| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 16:13 - Nov 17 with 3582 views | BrixtonBlue |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 16:10 - Nov 17 by monytowbray |
These “errors” are very common though, more than they should be.
The whole benefits system seems to forget people have bills to pay and need to eat. I waited 2 months for a first payment when I applied a few years back and that was before the Tories. Granted I got paid backdated but it was tight and the hoops one has to jump through with the whole system is a nightmare considering being in such situations is already stressful and depressing enough.
I think we should overhaul the whole thing and do that Universial credit thing the Green party were for. |
We have overhauled the whole thing - though I din't know if it's the same as the Universal Credit the Green Party were proposing. It's pretty new though.
I'm not entirely sure how it's different from the dole if I'm honest. |  |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 16:14 - Nov 17 with 3581 views | monytowbray |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 11:24 - Nov 17 by WeWereZombies |
If there was no money left then the system would stop working, however there is plenty of financial activity but it is often distributed unjustly.
And why don't you show a bit of truthfulness and go back to your BlueOyster avatar so everybody knows your approach? |
Oh, that explains a lot.
He’s rebranded an old act because people got wise to it? How sad. |  |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 16:17 - Nov 17 with 3549 views | No9 |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 16:00 - Nov 17 by J2BLUE |
Because the voting system they offered was crap. |
How do we, the people get to be offered anything that isn't crap and doesn't protect the political classes? |  | | |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:24 - Nov 17 with 3527 views | Ryorry |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 15:44 - Nov 17 by J2BLUE |
Again, if they have no chance of winning it's a wasted vote. |
The point is that they often only have "no chance of winning" because people are voting tactically - ie voting to keep one lot out, instead of actually voting for what they believe.
Not saying it'd work every time in every constituency, but if people voted for what they do positively believe, this would be seen by millions who would get interested, and the whole thing could then snowball - a little bit similar to groundswells of opinion getting traction in other countries.
The problem with PR is finding the best system so that a tiny minority can't hold the rest to ransom, or a thoroughly creaky coalition get to prop things up. |  |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:30 - Nov 17 with 3520 views | BrixtonBlue |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:24 - Nov 17 by Ryorry |
The point is that they often only have "no chance of winning" because people are voting tactically - ie voting to keep one lot out, instead of actually voting for what they believe.
Not saying it'd work every time in every constituency, but if people voted for what they do positively believe, this would be seen by millions who would get interested, and the whole thing could then snowball - a little bit similar to groundswells of opinion getting traction in other countries.
The problem with PR is finding the best system so that a tiny minority can't hold the rest to ransom, or a thoroughly creaky coalition get to prop things up. |
I dunno why we can't just have one vote each, for the party you want to run the country, most votes wins. | |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:30 - Nov 17 with 3520 views | monytowbray |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 16:13 - Nov 17 by BrixtonBlue |
We have overhauled the whole thing - though I din't know if it's the same as the Universal Credit the Green Party were proposing. It's pretty new though.
I'm not entirely sure how it's different from the dole if I'm honest. |
Sorry I meant to type “Allowance” and not credit.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/02/green-party-universal-basi
Yet to see any logical argument against it and it benefits EVERYONE. | |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 18:31 - Nov 17 with 3500 views | J2BLUE |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:24 - Nov 17 by Ryorry |
The point is that they often only have "no chance of winning" because people are voting tactically - ie voting to keep one lot out, instead of actually voting for what they believe.
Not saying it'd work every time in every constituency, but if people voted for what they do positively believe, this would be seen by millions who would get interested, and the whole thing could then snowball - a little bit similar to groundswells of opinion getting traction in other countries.
The problem with PR is finding the best system so that a tiny minority can't hold the rest to ransom, or a thoroughly creaky coalition get to prop things up. |
I see the point you are making but the current system and idea is so ingrained that it's impossible to change without changing the actual system. I think your idea would be met with a shrug and a "that's the way it is". No one would believe anyone else would do it. |  |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 20:44 - Nov 17 with 3457 views | No9 |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:24 - Nov 17 by Ryorry |
The point is that they often only have "no chance of winning" because people are voting tactically - ie voting to keep one lot out, instead of actually voting for what they believe.
Not saying it'd work every time in every constituency, but if people voted for what they do positively believe, this would be seen by millions who would get interested, and the whole thing could then snowball - a little bit similar to groundswells of opinion getting traction in other countries.
The problem with PR is finding the best system so that a tiny minority can't hold the rest to ransom, or a thoroughly creaky coalition get to prop things up. |
The horrible fact is that a large proportion of the electorate is not politically educated.
How many vote on what they read in the Sun/Mail/Express?
