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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h 21:21 - Dec 4 with 2043 viewsOxford_Blue

It’s a hell of a hole.

You can see why Evans wants to set off player sales against it.

It’s a failing business. It would go bust without the owner underwriting it.

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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:25 - Dec 4 with 2029 viewsdavblue

True but at the same time he wants promotion to the
Premier league.

So what at his current investment level is he getting out of owning the club? He’s not a supporter of the club and he’s not going to make any money on it anytime soon.

It can’t be enjoyable over the 10 year period for him.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:26 - Dec 4 with 2022 viewsLord_Lucan

Well played Marcus Evans but watch out................................


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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:31 - Dec 4 with 1980 viewsCheltenham_Blue

It would help if the owner wasn’t taking interest out though wouldn’t it?

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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:45 - Dec 4 with 1916 viewsOxford_Blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:31 - Dec 4 by Cheltenham_Blue

It would help if the owner wasn’t taking interest out though wouldn’t it?


It makes no difference.

He’s not “taking interest out”.

It’s interest charged by one company he owns to another.

It’s interest on the money he put in the club. If the club had borrowed the money it would have paid the same interest anyway but been worse off (as it would have had to repay it). The club isn’t repating any interest.

Without Evans we would be in adminstration.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:48 - Dec 4 with 1890 viewsBloomBlue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:45 - Dec 4 by Oxford_Blue

It makes no difference.

He’s not “taking interest out”.

It’s interest charged by one company he owns to another.

It’s interest on the money he put in the club. If the club had borrowed the money it would have paid the same interest anyway but been worse off (as it would have had to repay it). The club isn’t repating any interest.

Without Evans we would be in adminstration.


Don't try and explain it, those who hate Evans have their heads in the sand and think he's taking us for a ride and will never accept he isn't. It's a simple world in which they live
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:52 - Dec 4 with 1876 viewsOxford_Blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:48 - Dec 4 by BloomBlue

Don't try and explain it, those who hate Evans have their heads in the sand and think he's taking us for a ride and will never accept he isn't. It's a simple world in which they live


Yeah I’ve come to realise what you say is true.

A reasoned and intelligent analysis seems beyond many who are governed by emotion and frustration. The club is a loss making business. Losses of £8.4m are significant. The wage bill alone was more than the entire turnover. Someone has to plug the gap. No other town fan can or wants to do it, but they all expect Evans to do it year on year. If he didn’t, we would go into adminstration, and i doubt this time - with relegation on the horizon and dwindling crowds - we would come through it.

The debt is irrelevant. Evans would write it off tomorrow I suspect if a credible buyer came forward and offers him £1 for the whole club. Evans would immediately be millions better off.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:54 - Dec 4 with 1870 viewsXYZ

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:31 - Dec 4 by Cheltenham_Blue

It would help if the owner wasn’t taking interest out though wouldn’t it?


I suspect that the UK's "transfer pricing" tax rules effectively force him to charge interest on the loan as, assuming the lender is a UK company, the lender would be required to bring a "market rate" interest credit into its tax computation even if it wasn't in the accounts.

Charging the interest in the ITFC accounts merely neutralises the transaction on a group basis.

Whether the interest is "paid" or "accrued" I haven't looked at the latest accounts, so I don't know if its included in the mythical "annual funding" figure or not.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:56 - Dec 4 with 1849 viewsclive_baker

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:31 - Dec 4 by Cheltenham_Blue

It would help if the owner wasn’t taking interest out though wouldn’t it?


Please stop peddling this, it’s simply not true

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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 22:03 - Dec 4 with 1816 viewsChocorange

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:52 - Dec 4 by Oxford_Blue

Yeah I’ve come to realise what you say is true.

A reasoned and intelligent analysis seems beyond many who are governed by emotion and frustration. The club is a loss making business. Losses of £8.4m are significant. The wage bill alone was more than the entire turnover. Someone has to plug the gap. No other town fan can or wants to do it, but they all expect Evans to do it year on year. If he didn’t, we would go into adminstration, and i doubt this time - with relegation on the horizon and dwindling crowds - we would come through it.

