Ftnfwest | Probably for the best, society doesn’t accept any sort of caricature of non white races. Carl and doctor Hibbert will be next |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 23:40 - Oct 29 with 3924 views | caught-in-limbo | Great video, watched it from start to finish. No one on this thread has added much new to the debate - the video really is that complete as far as a defence of Apu is concerned. I'm trying to work out Hari Kondabolu's real motive. Here are a couple I can come up with: a) Kondabolu's parents were from Andhra Pradesh, the southern (Dravidian) state to the north of Tamil Nadu. Apu is assumed to be from Tamil Nadu (also Dravidian) based on dark skin and surname - I can only imagine that Kondabolu finds Apu's voice far too generic Indian. Those Dravidians don't like being mixed up with the more politically dominant Indo-Aryans of India. b) according to wiki, Konabolu is "best known for his comedy on subjects such as race, identity, inequality, and the LGBT community". In other words he's a tool for peddling the silly divisive identity politics which is all the rage at the moment. [Post edited 29 Oct 2018 23:42]
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 06:31 - Oct 30 with 3718 views | Benters2 |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 20:55 - Oct 29 by BryanPlug | [content removed at owner's request] |
I agree with you andi love Apu! Sadly there must be a army of people in this sad world we live in who hunt to find things day after day to be upset and offended by. Its all getting so boring. | | | |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 07:00 - Oct 30 with 3677 views | wkj |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 06:31 - Oct 30 by Benters2 | I agree with you andi love Apu! Sadly there must be a army of people in this sad world we live in who hunt to find things day after day to be upset and offended by. Its all getting so boring. |
You summed the Simpsons up well Benters; Its all getting so boring. | |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 07:42 - Oct 30 with 3618 views | gordon | There were lots of tired, unimaginative stereotypes on the Simpson's when I used to watch it twenty years ago. Are they seriously still making it? | | | |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 07:57 - Oct 30 with 3598 views | BryanPlug |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 07:42 - Oct 30 by gordon | There were lots of tired, unimaginative stereotypes on the Simpson's when I used to watch it twenty years ago. Are they seriously still making it? |
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I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 08:30 - Oct 30 with 3553 views | Benters2 |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 07:57 - Oct 30 by BryanPlug | [content removed at owner's request] |
It still makes me laugh.. Who is next on the hit list? Ned Flanders? What about the Police man Chief Wiggum? | | | |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 12:03 - Oct 30 with 3418 views | J2BLUE |
I love the Simpsons but it's clear all is not well in Springfield currently. on 08:30 - Oct 30 by Benters2 | It still makes me laugh.. Who is next on the hit list? Ned Flanders? What about the Police man Chief Wiggum? |
Lisa hopefully. Long overdue to be killed off. | |
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