The UN Envoy says that about 15% of the population have been seriously disadvantaged by the tories and it's scheduled to get worse. What's more h says it is political juggling with people rather than for economic necessity - & people who think they are reasonable will still vote tory??????? | | | |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 00:45 - Nov 18 with 3422 views | connorscontract |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 10:28 - Nov 17 by slump |
It's been ages now. I'm surprised that you've not found any work and are claiming it. |
Was that meant to sound as critical and judgemental as it seemed to me on first reading? [Post edited 18 Nov 2018 0:48]
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 08:48 - Nov 18 with 3370 views | sparks |
There are many logical arguments against it. Two of the most significiant are
1- By definition it will cost an enormous amount of money. Whilst admin can be reduced, creating a basic income that actually protects people who are out of work would mean everyone getting a significant sum which they do not now get. How do you propose covering that?
2- It provides a baseline position whereby people can choose not to work if they prefer and to simply live off others. That is not fair on the others, and is hardly ideal for society either. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:25 - Nov 18 with 3303 views | sparks |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 08:48 - Nov 18 by sparks |
There are many logical arguments against it. Two of the most significiant are
1- By definition it will cost an enormous amount of money. Whilst admin can be reduced, creating a basic income that actually protects people who are out of work would mean everyone getting a significant sum which they do not now get. How do you propose covering that?
2- It provides a baseline position whereby people can choose not to work if they prefer and to simply live off others. That is not fair on the others, and is hardly ideal for society either. |
Do I assume this is agreed? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:28 - Nov 18 with 3288 views | No9 |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 08:48 - Nov 18 by sparks |
There are many logical arguments against it. Two of the most significiant are
1- By definition it will cost an enormous amount of money. Whilst admin can be reduced, creating a basic income that actually protects people who are out of work would mean everyone getting a significant sum which they do not now get. How do you propose covering that?
2- It provides a baseline position whereby people can choose not to work if they prefer and to simply live off others. That is not fair on the others, and is hardly ideal for society either. |
The UN Evoy's numbers of people in poverty align with the UK Charities numbers are similar at circa 15% of the population. The concern is this is rising & the numbers of children in poverty should concern any right minded person.
A large number of the people affected a those who are suffering in work poverty which means the taxpayer is underwriting the employer - that can't be right.
But the overriding thing that is unpleasant is the fact both charities and the UN say this is due to political choices on policy
What would your answer to the overall problem be? | | | |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:38 - Nov 18 with 3293 views | Darth_Koont |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:25 - Nov 18 by sparks |
Do I assume this is agreed? |
They're one way of looking at it — and against it.
To be honest, I don't care about what it could be and will be for some people if it works as a whole for society and its greater good. I certainly think the test programmes are much more relevant than anything else.
But I also have absolutely nothing against taking people who are workshy out of the economy. It's literally a false economy in many industries for people to be there if they're just there to have a job. If UBI opens things up for them to do other stuff — or in some cases — nothing at all, many businesses would already be better off and there'd be greater value to society. Not going to work for every industry but I think there's definitely a valuable aspect there. |  |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 18:07 - Nov 18 with 3285 views | sparks |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:28 - Nov 18 by No9 |
The UN Evoy's numbers of people in poverty align with the UK Charities numbers are similar at circa 15% of the population. The concern is this is rising & the numbers of children in poverty should concern any right minded person.
A large number of the people affected a those who are suffering in work poverty which means the taxpayer is underwriting the employer - that can't be right.
But the overriding thing that is unpleasant is the fact both charities and the UN say this is due to political choices on policy
What would your answer to the overall problem be? |
We have defined a lot of people into poverty by linking it to the proportion of income spent on housing, amidst high housing prices.
I dont have an overall answer. Universal credit, done correctly, should have been one part of it.
Sorting the housing issue is another.
As is the progress towards the lviing minimum wage. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 18:11 - Nov 18 with 3281 views | Ryorry |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 17:38 - Nov 18 by Darth_Koont |
They're one way of looking at it — and against it.
To be honest, I don't care about what it could be and will be for some people if it works as a whole for society and its greater good. I certainly think the test programmes are much more relevant than anything else.
But I also have absolutely nothing against taking people who are workshy out of the economy. It's literally a false economy in many industries for people to be there if they're just there to have a job. If UBI opens things up for them to do other stuff — or in some cases — nothing at all, many businesses would already be better off and there'd be greater value to society. Not going to work for every industry but I think there's definitely a valuable aspect there. |
Examples? (ref your last para in particular). | |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 19:17 - Nov 18 with 3239 views | Darth_Koont |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 18:11 - Nov 18 by Ryorry |
Examples? (ref your last para in particular). |
30 years of working in all sorts of different jobs and industries and seeing how a percentage are a cost more than an asset — although not really through any fault of their own. The basic need for money drives people into doing jobs they don't want to be doing or they're not very good at and everyone suffers. Throw in UBI and, for the same money, people can find jobs that they like or are better suited to.
That same effect would also help people become entrepreneurial to develop themselves and businesses if they don't need to worry as much about holding down a job or earning a certain amount.
