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I see May.... 13:02 - Nov 25 with 6203 viewsHerbivore

....is going for the whole control of our borders, sovereign island nation rhetoric to try and sell the public a pup. What a load of shameful, populist tosh.

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I see May.... on 13:07 - Nov 25 with 3487 viewsWD19

What we need is a competent opposition with a credible plan. Any ideas on where we can hope to find one!?
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I see May.... on 13:08 - Nov 25 with 3485 viewscobbler

We only have two ships controlling our coast line it’s embarrassing to be honest can’t see how we are going to be safe and free from illegal immigrants with that .
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I see May.... on 13:09 - Nov 25 with 3484 viewsHerbivore

I see May.... on 13:07 - Nov 25 by WD19

What we need is a competent opposition with a credible plan. Any ideas on where we can hope to find one!?


I like how every time there is a criticism of this shambles of a government you immediately try to switch focus to Labour. It's great, well done you.

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I see May.... on 13:11 - Nov 25 with 3470 viewsgiant_stow

Did she actually use the word sovereign?! Cheeky fcker. Subservient would be more accurate.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
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I see May.... on 13:13 - Nov 25 with 3457 viewsWD19

I see May.... on 13:09 - Nov 25 by Herbivore

I like how every time there is a criticism of this shambles of a government you immediately try to switch focus to Labour. It's great, well done you.


The thing with a two party system is that one party will nearly always be in power. Therefore (under that system) the answer to a poor party in power can only ever really be the 'other' party.

So yes....I would welcome a competent Labour Party. Strong opposition makes for better government.
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I see May.... on 13:14 - Nov 25 with 3448 viewsHerbivore

I see May.... on 13:13 - Nov 25 by WD19

The thing with a two party system is that one party will nearly always be in power. Therefore (under that system) the answer to a poor party in power can only ever really be the 'other' party.

So yes....I would welcome a competent Labour Party. Strong opposition makes for better government.


None of which has anything to do with this thread, but you crack on with your distraction tactics. It's not at all tedious, honestly.

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I see May.... on 13:15 - Nov 25 with 3446 viewsgiant_stow

I see May.... on 13:09 - Nov 25 by Herbivore

I like how every time there is a criticism of this shambles of a government you immediately try to switch focus to Labour. It's great, well done you.


What if you reframe the question: How have Labour helped in the whole Brexit shambles?

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I see May.... on 13:18 - Nov 25 with 3438 viewsSomethingBlue

The "end freedom of movement once and for all" line, basically the top selling point in today's letter, is disgusting. So, so, so sad.

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I see May.... on 13:19 - Nov 25 with 3421 viewsWD19

I see May.... on 13:14 - Nov 25 by Herbivore

None of which has anything to do with this thread, but you crack on with your distraction tactics. It's not at all tedious, honestly.


If you choose not to see the role weak opposition has played in getting us to the position we are in then that is your choice.
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I see May.... on 13:28 - Nov 25 with 3390 viewsHerbivore

I see May.... on 13:19 - Nov 25 by WD19

If you choose not to see the role weak opposition has played in getting us to the position we are in then that is your choice.


A certain poster would be proud of your whataboutery. You're doing Tory HQ proud.

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I see May.... on 13:30 - Nov 25 with 3373 viewsHerbivore

I see May.... on 13:15 - Nov 25 by giant_stow

What if you reframe the question: How have Labour helped in the whole Brexit shambles?


Start a thread on that if you want to discuss it, it's an open forum. I don't really see what relevance the question has to May's rhetoric which is designed to pander to the xenophobes.

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I see May.... on 13:38 - Nov 25 with 3352 viewsgiant_stow

I see May.... on 13:30 - Nov 25 by Herbivore

Start a thread on that if you want to discuss it, it's an open forum. I don't really see what relevance the question has to May's rhetoric which is designed to pander to the xenophobes.


Hey mr fighty! I think its fair question on a thread about May, even when chatting about pandering to xenophobes - isn't this why labour have ignored the bulk of their voters? Worries up north about immigration and respecting the vote?

The failure of politicians has been collective.
[Post edited 25 Nov 2018 13:39]

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
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I see May.... on 13:44 - Nov 25 with 3334 viewsDarth_Koont

I see May.... on 13:38 - Nov 25 by giant_stow

Hey mr fighty! I think its fair question on a thread about May, even when chatting about pandering to xenophobes - isn't this why labour have ignored the bulk of their voters? Worries up north about immigration and respecting the vote?

The failure of politicians has been collective.
[Post edited 25 Nov 2018 13:39]


Yes, but the Tories have been the ones actually driving the Brexit clown car.

The failure to keep them in check has been collective - from the Labour party and other opponents, the media and the public themselves, many of whom have enabled this.

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I see May.... on 13:47 - Nov 25 with 3316 viewsgiant_stow

I see May.... on 13:44 - Nov 25 by Darth_Koont

Yes, but the Tories have been the ones actually driving the Brexit clown car.

The failure to keep them in check has been collective - from the Labour party and other opponents, the media and the public themselves, many of whom have enabled this.


That's fair, especially the mention for the public's role.

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I see May.... on 13:55 - Nov 25 with 3295 viewsDarth_Koont

I see May.... on 13:47 - Nov 25 by giant_stow

That's fair, especially the mention for the public's role.


There also hasn't been an environment for genuine opposition (remember how the "traitor" and "enemy of the people" accusations were so easily bandied about early on). Or knowledge about where the government was even heading, so chaotic and nonsensical was their negotiating process.

