| Jacob Rees-Mogg 13:26 - Nov 15 with 45386 views | itfcjoe |
The bloke is an absolute no mark bellend.
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:40 - Nov 18 with 2224 views | Bangor31 |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:19 - Nov 18 by sparks |
Im quite content that to take the position that homophobia is bad, and that someone in a position of power having a platform to spread those ideas is also bad, is an entirely reasonable and undiscriminatory position. |
different argument, i also disagree with this one.
there is no real evidence to say JRM is a homophobe. To say him being homophobic due to being against gay marriage due to Catholicism and their beliefs is a thin argument to say the least.
but my point
- he is deemed homophobic along with up to 2 billion people whose religion is against gay marriage
- labeling these people as a homophobes for a religious position that has been held for centuries has socially detrimental connotation, this therefore is having the same negative outcome as this supposive homophobia.
If this were actual homophobia then I would be horrible against the individual and would hope he is socially shamed for his views, this just isn't one of those situations. |  | | |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:59 - Nov 18 with 2193 views | Herbivore |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:40 - Nov 18 by Bangor31 |
different argument, i also disagree with this one.
there is no real evidence to say JRM is a homophobe. To say him being homophobic due to being against gay marriage due to Catholicism and their beliefs is a thin argument to say the least.
but my point
- he is deemed homophobic along with up to 2 billion people whose religion is against gay marriage
- labeling these people as a homophobes for a religious position that has been held for centuries has socially detrimental connotation, this therefore is having the same negative outcome as this supposive homophobia.
If this were actual homophobia then I would be horrible against the individual and would hope he is socially shamed for his views, this just isn't one of those situations. |
He chooses to believe in a fictional character who doesn't like gays, he should be accountable for that choice. |  |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:59 - Nov 18 with 2194 views | J2BLUE |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:40 - Nov 18 by Bangor31 |
different argument, i also disagree with this one.
there is no real evidence to say JRM is a homophobe. To say him being homophobic due to being against gay marriage due to Catholicism and their beliefs is a thin argument to say the least.
but my point
- he is deemed homophobic along with up to 2 billion people whose religion is against gay marriage
- labeling these people as a homophobes for a religious position that has been held for centuries has socially detrimental connotation, this therefore is having the same negative outcome as this supposive homophobia.
If this were actual homophobia then I would be horrible against the individual and would hope he is socially shamed for his views, this just isn't one of those situations. |
I agree. Rees-Mogg was re-elected despite openly admitting his views are shaped by the bible. Clearly the majority of people in his constituency who voted decided it wasn't a deal breaker. |  |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:01 - Nov 18 with 2187 views | monytowbray |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:40 - Nov 18 by Bangor31 |
different argument, i also disagree with this one.
there is no real evidence to say JRM is a homophobe. To say him being homophobic due to being against gay marriage due to Catholicism and their beliefs is a thin argument to say the least.
but my point
- he is deemed homophobic along with up to 2 billion people whose religion is against gay marriage
- labeling these people as a homophobes for a religious position that has been held for centuries has socially detrimental connotation, this therefore is having the same negative outcome as this supposive homophobia.
If this were actual homophobia then I would be horrible against the individual and would hope he is socially shamed for his views, this just isn't one of those situations. |
So you’re making the assumption all Catholics oppose gay marriage to try and say I’m discriminating?
I think you’ve done more to out yourself than anyone else there. JRM’s views stem from his religion but are not exclusive nor manditory to it.
To also downplay his views as anything but homophobic and problematic suggests you may just be upset because you share similar views and are keen for someone to normalise them. Worrying. |  |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:04 - Nov 18 with 2181 views | monytowbray |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:59 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
I agree. Rees-Mogg was re-elected despite openly admitting his views are shaped by the bible. Clearly the majority of people in his constituency who voted decided it wasn't a deal breaker. |
There are people who showed up in droves to free Tommy Robinson, that doesn’t change the fact he has vile views.
You know when a poster has Sparks and I on the same page something is seriously off. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:21 - Nov 18 with 2156 views | J2BLUE |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:59 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
He chooses to believe in a fictional character who doesn't like gays, he should be accountable for that choice. |
You are so condescending to anyone who doesn't have the exact same beliefs as you.
I don't believe in god but your attitude is awful. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:25 - Nov 18 with 2139 views | monytowbray |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:21 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
You are so condescending to anyone who doesn't have the exact same beliefs as you.
I don't believe in god but your attitude is awful. |
We are discussing normalising and defending homophobia here, is this an area you really want to sit on the fence or post whatteraboutery? | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:27 - Nov 18 with 2136 views | sparks |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 18:40 - Nov 18 by Bangor31 |
different argument, i also disagree with this one.
there is no real evidence to say JRM is a homophobe. To say him being homophobic due to being against gay marriage due to Catholicism and their beliefs is a thin argument to say the least.
but my point
- he is deemed homophobic along with up to 2 billion people whose religion is against gay marriage
- labeling these people as a homophobes for a religious position that has been held for centuries has socially detrimental connotation, this therefore is having the same negative outcome as this supposive homophobia.