The debt is irrelevant. Evans would write it off tomorrow I suspect if a credible buyer came forward and offers him £1 for the whole club. Evans would immediately be millions better off.


So can we now stop the myth that MM was some sort of miracle worker, he chose to use the budget on higher wages and loan fees , the loss shows that.

His dire style of football drove the fans away and he didn't give a flying one for the cups, Both of which would have brought in further revenue.

You can also see why ME would have bought into PH bringing in lower league players, lower wages, if the right ones are chosen then they become assets and shouldn't lose their value, and if one or 2 work out, then we make a profit.

Unfortunately , we had a monkey choosing the lower league players , limiting himself mainly to players he had managed before with only Edwards and Harrison coming from other league 1 teams he had managed against.

ME is between a rock and a hard place ..
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 22:07 - Dec 4 with 1800 viewsOxford_Blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 22:03 - Dec 4 by Chocorange

So can we now stop the myth that MM was some sort of miracle worker, he chose to use the budget on higher wages and loan fees , the loss shows that.

His dire style of football drove the fans away and he didn't give a flying one for the cups, Both of which would have brought in further revenue.

You can also see why ME would have bought into PH bringing in lower league players, lower wages, if the right ones are chosen then they become assets and shouldn't lose their value, and if one or 2 work out, then we make a profit.

Unfortunately , we had a monkey choosing the lower league players , limiting himself mainly to players he had managed before with only Edwards and Harrison coming from other league 1 teams he had managed against.

ME is between a rock and a hard place ..


Actually it shows that it took those wages to get the club to 12th, but those wages were well below the majority of teams so actually MM did a good job with the limitations he was under.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 22:07 - Dec 4 with 1798 viewsLeagueOne

Equally he made the decision to buy the club. If your selling rubbish your customers go elsewhere - this applies to anything. If you just plug gaps and don't speculate anything you cannot cry when your sales flop and you lose a ton of money.

If he can sell it for half of what he bought it for in the state he's taken it to he will have done well.

It's time to make the best of it.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 22:10 - Dec 4 with 1775 viewsStokieBlue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:31 - Dec 4 by Cheltenham_Blue

It would help if the owner wasn’t taking interest out though wouldn’t it?


Repeatedly posting a falsehood doesn't make it true.

Give it a rest.

SB

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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 22:52 - Dec 4 with 1697 viewsPhilTWTD

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:45 - Dec 4 by Oxford_Blue

It makes no difference.

He’s not “taking interest out”.

It’s interest charged by one company he owns to another.

It’s interest on the money he put in the club. If the club had borrowed the money it would have paid the same interest anyway but been worse off (as it would have had to repay it). The club isn’t repating any interest.

Without Evans we would be in adminstration.


Although to clarify the situation, there isn't interest charged on the loans from his other companies, not since around 2012. There were two reasons for this. One, it's a bit pointless under FFP to reduce the amount you can spend and, two, there are worldwide debt cap rules relating to inter-group loans which meant interest could no longer be added. I'll let someone else who is an accountant explain that as it's late and I've got a headache.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 09:58 - Dec 5 with 1410 viewsRadlett_blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:52 - Dec 4 by Oxford_Blue

Yeah I’ve come to realise what you say is true.

A reasoned and intelligent analysis seems beyond many who are governed by emotion and frustration. The club is a loss making business. Losses of £8.4m are significant. The wage bill alone was more than the entire turnover. Someone has to plug the gap. No other town fan can or wants to do it, but they all expect Evans to do it year on year. If he didn’t, we would go into adminstration, and i doubt this time - with relegation on the horizon and dwindling crowds - we would come through it.

The debt is irrelevant. Evans would write it off tomorrow I suspect if a credible buyer came forward and offers him £1 for the whole club. Evans would immediately be millions better off.


