| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right 07:46 - Dec 3 with 9873 views | Oxford_Blue |
to be in the top six or in the Premiership and our former success (now at least 37 years ago) is like millstone.
Fact is, if the fans don’t support the club - and 13,000 on Wednesday was very poor - the owner won’t make money available to buy players and the players aren’t good enough, the truth is we deserve to be in the third tier.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2018 8:03]
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:22 - Dec 3 with 1824 views | SpruceMoose |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:20 - Dec 3 by giant_stow |
There's an elephant in this room that's too painful for many of you to acknowledge.
Of course some of your fans are to blame. Anyone who wanted MM out, booed, protested or wittered on here is partly to blame. You demanded a gamble, got your way and it looks like it might be failing.
It goes back further than that though - some of you *still* seem to think you're a big club and deserve to be doing better. You're not and you don't. If you'd accepted that and hoped for the best, then maybe you'd still have MM, or at least be less bludy agro towards an owner that has pumped in much lala, without which, you'd be in even more trouble. Now he seems next out.
Apologies if some feel I'm talking out of turn - feel free to bash me up with your put downs. |
"Apologies if some feel I'm talking out of turn - feel free to bash me up with your put downs."
Nah, you're pretty much a blue at this point. You're probably in as much pain as the rest of us. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:26 - Dec 3 with 1816 views | giant_stow |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:22 - Dec 3 by SpruceMoose |
"Apologies if some feel I'm talking out of turn - feel free to bash me up with your put downs."
Nah, you're pretty much a blue at this point. You're probably in as much pain as the rest of us. |
ouch, that one hurt. first post too. thought I'd prepared for the slating well, but clearly not. |  |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:32 - Dec 3 with 1796 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:20 - Dec 3 by giant_stow |
There's an elephant in this room that's too painful for many of you to acknowledge.
Of course some of your fans are to blame. Anyone who wanted MM out, booed, protested or wittered on here is partly to blame. You demanded a gamble, got your way and it looks like it might be failing.
It goes back further than that though - some of you *still* seem to think you're a big club and deserve to be doing better. You're not and you don't. If you'd accepted that and hoped for the best, then maybe you'd still have MM, or at least be less bludy agro towards an owner that has pumped in much lala, without which, you'd be in even more trouble. Now he seems next out.
Apologies if some feel I'm talking out of turn - feel free to bash me up with your put downs. |
Agree entirely. You’ve basically made my point in a different way.
There is an arrogance amongst some Ipswich fans: they feel entitled to have a club that is well funded by someone else’s money so that Evans takes all the risks, whilst at the same they blame him for doing the very things they wanted (eg not keeping MM and getting a younger manager in) and don’t turn up to games or support the club in its time of need. Many of them turned on MM, as indeed they turned on Jim Magilton years ago. Yet any criticism of their views or counter argument is met with a snowflake like defensiveness. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:37 - Dec 3 with 1785 views | giant_stow |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:32 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
Agree entirely. You’ve basically made my point in a different way.
There is an arrogance amongst some Ipswich fans: they feel entitled to have a club that is well funded by someone else’s money so that Evans takes all the risks, whilst at the same they blame him for doing the very things they wanted (eg not keeping MM and getting a younger manager in) and don’t turn up to games or support the club in its time of need. Many of them turned on MM, as indeed they turned on Jim Magilton years ago. Yet any criticism of their views or counter argument is met with a snowflake like defensiveness. |
The Evans taking all the risks bit seems especially true. Just how much do some of your fans want him to put in?! Lucky to have him - you lot could have easily been another Portsmouth.. | |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:42 - Dec 3 with 1767 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:37 - Dec 3 by giant_stow |
The Evans taking all the risks bit seems especially true. Just how much do some of your fans want him to put in?! Lucky to have him - you lot could have easily been another Portsmouth.. |
I’m not sure i would go as far as to say we are lucky to have him - his lack of investment in new players (and reluctance to replace those we sell) has meant that we can’t compete. That said, yes, he is willing to plug the gap each season of million of pounds of losses. Sheepshanks and the board then didnt do that and the club almost went bust.
What a lot of supporters don’t seem to grasp is that the club is a poor target for anyone wanting to buy it because it loses money and has very few assets. They say he should go, but that means the club folding, unless someone is willing to take it on. And there clearly isn’t anyone. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:43 - Dec 3 with 1763 views | SpruceMoose |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:42 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
I’m not sure i would go as far as to say we are lucky to have him - his lack of investment in new players (and reluctance to replace those we sell) has meant that we can’t compete. That said, yes, he is willing to plug the gap each season of million of pounds of losses. Sheepshanks and the board then didnt do that and the club almost went bust.