And personally I think that leaving the government to wallow in this and implode has actually done more to oppose a hard Brexit and perhaps even Brexit itself than any posturing would have done over the past couple of years. Rather than closing ranks, the government and the Tory party have ripped into each other and come up with their own botched deal as a result.
[Post edited 25 Nov 2018 13:58]

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I see May.... on 13:58 - Nov 25 with 3289 viewsDarth_Koont

Wow! I just read the full letter ... what a load of self-serving, "red, white and blue" nonsense.

Worst. PM. Ever.

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I see May.... on 14:00 - Nov 25 with 3279 viewsgiant_stow

I see May.... on 13:55 - Nov 25 by Darth_Koont

There also hasn't been an environment for genuine opposition (remember how the "traitor" and "enemy of the people" accusations were so easily bandied about early on). Or knowledge about where the government was even heading, so chaotic and nonsensical was their negotiating process.

And personally I think that leaving the government to wallow in this and implode has actually done more to oppose a hard Brexit and perhaps even Brexit itself than any posturing would have done over the past couple of years. Rather than closing ranks, the government and the Tory party have ripped into each other and come up with their own botched deal as a result.
[Post edited 25 Nov 2018 13:58]


Re your second para, doesn't praising that sort of naked politicking run counter to your normal view that politics in this country is sh1t and useless?

How much more positive if Labour had spoken out about the positives of remaining and not locking people out the country. It would have also been more true to the majority of their voters who have in affect been left without representation (another of your complaints, I think).

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
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I see May.... on 14:15 - Nov 25 with 3246 viewsDarth_Koont

I see May.... on 14:00 - Nov 25 by giant_stow

Re your second para, doesn't praising that sort of naked politicking run counter to your normal view that politics in this country is sh1t and useless?

How much more positive if Labour had spoken out about the positives of remaining and not locking people out the country. It would have also been more true to the majority of their voters who have in affect been left without representation (another of your complaints, I think).


It is sh!t and useless. But it is also pretty clear that the reality of Brexit would prove just how sh!t and useless the government is, whereas opposition would undoubtedly help them cover it up as usual.

I wish there was room for principles and committed public servants but in our current system and media landscape that's not that easy. How they have singularly all failed to deal with their shortcomings that left people making a protest vote over Brexit is a case in point. It's also why Scotland could easily ignore that and vote Remain - there, we've known successive blue or red governments have been sh!t and useless so we weren't going to project that on to the EU who is more of an ally towards progressive change than anything else.

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I see May.... on 14:50 - Nov 25 with 3188 viewsNewcyBlue

I see May.... on 13:08 - Nov 25 by cobbler

We only have two ships controlling our coast line it’s embarrassing to be honest can’t see how we are going to be safe and free from illegal immigrants with that .


The closest our coast gets to mainland Europe is the Dover Strait. One of the busiest shipping lanes in the world.

You’re safe from illegal immigrants. I have gone through that area a lot of times and not once have I seen illegal immigrants.

The rest of the coast is pretty much too far, or the sea builds up off the coast too much.

I’d hate to be so scared of brown people that I worry about them swimming across the North Sea, but then again, I’m not an idiot.

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I see May.... on 15:23 - Nov 25 with 3139 viewsfactual_blue

I see May.... on 13:28 - Nov 25 by Herbivore

A certain poster would be proud of your whataboutery. You're doing Tory HQ proud.


Whataboutism is the first refuge of the intellectually bereft.

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I see May.... on 15:27 - Nov 25 with 3121 viewsfactual_blue

I see May.... on 13:44 - Nov 25 by Darth_Koont

Yes, but the Tories have been the ones actually driving the Brexit clown car.

The failure to keep them in check has been collective - from the Labour party and other opponents, the media and the public themselves, many of whom have enabled this.


I would say any opposition party would see the strategy of 'they've caused this mess, let them sort it out' as a legitimate one. Labour want a general election, and all opposition parties tend to keep their powder dry until the campaign is clearly imminent. As things stand the tories can't really land a blow on Labour.

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I see May.... on 15:28 - Nov 25 with 3112 viewsfactual_blue

I see May.... on 14:50 - Nov 25 by NewcyBlue

The closest our coast gets to mainland Europe is the Dover Strait. One of the busiest shipping lanes in the world.

You’re safe from illegal immigrants. I have gone through that area a lot of times and not once have I seen illegal immigrants.

The rest of the coast is pretty much too far, or the sea builds up off the coast too much.

I’d hate to be so scared of brown people that I worry about them swimming across the North Sea, but then again, I’m not an idiot.


You wouldn't fit into Essex then.

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I see May.... on 15:35 - Nov 25 with 3099 viewsWD19

I see May.... on 15:27 - Nov 25 by factual_blue

I would say any opposition party would see the strategy of 'they've caused this mess, let them sort it out' as a legitimate one. Labour want a general election, and all opposition parties tend to keep their powder dry until the campaign is clearly imminent. As things stand the tories can't really land a blow on Labour.


It is a perfectly legitimate strategy if the prime objective is winning a short-term game of political football via lowest common denominator politicking.

My personal view is that on some things......some once in a generation things...then the national interest.....the interest of my children and my children children.....should take precedence. Its only my personal view, but putting personal political interest so clearly at the top of the list of priorities was unforgivable when Cameron did it and unforgivable for all those doing it since.
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I see May.... on 16:05 - Nov 25 with 3054 viewsTrequartista

She doesn't really have to sell it to the public. I suspect the majority of the public just want it done. It's parliament she needs to convince.

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I see May.... on 16:07 - Nov 25 with 3046 viewsDarth_Koont

I see May.... on 16:05 - Nov 25 by Trequartista

She doesn't really have to sell it to the public. I suspect the majority of the public just want it done. It's parliament she needs to convince.


I suspect the majority of the public now want us to remain and wish we'd never embarked on this fool's errand.

I doubt it'll get through parliament anyway.

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