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Yes, but I think a bigger issue is the use of resources. For example, someone I know suffered a heart attack on a local golf course recently and two ambulances turned up, two police cars (WHY?) plus a helicopter.
It's a tough balance isn't it, between managing the purse strings to cut the deficit and ultimately work to repaying the debt which currently stands at c. 80% GDP I believe. I would love to see a debt adjusted budget, I'm sure the interest would go a long way to funding much needed public services, so I am strongly of the opinion that it's important that Philip Hammond shows prudence in that respect. Having said that, schools, policing and healthcare are desperately underfunded. You'll never be all things to all of the people, all of the time, but I think the balance is wrong at the moment.
It's never as straight forward as pointing to multinational corporates and demanding more taxes from them. Britain needs to be attractive to foreign investment to create industries and jobs for people, however I think there's opportunity there to generate revenues.
I still find it remarkable that the UK spends £18bn on foreign aid each year, significantly more than the £12.3bn we spend on our police. Not being heartless, but foreign aid relative to our GBP is extortionate and there are very few countries in the world that contribute what we do.
Of course we'll get that net £9bn EU contributions per annum back soon, I look forward to seeing how they're invested...
While actually, it seems that the huge cost of police pensions - which are unfunded schemes & come out of the annual budget - is the real reason for cuts. Police used to retire at 50 on very generous pensions. If they are over a certain age, yes, you don't want them dealing with aggressive villains, but they can easily still fill in the umpteen forms they love using and investigate on-line hate crimes. There are also a huge number of police who retire early on health grounds. Again, I'm sure they could fulfil some of the many non-physical police functions.
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:26 - Oct 31 by footers
Theresa May continuing her brilliant relationship with the police from her time as Home Sec. Unsurprising...
From 2015
Mrs May was a complete disaster as Home Sec. Not only did immigration increase dramatically, border guards were reduced as were the police. fire brigade etc.
Now as all crime is incresing dramatically, it really is quite scary to hear from police chiefs they can't cope and the Home Secretary does little or nothing.
As I have posted on this forum before, I have been concerend about policing because in rural areas policing is just about non existent what makes it worse is unless it is a big crime e.g. a farmer losing a very expensive bit of kit or a herd of animals it does not get reported.
I have not sat back & done nothing I have spoken with the police who lay out a very bleak scenario
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Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:48 - Oct 31 with 2641 views
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:37 - Oct 31 by clive_baker
It's a tough balance isn't it, between managing the purse strings to cut the deficit and ultimately work to repaying the debt which currently stands at c. 80% GDP I believe. I would love to see a debt adjusted budget, I'm sure the interest would go a long way to funding much needed public services, so I am strongly of the opinion that it's important that Philip Hammond shows prudence in that respect. Having said that, schools, policing and healthcare are desperately underfunded. You'll never be all things to all of the people, all of the time, but I think the balance is wrong at the moment.
It's never as straight forward as pointing to multinational corporates and demanding more taxes from them. Britain needs to be attractive to foreign investment to create industries and jobs for people, however I think there's opportunity there to generate revenues.
I still find it remarkable that the UK spends £18bn on foreign aid each year, significantly more than the £12.3bn we spend on our police. Not being heartless, but foreign aid relative to our GBP is extortionate and there are very few countries in the world that contribute what we do.
Of course we'll get that net £9bn EU contributions per annum back soon, I look forward to seeing how they're invested...
Some of that foreign aid goes to keepinng countries stable which might otherwise contribute to an increased need for defence, police and Border Force spending.
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:48 - Oct 31 by Guthrum
Some of that foreign aid goes to keepinng countries stable which might otherwise contribute to an increased need for defence, police and Border Force spending.
Which is oft forgotten.
Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:48 - Oct 31 by No9
Mrs May was a complete disaster as Home Sec. Not only did immigration increase dramatically, border guards were reduced as were the police. fire brigade etc.
Now as all crime is incresing dramatically, it really is quite scary to hear from police chiefs they can't cope and the Home Secretary does little or nothing.