What a lot of supporters don’t seem to grasp is that the club is a poor target for anyone wanting to buy it because it loses money and has very few assets. They say he should go, but that means the club folding, unless someone is willing to take it on. And there clearly isn’t anyone. |
I'll have enough saved by 2230 if we can find a way to keep the club going until then. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:02 - Dec 3 with 1741 views | Slambo |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:37 - Dec 3 by giant_stow |
The Evans taking all the risks bit seems especially true. Just how much do some of your fans want him to put in?! Lucky to have him - you lot could have easily been another Portsmouth.. |
Who are currently sitting pretty atop League 1, mostly fan owned, and by all accounts absolutely loving life. They'll get in the Prem waaaay before we ever do...
NO club has a divine right to success (and it is an affront to nature that a cartel of teams in the PL have been allowed to rig it so that they CAN effectively guarantee success, but that's an argument for another thread) and I think it's tenuous to think that and wanting McCarthy out are related...
Come on - in the 16 halves of football Ipswich played against Norwich, in how many of them were we better..? 3 maybe..? And Ipswich and Norwich are clubs of approximately a similar demographic - small/middling, provincial clubs who draw their support from their immediate locales. AND YET Norwich have consistently out-performed us. Why? Because they have a dedicated, ambitious, long-term ownership model. Notice how I didn't mention 'rich'. Evans bought this club to make it successful and turn a profit. He has, by his own success criteria, ABSOLUTELY muffed it. McCarthy was able to window dress what was a rotten, crumbling structure. Whoever the hell we had in charge, Ipswich was only ever going in one direction...
As another aside, I don't get - especially in an age when the gap between rich and poor has never been greater - why there is still so much appeasement of Evans. He is a billionaire, non-dom spiv who has taken something I love and greatly enfeebled it, possibly rendering it irrelevant for a generation. And yet people still line up to kiss his ar$e. Baffling... |  |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:09 - Dec 3 with 1731 views | HennikerBlu |
Oxford and Ulla, blaming the fans is an odd route to go down. It is also a slightly weird that you seem to feel Town fans have an entitlement, you want to come and live in the town, I can tell you the good old days, are well part of our history and in the distant past. That does not mean we should not be proud of it.
PL highlighted the disconnect with the club when he invited some of the ex players along something the club has failed to do for some time. It really does need to build bridges with the community something it has failed to do. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:11]
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:10 - Dec 3 with 1728 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:02 - Dec 3 by Slambo |
Who are currently sitting pretty atop League 1, mostly fan owned, and by all accounts absolutely loving life. They'll get in the Prem waaaay before we ever do...
NO club has a divine right to success (and it is an affront to nature that a cartel of teams in the PL have been allowed to rig it so that they CAN effectively guarantee success, but that's an argument for another thread) and I think it's tenuous to think that and wanting McCarthy out are related...
Come on - in the 16 halves of football Ipswich played against Norwich, in how many of them were we better..? 3 maybe..? And Ipswich and Norwich are clubs of approximately a similar demographic - small/middling, provincial clubs who draw their support from their immediate locales. AND YET Norwich have consistently out-performed us. Why? Because they have a dedicated, ambitious, long-term ownership model. Notice how I didn't mention 'rich'. Evans bought this club to make it successful and turn a profit. He has, by his own success criteria, ABSOLUTELY muffed it. McCarthy was able to window dress what was a rotten, crumbling structure. Whoever the hell we had in charge, Ipswich was only ever going in one direction...
As another aside, I don't get - especially in an age when the gap between rich and poor has never been greater - why there is still so much appeasement of Evans. He is a billionaire, non-dom spiv who has taken something I love and greatly enfeebled it, possibly rendering it irrelevant for a generation. And yet people still line up to kiss his ar$e. Baffling... |
What’s your solution?
You don’t have one.
It’s just complaining. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:12 - Dec 3 with 1725 views | SpruceMoose |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:10 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
What’s your solution?
You don’t have one.
It’s just complaining. |
What the fook is wrong with complaining? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:14 - Dec 3 with 1722 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:09 - Dec 3 by HennikerBlu |
Oxford and Ulla, blaming the fans is an odd route to go down. It is also a slightly weird that you seem to feel Town fans have an entitlement, you want to come and live in the town, I can tell you the good old days, are well part of our history and in the distant past. That does not mean we should not be proud of it.
PL highlighted the disconnect with the club when he invited some of the ex players along something the club has failed to do for some time. It really does need to build bridges with the community something it has failed to do. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:11]
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Not blaming the fans.
I’m pointing out that many Ipswich fans expect Evans to take risks they wouldn’t take themselves and apply a lack of commercial judgement they wouldn’t (and don’t) apply themselves.