If this were actual homophobia then I would be horrible against the individual and would hope he is socially shamed for his views, this just isn't one of those situations. |
Wrong. The assessment of their position is based on their belief and the position they take. Whether or not that is driven by religion is irrelevant. It is hte belief that is criticised.
The religous position is inherently homophobic. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:33 - Nov 18 with 2123 views | Herbivore |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:21 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
You are so condescending to anyone who doesn't have the exact same beliefs as you.
I don't believe in god but your attitude is awful. |
Pipe down Captain Corrigan. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:39 - Nov 18 with 2109 views | J2BLUE |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:25 - Nov 18 by monytowbray |
We are discussing normalising and defending homophobia here, is this an area you really want to sit on the fence or post whatteraboutery? |
Are we? I thought we were discussing whether it's now ok to attack people for being Christians. Don't give me the 'I know Christians who don't have those beliefs' stuff either. The only thing worse than someone swallowing every word of the bible is people picking and choosing which bits they like.
JRM has never hidden the fact he is 'whipped by the Catholic Church'. His constituents decided it wasn't an issue. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:43 - Nov 18 with 2102 views | Herbivore |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:39 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
Are we? I thought we were discussing whether it's now ok to attack people for being Christians. Don't give me the 'I know Christians who don't have those beliefs' stuff either. The only thing worse than someone swallowing every word of the bible is people picking and choosing which bits they like.
JRM has never hidden the fact he is 'whipped by the Catholic Church'. His constituents decided it wasn't an issue. |
You do back some dodgy characters. Farage, Trump, Raab, Rees-Mogg. That's some questionable judgement right there. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:46 - Nov 18 with 2095 views | J2BLUE |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:43 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
You do back some dodgy characters. Farage, Trump, Raab, Rees-Mogg. That's some questionable judgement right there. |
I wouldn't vote for any of those if I could. Admittedly this morning I would have voted for Raab. Now I know better.
I'm not backing JRM. I don't think we should be openly hostile to people with religious beliefs though. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:49 - Nov 18 with 2088 views | GeoffSentence |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:43 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
You do back some dodgy characters. Farage, Trump, Raab, Rees-Mogg. That's some questionable judgement right there. |
Is Raab dodgy? I'd never heard of him before he became berxit secretary and he didn't stay in that very long.
How is he dodgy? |  |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:53 - Nov 18 with 2073 views | Herbivore |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:46 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
I wouldn't vote for any of those if I could. Admittedly this morning I would have voted for Raab. Now I know better.
I'm not backing JRM. I don't think we should be openly hostile to people with religious beliefs though. |
The issue is though that where you hold beliefs that are anti-gay that is problematic whether it's down to religion or pure bigotry. Accepting and normalizing what amounts to homophobia, especially when in the public eye, is dangerous and leads to the kind of climate where things like this happen: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46253256 | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:55 - Nov 18 with 2063 views | Herbivore |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:49 - Nov 18 by GeoffSentence |
Is Raab dodgy? I'd never heard of him before he became berxit secretary and he didn't stay in that very long.
How is he dodgy? |
Questionable views on human rights and accusations against him of misogyny. Pretty 'old school' Tory in that respect although as others have pointed out he seems like someone who will shift his view to whatever serves his own interests (which is just pure Tory of any generation). | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:56 - Nov 18 with 2062 views | m14_blue |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:46 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
I wouldn't vote for any of those if I could. Admittedly this morning I would have voted for Raab. Now I know better.
I'm not backing JRM. I don't think we should be openly hostile to people with religious beliefs though. |
If an MP who wasn’t religious (let’s say a Tommy Robinson type character) openly discriminated against gay people, and voted accordingly, would you be so understanding?
I’m not sure why religion excuses views that are considered archaic and out of touch with the overwhelming majority of the public.
And yes, of course I would apply exactly the same criteria to other religions too.
JRM is allowed to think what he likes but, when he seeks to impose that will on others, he should expect to be challenged on it. | | | |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:59 - Nov 18 with 2057 views | monytowbray |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:53 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
The issue is though that where you hold beliefs that are anti-gay that is problematic whether it's down to religion or pure bigotry. Accepting and normalizing what amounts to homophobia, especially when in the public eye, is dangerous and leads to the kind of climate where things like this happen: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46253256 |
He’s spent too long at Stokie’s “sit on the fence and equate both sides as just as bad before claiming moral superiority” school. Hasn’t mastered the final class of putting everything into long posts and disguising personal jabs as faux intellect yet though.
Also, spanner in the works but it’s 2018. Herbs is quite right to say religion is fiction based on a modern society that values factual evidence over faith, yet if anyone posts some literal evidence of animal cruelty it’s propaganda, lies and misinformation.