As I have posted on this forum before, I have been concerend about policing because in rural areas policing is just about non existent what makes it worse is unless it is a big crime e.g. a farmer losing a very expensive bit of kit or a herd of animals it does not get reported.
I have not sat back & done nothing I have spoken with the police who lay out a very bleak scenario
May is one of the few to move on from being Home Sec....it's typically a position MPs go to die....that position eats them.
Only a few have gone on from there to become PM.....make of that what you will.
Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:50 - Oct 31 by homer_123
Which is oft forgotten.
It is forgotten where it goes Do we really beed to give aid to India when it has it's own space programme - something the UK doesn't have? And where government has sent aid have the effects been overall positive?
I am not saying there should be no aid but I do beleive it needs to be re-aligned to those who need it and that it needs to be monitored and assessed for effectiveness.
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Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:56 - Oct 31 with 2607 views
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:42 - Oct 31 by Radlett_blue
While actually, it seems that the huge cost of police pensions - which are unfunded schemes & come out of the annual budget - is the real reason for cuts. Police used to retire at 50 on very generous pensions. If they are over a certain age, yes, you don't want them dealing with aggressive villains, but they can easily still fill in the umpteen forms they love using and investigate on-line hate crimes. There are also a huge number of police who retire early on health grounds. Again, I'm sure they could fulfil some of the many non-physical police functions.
A copper I know joined at 21, did 30 years in the transport police and retired just last year on a pension of 25k for life and a lump sum of 150k. Probably going to live another 30 years at least. I am not saying this is bad or undeserved, but it is "a thing".
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:50 - Oct 31 by homer_123
Which is oft forgotten.
Of course, but it also helps keep other nations safe. My point is more around the UK contribution relative to other nations and relative our GDP. That said, arguably the UK has also over indexed in creating the need to keep other nations stable...
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:56 - Oct 31 by chicoazul
A copper I know joined at 21, did 30 years in the transport police and retired just last year on a pension of 25k for life and a lump sum of 150k. Probably going to live another 30 years at least. I am not saying this is bad or undeserved, but it is "a thing".
It is a "thing" but it is a known thing... known MANY years before you retired and is a reward for service in what can be demanding and stressful work.
The main problem for a Tory Government is that the Police do not make a profit, thus has to be fully funded by Central Government.
I think in recent years they have got savvier with licensing of toys etc. with image rights etc. So instead of generic toy police car, they can be bought liveried for GMP or Met. But this would be a drop in the ocean against overall cost.
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 11:07 - Oct 31 by Pendejo
It is a "thing" but it is a known thing... known MANY years before you retired and is a reward for service in what can be demanding and stressful work.
The main problem for a Tory Government is that the Police do not make a profit, thus has to be fully funded by Central Government.
I think in recent years they have got savvier with licensing of toys etc. with image rights etc. So instead of generic toy police car, they can be bought liveried for GMP or Met. But this would be a drop in the ocean against overall cost.
999 to become a premium rate number? Bobbies doubling up as super-fast Deliveroo drivers on their way to emergencies?
Honestly, these Tories reckon they know something about free enterprise and the best they can come up with are some flimsy licensing agreements...
footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:51 - Oct 31 by Marshalls_Mullet
We were the subject of a fairly violent break in a couple of years ago in Manchester.
....it hardly registered with the police, I doubt they even investigated it. They didn't keep us updated at all.
Its becoming more evident how stretched they are.
its not that they are stretched in that there arent enough of them, there are 122,000 police officers, it was only in the Blair/Brown years police numbers rose to about 140,000, historically theyve generally been between 110,000/120,000 for the past 40 or so years, its that their priorities have been switched to focus on other things, and like for instance they are now unquestionably a reactive police force (time to turn up to reported crime), rather than proactive (bobbies seen on the beat)
there are 43 constabularies who dont often talk to each other or use their numerical advantages in buying equipment, or supplies, or signing property deals
you take somewhere like Suffolk Police HQ, it costs 1million pounds every year just to keep the building running. because its old, worn out, aircon/heating keep breaking, theres no insulation to keep the heat in, the roof leaks, its full of asbestos and so on. it would be much simpler to demolish it turn into some new housing, and go and lease a modern building somewhere but not to sign the stupid lease deal like they did with the abandoned regional control centre that the government pay 2million pounds a year in rent for a building theyve never used.