It is Evans’ club, it’s his money. He doesn’t owe the fans a duty to spend tens of millions of money each season he won’t see again. If 17,000 fans want to club together and invest £1,000 a season it would raise enough to buy out Evans, cover the losses and have a little left over. Will this happen? No. Quite reasonably, most fans choose to spend that money on other things. They apply commercial judgement. Yet they feel entitled to tell Evans how to spend his money on his business. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:15 - Dec 3 with 1721 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:12 - Dec 3 by SpruceMoose |
What the fook is wrong with complaining? |
What is your solution? | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:17 - Dec 3 with 1719 views | Slambo |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 15:42 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
I’m not sure i would go as far as to say we are lucky to have him - his lack of investment in new players (and reluctance to replace those we sell) has meant that we can’t compete. That said, yes, he is willing to plug the gap each season of million of pounds of losses. Sheepshanks and the board then didnt do that and the club almost went bust.
What a lot of supporters don’t seem to grasp is that the club is a poor target for anyone wanting to buy it because it loses money and has very few assets. They say he should go, but that means the club folding, unless someone is willing to take it on. And there clearly isn’t anyone. |
I can't imagine Bournemouth, Brighton, Swansea, Cardiff, Hull, Wigan or Reading, to think of a few off the top of my head, were particularly attractive prospects when they were bought...
I never get this. Ipswich is an immensely attractive prospect. The stadium might be tied to the council, but it has a 30,000 capacity and would be packed every blimmin week if we looked in any way like we were competitive..! We have a relatively captive audience; I mean, we suffer the same as any other club with regard to the threat of televised football, but at the end of the day, if you live in Suffolk, and want to watch live football, you have little choice but to go watch Ipswich...
If I was a wealthy investor, looking to buy a football club, i'd be rubbing my hands at the prospect of Ipswich going down. I could then swoop in and get a club with top end Championship potential at a League 1 price... | |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:17 - Dec 3 with 1717 views | SpruceMoose |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:15 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
What is your solution? |
You're confused. The right to complain is not dependent on being the person with a solution to the issue at hand. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:21]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:19 - Dec 3 with 1715 views | Slambo |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:10 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
What’s your solution?
You don’t have one.
It’s just complaining. |
Eh..?! I thought my solution was pretty clear. Evans out, an ambitious ownership group in... | |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:21 - Dec 3 with 1710 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:17 - Dec 3 by SpruceMoose |
You're confused. The right to complain is not dependent on being the person with a solution to the issue at hand. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:21]
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I’m not confusing either.
Haven’t said there isn’t a right to complain.
But there are two types of people - those who complain, whinge and moan; and those who advocate solutions and positive steps.
Mine is to recognise that it is Evans’ business and he is not going to change so we need to get behind the club; or, 17,000 people or so need to put their money into the club and buy out Evans. I’d be prepared to do that, subject to agreement on who would be on the board. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:22 - Dec 3 with 1705 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:19 - Dec 3 by Slambo |
Eh..?! I thought my solution was pretty clear. Evans out, an ambitious ownership group in... |
“Ambitious ownership group”
Which is???
Otherwise it’s just pie in the sky wishful statements of the obvious. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:24 - Dec 3 with 1702 views | BackToRussia |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:22 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
“Ambitious ownership group”
Which is???
Otherwise it’s just pie in the sky wishful statements of the obvious. |
Try reading his post again. |  |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:24 - Dec 3 with 1702 views | SpruceMoose |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:21 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
I’m not confusing either.
Haven’t said there isn’t a right to complain.
But there are two types of people - those who complain, whinge and moan; and those who advocate solutions and positive steps.
Mine is to recognise that it is Evans’ business and he is not going to change so we need to get behind the club; or, 17,000 people or so need to put their money into the club and buy out Evans. I’d be prepared to do that, subject to agreement on who would be on the board. |
Your proposed solution does nothing to improve the situation. There will just be more people in Portman Road to see us get spanked every week.
It also sets a rather high target for you yourself to achieve. If your solution is bums on seats dependent, and you wish to practice what you preach, then it is going to be tough work for you to make every single home and away game for the rest of Evans ownership. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:26 - Dec 3 with 1700 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:17 - Dec 3 by Slambo |
I can't imagine Bournemouth, Brighton, Swansea, Cardiff, Hull, Wigan or Reading, to think of a few off the top of my head, were particularly attractive prospects when they were bought...
I never get this. Ipswich is an immensely attractive prospect. The stadium might be tied to the council, but it has a 30,000 capacity and would be packed every blimmin week if we looked in any way like we were competitive..! We have a relatively captive audience; I mean, we suffer the same as any other club with regard to the threat of televised football, but at the end of the day, if you live in Suffolk, and want to watch live football, you have little choice but to go watch Ipswich...