I’m too ill for this sh1t. Night. [Post edited 18 Nov 2018 20:01]
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:00 - Nov 18 with 2052 views | J2BLUE |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:53 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
The issue is though that where you hold beliefs that are anti-gay that is problematic whether it's down to religion or pure bigotry. Accepting and normalizing what amounts to homophobia, especially when in the public eye, is dangerous and leads to the kind of climate where things like this happen: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46253256 |
Not sure you can pin complete stupidity on people like Rees-Mogg who are private with their beliefs until they are directly asked. Unless you can show me i'm wrong on that point.
I don't remember the same reaction to Farron when he was Lib Dem leader or even now. JRM gets more criticism because he's a Tory and Brexiteer.
That's my last comment on this subject, I keep missing big NFL plays while talking about this! | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:09 - Nov 18 with 2035 views | Herbivore |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:00 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
Not sure you can pin complete stupidity on people like Rees-Mogg who are private with their beliefs until they are directly asked. Unless you can show me i'm wrong on that point.
I don't remember the same reaction to Farron when he was Lib Dem leader or even now. JRM gets more criticism because he's a Tory and Brexiteer.
That's my last comment on this subject, I keep missing big NFL plays while talking about this! |
Farron got plenty of stick at the time. And you say it's fine for Rees-Mogg to privately hold those beliefs, but when you're an MP and you consistently deny gay people rights because of those beliefs then that is an issue for me. Here's his voting record in case you've not seen it: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/vote
Now, should someone who holds anti-gay beliefs be allowed in public office simply because those beliefs are couched in religion? I find that deeply problematic. We mock the U.S. when we hear about calls to teach creationism alongside evolution, well this is no different really and in many ways is far more pernicious. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:09 - Nov 18 with 2033 views | monytowbray |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:00 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
Not sure you can pin complete stupidity on people like Rees-Mogg who are private with their beliefs until they are directly asked. Unless you can show me i'm wrong on that point.
I don't remember the same reaction to Farron when he was Lib Dem leader or even now. JRM gets more criticism because he's a Tory and Brexiteer.
That's my last comment on this subject, I keep missing big NFL plays while talking about this! |
So you’d be happy to vote for a bigot so long as they lied when asked about being a bigot? Or you’d happily defend a bigot as not at fault because someone else asked for their views first?
Good grief. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:11 - Nov 18 with 2026 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:00 - Nov 18 by J2BLUE |
Not sure you can pin complete stupidity on people like Rees-Mogg who are private with their beliefs until they are directly asked. Unless you can show me i'm wrong on that point.
I don't remember the same reaction to Farron when he was Lib Dem leader or even now. JRM gets more criticism because he's a Tory and Brexiteer.
That's my last comment on this subject, I keep missing big NFL plays while talking about this! |
JRM get's stick because he is a Tory and because of the way he dresses and speaks.
It's reverse snobbery, pure and simple. |  |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:14 - Nov 18 with 2017 views | monytowbray |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:11 - Nov 18 by Lord_Lucan |
JRM get's stick because he is a Tory and because of the way he dresses and speaks.
It's reverse snobbery, pure and simple. |
No, he gets stick because he’s a homophobe and is against the rights of rape victims. How he dresses or who he represents is not directly relevant to why people dislike him. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:18 - Nov 18 with 2003 views | J2BLUE |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:09 - Nov 18 by monytowbray |
So you’d be happy to vote for a bigot so long as they lied when asked about being a bigot? Or you’d happily defend a bigot as not at fault because someone else asked for their views first?
Good grief. |
So you’d be happy to vote for a bigot so long as they lied when asked about being a bigot?
I might be missing something here but where did you get this from? I said Rees-Mogg keeps his views to himself but does admit them when asked. Not sure how you go that from it? | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:19 - Nov 18 with 1996 views | J2BLUE |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 19:59 - Nov 18 by monytowbray |
He’s spent too long at Stokie’s “sit on the fence and equate both sides as just as bad before claiming moral superiority” school. Hasn’t mastered the final class of putting everything into long posts and disguising personal jabs as faux intellect yet though.
Also, spanner in the works but it’s 2018. Herbs is quite right to say religion is fiction based on a modern society that values factual evidence over faith, yet if anyone posts some literal evidence of animal cruelty it’s propaganda, lies and misinformation.
I’m too ill for this sh1t. Night. [Post edited 18 Nov 2018 20:01]
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Stokie is one of the best posters on the site so thank you. | |
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| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:20 - Nov 18 with 1989 views | J2BLUE |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg on 20:09 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
Farron got plenty of stick at the time. And you say it's fine for Rees-Mogg to privately hold those beliefs, but when you're an MP and you consistently deny gay people rights because of those beliefs then that is an issue for me. Here's his voting record in case you've not seen it: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/vote
Now, should someone who holds anti-gay beliefs be allowed in public office simply because those beliefs are couched in religion? I find that deeply problematic. We mock the U.S. when we hear about calls to teach creationism alongside evolution, well this is no different really and in many ways is far more pernicious. |
Again though, his constituents voted him in knowing exactly what his views are. In a way he has a mandate to vote the way he votes from them. | |
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