if the chancellor had turned round and said Im giving Suffolk Police 1million pounds a year more, plus 2million more for East Anglia, just based on those two examples, everybody would claim the guy is an absolute saint for the police/emergency services.
but its alot easier for the police unions when faced with government budget challenges to cut police officer numbers, its standard business practice cut the bottom line costs which are people based, rather than deal with the harder costs, and because its an emotive subject they know the public will react with how dare we cut police numbers, they are stretched, rather than blimey do they really spend 1million pounds a year maintaining a knackered old building, and they hope the public force the government to fund them some more money.
I mean the irony is the PCC could add maybe a couple of % onto the council tax bill to pay for more police officers, but I guarantee most people would then object to having to pay for it.
the government doesnt have a money tree, its money they take in taxation that they spend.
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Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:29 - Oct 31 with 2448 views
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:20 - Oct 31 by stonojnr
its not that they are stretched in that there arent enough of them, there are 122,000 police officers, it was only in the Blair/Brown years police numbers rose to about 140,000, historically theyve generally been between 110,000/120,000 for the past 40 or so years, its that their priorities have been switched to focus on other things, and like for instance they are now unquestionably a reactive police force (time to turn up to reported crime), rather than proactive (bobbies seen on the beat)
there are 43 constabularies who dont often talk to each other or use their numerical advantages in buying equipment, or supplies, or signing property deals
you take somewhere like Suffolk Police HQ, it costs 1million pounds every year just to keep the building running. because its old, worn out, aircon/heating keep breaking, theres no insulation to keep the heat in, the roof leaks, its full of asbestos and so on. it would be much simpler to demolish it turn into some new housing, and go and lease a modern building somewhere but not to sign the stupid lease deal like they did with the abandoned regional control centre that the government pay 2million pounds a year in rent for a building theyve never used.
if the chancellor had turned round and said Im giving Suffolk Police 1million pounds a year more, plus 2million more for East Anglia, just based on those two examples, everybody would claim the guy is an absolute saint for the police/emergency services.
but its alot easier for the police unions when faced with government budget challenges to cut police officer numbers, its standard business practice cut the bottom line costs which are people based, rather than deal with the harder costs, and because its an emotive subject they know the public will react with how dare we cut police numbers, they are stretched, rather than blimey do they really spend 1million pounds a year maintaining a knackered old building, and they hope the public force the government to fund them some more money.
I mean the irony is the PCC could add maybe a couple of % onto the council tax bill to pay for more police officers, but I guarantee most people would then object to having to pay for it.
the government doesnt have a money tree, its money they take in taxation that they spend.
I think the general consensus amongst police men and women is that it is also about numbers. Relatively flat vs. 40 years ago in real terms is a material decline relative to population growth.
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:20 - Oct 31 by stonojnr
its not that they are stretched in that there arent enough of them, there are 122,000 police officers, it was only in the Blair/Brown years police numbers rose to about 140,000, historically theyve generally been between 110,000/120,000 for the past 40 or so years, its that their priorities have been switched to focus on other things, and like for instance they are now unquestionably a reactive police force (time to turn up to reported crime), rather than proactive (bobbies seen on the beat)
there are 43 constabularies who dont often talk to each other or use their numerical advantages in buying equipment, or supplies, or signing property deals
you take somewhere like Suffolk Police HQ, it costs 1million pounds every year just to keep the building running. because its old, worn out, aircon/heating keep breaking, theres no insulation to keep the heat in, the roof leaks, its full of asbestos and so on. it would be much simpler to demolish it turn into some new housing, and go and lease a modern building somewhere but not to sign the stupid lease deal like they did with the abandoned regional control centre that the government pay 2million pounds a year in rent for a building theyve never used.
if the chancellor had turned round and said Im giving Suffolk Police 1million pounds a year more, plus 2million more for East Anglia, just based on those two examples, everybody would claim the guy is an absolute saint for the police/emergency services.
but its alot easier for the police unions when faced with government budget challenges to cut police officer numbers, its standard business practice cut the bottom line costs which are people based, rather than deal with the harder costs, and because its an emotive subject they know the public will react with how dare we cut police numbers, they are stretched, rather than blimey do they really spend 1million pounds a year maintaining a knackered old building, and they hope the public force the government to fund them some more money.