If I was a wealthy investor, looking to buy a football club, i'd be rubbing my hands at the prospect of Ipswich going down. I could then swoop in and get a club with top end Championship potential at a League 1 price... |
I’m afraid i simply disagree with your analysis that Ipswich is an attractive proposition. It makes no reference at all to the financial position of the club and the fact that even with gates of 16-18,000 it has been a loss making business. It has no assets and significant debt. Relegation will cost £5-6m immediately in lost TV revenue plus crowds will fall.
The fact Suffolk is pretty and Ipswich might have been successful 40 years ago doesn’t change the above. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:28 - Dec 3 with 1697 views | SpruceMoose |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:26 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
I’m afraid i simply disagree with your analysis that Ipswich is an attractive proposition. It makes no reference at all to the financial position of the club and the fact that even with gates of 16-18,000 it has been a loss making business. It has no assets and significant debt. Relegation will cost £5-6m immediately in lost TV revenue plus crowds will fall.
The fact Suffolk is pretty and Ipswich might have been successful 40 years ago doesn’t change the above. |
Tell us more about the debt situation please. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:30 - Dec 3 with 1695 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:24 - Dec 3 by SpruceMoose |
Your proposed solution does nothing to improve the situation. There will just be more people in Portman Road to see us get spanked every week.
It also sets a rather high target for you yourself to achieve. If your solution is bums on seats dependent, and you wish to practice what you preach, then it is going to be tough work for you to make every single home and away game for the rest of Evans ownership. |
To suggest that thousands more people at home games isn’t positive is nonsense. Clearly the club recognised this issue with the recent promotion. PL says he needs the fans’ support. More supporters also provides a major revenue stream.
To suggest that supporting the club does nothing to help isn’t your strongest argument.
As for attending every match, that’s what season tickets are for and clearly in any event the margins aren’t so fine as to be unable to miss a few matches. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:32 - Dec 3 with 1692 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:24 - Dec 3 by BackToRussia |
Try reading his post again. |
Yep, still have the same question.
It’s stating the obvious to say we want a new owner.
Unless you can point to one, it’s no solution at all. | | | |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:32 - Dec 3 with 1689 views | SpruceMoose |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:30 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
To suggest that thousands more people at home games isn’t positive is nonsense. Clearly the club recognised this issue with the recent promotion. PL says he needs the fans’ support. More supporters also provides a major revenue stream.
To suggest that supporting the club does nothing to help isn’t your strongest argument.
As for attending every match, that’s what season tickets are for and clearly in any event the margins aren’t so fine as to be unable to miss a few matches. |
You don't appear to have much of a solution is what I am hearing. You just want to shout down anyone who seems to be unhappy with Evans ownership. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:42 - Dec 3 with 1683 views | HennikerBlu |
| Maybe the third tier is now our level. Many fans think we have a right on 16:14 - Dec 3 by Oxford_Blue |
Not blaming the fans.
I’m pointing out that many Ipswich fans expect Evans to take risks they wouldn’t take themselves and apply a lack of commercial judgement they wouldn’t (and don’t) apply themselves.
It is Evans’ club, it’s his money. He doesn’t owe the fans a duty to spend tens of millions of money each season he won’t see again. If 17,000 fans want to club together and invest £1,000 a season it would raise enough to buy out Evans, cover the losses and have a little left over. Will this happen? No. Quite reasonably, most fans choose to spend that money on other things. They apply commercial judgement. Yet they feel entitled to tell Evans how to spend his money on his business. |
Sure but that is the same for fans across the country at all clubs; they all want chairman/investors to spend. I tend not to worry about things I cannot control, I will not rant about Evans because it will not change anything.
BUT
When you use terms like "Evans club" you are starting to move it away from the fans and then you will see apathy increase. Which is the case today. Your arguments suggest (in my mind) the club should be renamed 'Evans FC'. In fact your posts do more for my argument about the disconnect the club has. The reality is ME needs the fans as without them there is no club, so a balance has to be struck.
Unfortunately football has moved on and big bucks are needed now in the Championship just to compete. The fans have not created that back drop alone and it is not just a problem at ITFC.
Your point about fans digging into their own pockets is an interesting one, name me one club in the top two divisions where this has been done? I for one would happily do it, but it is unrealistic for a variety of reasons. Trying to compare £50k income bracket families with wealthy business people is nonsense, it is not about commercial judgment, because for starters the majority are not business people and would not have any experience of this.
Fans the world over criticise products and performances, that is human nature, but Evans should not be allowed to operate uncritically that would be highly naïve, On the other hand nothing I say or do (and I never have) will make him spend more or less. However, as a 'product' Evans FC or Ipswich Town FC needs to be successful and to do that the Owner needs the fans on side. I think you will also find the fans as a collective still invest more in the club than ME does and so it is wrong to imply that the risk is all his alone. | | | |
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