And of course far too many jobs will be replaced by machines/AI or "augmented" by them anyway and jobs will be cut. So we should have a system that deals with that straightaway rather than being reactive and try to solve the social and personal upheaval afterwards. | |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 19:22 - Nov 18 with 3230 views | Ryorry |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 19:17 - Nov 18 by Darth_Koont |
30 years of working in all sorts of different jobs and industries and seeing how a percentage are a cost more than an asset — although not really through any fault of their own. The basic need for money drives people into doing jobs they don't want to be doing or they're not very good at and everyone suffers. Throw in UBI and, for the same money, people can find jobs that they like or are better suited to.
That same effect would also help people become entrepreneurial to develop themselves and businesses if they don't need to worry as much about holding down a job or earning a certain amount.
And of course far too many jobs will be replaced by machines/AI or "augmented" by them anyway and jobs will be cut. So we should have a system that deals with that straightaway rather than being reactive and try to solve the social and personal upheaval afterwards. |
I do get those points, thanks, but was really looking for examples of industries and specific jobs where people would definitely be superfluous. Aren't most businesses too cost-conscious to employ staff that aren't needed? Or are you referring to the public, perhaps charity sectors?   | |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 20:56 - Nov 18 with 3202 views | bournemouthblue |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 10:21 - Nov 17 by Darth_Koont |
5th largest economy. But, within the developed world at least, giving the US a run for its money as being the most tw@ttish and uncaring to its most vulnerable/least valuable citizens. |
I thought we were 6th now behind France? |  |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 02:21 - Nov 19 with 3168 views | WednesdayJon |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 11:10 - Nov 17 by tabletopjoe |
Amazing how people confuse ‘austerity’ with ‘actually there’s no money left’ |
In the 5th largest economy on Earth? | | | |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 10:24 - Nov 19 with 3099 views | Swansea_Blue |
I may have been too harsh. It seems that Universal Credit has been a brilliant tool for encouraging people to take personal responsibility for generating their own income. Supporting women in their independent careers.
Well done Theresa.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-46235842
Maybe she could give it a try to and see how she gets on? |  |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 16:39 - Nov 19 with 3048 views | No9 |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 18:07 - Nov 18 by sparks |
We have defined a lot of people into poverty by linking it to the proportion of income spent on housing, amidst high housing prices.
I dont have an overall answer. Universal credit, done correctly, should have been one part of it.
Sorting the housing issue is another.
As is the progress towards the lviing minimum wage. |
The housing problem is a major problem
The Panorama programme last week based on Wales highlighted the housing issues where people on UC couldn't afford private landlord rents so got chucked out then they couldn't pay the council rent so Council debts had incresed to busting point and people were being evicted with no place to go.
It's madness unless somewhere along the line someone takes a social responsible position regardign the poor.
As I understand it the UK has opted out of the social programmes some continetal & Scandinavian governments have put in place which are eliminating these issues.
UC has been a problem from day one and still no one addresses it | | | |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 18:57 - Nov 19 with 3018 views | Ryorry |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 10:24 - Nov 19 by Swansea_Blue |
I may have been too harsh. It seems that Universal Credit has been a brilliant tool for encouraging people to take personal responsibility for generating their own income. Supporting women in their independent careers.
Well done Theresa.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-46235842
Maybe she could give it a try to and see how she gets on? |
Sadly, it's not the first time some people have had to face going down that path - e.g. long-term sick or disabled people who were told they'd been assessed as "fit for (conventional) work", when they were clearly too ill or incapacitated - goes back to the 1980s and Thatcher. | |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 19:14 - Nov 19 with 3007 views | Swansea_Blue |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 18:57 - Nov 19 by Ryorry |
Sadly, it's not the first time some people have had to face going down that path - e.g. long-term sick or disabled people who were told they'd been assessed as "fit for (conventional) work", when they were clearly too ill or incapacitated - goes back to the 1980s and Thatcher. |
Students are increasingly turning to it too, since the fees rocketed to £9k+ per year. Swansea Uni ran a student sex workers project for a while that received quite a lot of publicity. It’s madness that students have to sell their bodies to afford their fees*, and that we need initiatives to try to keep them safe.
*when I was a student I struggled to give mine away for free! | |
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| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 19:39 - Nov 19 with 2986 views | BloomBlue |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 19:14 - Nov 19 by Swansea_Blue |
Students are increasingly turning to it too, since the fees rocketed to £9k+ per year. Swansea Uni ran a student sex workers project for a while that received quite a lot of publicity. It’s madness that students have to sell their bodies to afford their fees*, and that we need initiatives to try to keep them safe.
*when I was a student I struggled to give mine away for free! |
Students can get part time jobs surely, it's not as if they're at Uni 9-5 M-F. People who don't go to Uni have to work 9-5 so what's stopping students getting part time jobs. |  | | |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 19:47 - Nov 19 with 2977 views | SpruceMoose |
| My god, just read this - shocking, shocking, shocking - on 19:39 - Nov 19 by BloomBlue |
Students can get part time jobs surely, it's not as if they're at Uni 9-5 M-F. People who don't go to Uni have to work 9-5 so what's stopping students getting part time jobs. |
Why should those students from affluent backgrounds get to be the only students who don't have to worry about working?  |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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