I mean the irony is the PCC could add maybe a couple of % onto the council tax bill to pay for more police officers, but I guarantee most people would then object to having to pay for it.
the government doesnt have a money tree, its money they take in taxation that they spend.
Where I live the PCC (tory) got a significant (well above inflation) increase in the precept to pay for the police then scrapped community policing completely
Your theory may be OK but in practice it has failed
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Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:29 - Oct 31 with 2445 views
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:20 - Oct 31 by stonojnr
its not that they are stretched in that there arent enough of them, there are 122,000 police officers, it was only in the Blair/Brown years police numbers rose to about 140,000, historically theyve generally been between 110,000/120,000 for the past 40 or so years, its that their priorities have been switched to focus on other things, and like for instance they are now unquestionably a reactive police force (time to turn up to reported crime), rather than proactive (bobbies seen on the beat)
there are 43 constabularies who dont often talk to each other or use their numerical advantages in buying equipment, or supplies, or signing property deals
you take somewhere like Suffolk Police HQ, it costs 1million pounds every year just to keep the building running. because its old, worn out, aircon/heating keep breaking, theres no insulation to keep the heat in, the roof leaks, its full of asbestos and so on. it would be much simpler to demolish it turn into some new housing, and go and lease a modern building somewhere but not to sign the stupid lease deal like they did with the abandoned regional control centre that the government pay 2million pounds a year in rent for a building theyve never used.
if the chancellor had turned round and said Im giving Suffolk Police 1million pounds a year more, plus 2million more for East Anglia, just based on those two examples, everybody would claim the guy is an absolute saint for the police/emergency services.
but its alot easier for the police unions when faced with government budget challenges to cut police officer numbers, its standard business practice cut the bottom line costs which are people based, rather than deal with the harder costs, and because its an emotive subject they know the public will react with how dare we cut police numbers, they are stretched, rather than blimey do they really spend 1million pounds a year maintaining a knackered old building, and they hope the public force the government to fund them some more money.
I mean the irony is the PCC could add maybe a couple of % onto the council tax bill to pay for more police officers, but I guarantee most people would then object to having to pay for it.
the government doesnt have a money tree, its money they take in taxation that they spend.
My council tax went up 6% this year. Agree with your general sentiment though, as with NHS. Throwing more money and people at problems panders to rhetoric but there's no guarantee that it will actually improve the outcomes.
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 10:51 - Oct 31 by Marshalls_Mullet
We were the subject of a fairly violent break in a couple of years ago in Manchester.
....it hardly registered with the police, I doubt they even investigated it. They didn't keep us updated at all.
Its becoming more evident how stretched they are.
on the other hand my son and a few of his mates were coming out of the Leeds v Boro game the other month. They're regular 20 year olds, not 'football lads' or any trouble. They stopped to give directions to a group of Boro fans and next minute 2 vans of riot police tear in, pin them to the wall shout and swear at them and take names etc. At the same time the Boro fans were saying there's no problem etc. We complained about this and whether it was best use of resources etc and all we got back was a suggestion that the lads might like to become police specials. It's put him right off watching Police Interceptors
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Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:40 - Oct 31 with 2420 views
Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:29 - Oct 31 by clive_baker
I think the general consensus amongst police men and women is that it is also about numbers. Relatively flat vs. 40 years ago in real terms is a material decline relative to population growth.
You could also argue that the demand on the police force is far greater than it was 40 years ago, even without the population growth.
When you factor in population growth then that picture looks increasingly more desperate
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Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:51 - Oct 31 with 2393 views
The police are always whining, the numbers are just getting back to normal after the massive unexplainable surge in the 2000s!! Crime is higher because they’ve given up stopping it!
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Police to sue government over budget cuts on 12:52 - Oct 31 with 2393 views
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