Generally right except that Evans would be a fool to take £1 for Town & he is no fool. If he no longer wants to fund Town's annual losses, he can write off all the debt & probably recoup £20m for a debt free Town.
Of course, he could have slashed the wage bill to such an extent that Town break even, but that would pretty much guarantee relegation...
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:16 - Dec 5 with 1381 viewsSwansea_Blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 21:45 - Dec 4 by Oxford_Blue

It makes no difference.

He’s not “taking interest out”.

It’s interest charged by one company he owns to another.

It’s interest on the money he put in the club. If the club had borrowed the money it would have paid the same interest anyway but been worse off (as it would have had to repay it). The club isn’t repating any interest.

Without Evans we would be in adminstration.


Without Evans we would more than likely have another owner.

It is possible for owners to not to charge interest on owner loans/financing. It happen and it means the debt on paper would be less. Not by much though. I'm not saying he should - he's got every right to charge interest. But he doesn't have to.

Poll: What player was the poorer of these two

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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:20 - Dec 5 with 1366 viewsRadlett_blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:16 - Dec 5 by Swansea_Blue

Without Evans we would more than likely have another owner.

It is possible for owners to not to charge interest on owner loans/financing. It happen and it means the debt on paper would be less. Not by much though. I'm not saying he should - he's got every right to charge interest. But he doesn't have to.


I think that Evans legally has to charge interest on loans to ITFC or else it isn't technically a loan.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:28 - Dec 5 with 1338 viewsPhilTWTD

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:20 - Dec 5 by Radlett_blue

I think that Evans legally has to charge interest on loans to ITFC or else it isn't technically a loan.


He doesn't. It isn't true that interest is charged on his loans.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:29 - Dec 5 with 1336 viewsOxford_Blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:20 - Dec 5 by Radlett_blue

I think that Evans legally has to charge interest on loans to ITFC or else it isn't technically a loan.


Nope.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:30 - Dec 5 with 1333 viewsSwansea_Blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:20 - Dec 5 by Radlett_blue

I think that Evans legally has to charge interest on loans to ITFC or else it isn't technically a loan.


Edit - ignore that, just seen Phil's reply
[Post edited 5 Dec 2018 10:31]

Poll: What player was the poorer of these two

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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 11:36 - Dec 5 with 1259 viewsOxford_Blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:30 - Dec 5 by Swansea_Blue

Edit - ignore that, just seen Phil's reply
[Post edited 5 Dec 2018 10:31]


Credit cards often charge no interest eg on balance transfers.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 11:38 - Dec 5 with 1248 viewsRadlett_blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 11:36 - Dec 5 by Oxford_Blue

Credit cards often charge no interest eg on balance transfers.


Sure - I thought there might be some tax technicality whereby it made sense for notional interest to be charged.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 12:01 - Dec 5 with 1230 viewsOxford_Blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 10:16 - Dec 5 by Swansea_Blue

Without Evans we would more than likely have another owner.

It is possible for owners to not to charge interest on owner loans/financing. It happen and it means the debt on paper would be less. Not by much though. I'm not saying he should - he's got every right to charge interest. But he doesn't have to.


If we didn’t have another owner, the club would not exist.

The point is who would want to take on a business losing £8.4m a year with no assets of any value?

It isn’t an argument to say “someone” would take over the club. They haven’t. If they would, Evans would sell. I bet he’d let it go for £1.
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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 14:26 - Dec 5 with 1155 viewsKeaneish

When you say failing business, all football clubs bar the odd exception are failing businesses. Millionaires don't get involved in football to make money.

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£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 14:56 - Dec 5 with 1134 viewsRadlett_blue

£8.4m loss pre sales - so who is the “someone” that is going to plug that h on 12:01 - Dec 5 by Oxford_Blue

If we didn’t have another owner, the club would not exist.

The point is who would want to take on a business losing £8.4m a year with no assets of any value?

It isn’t an argument to say “someone” would take over the club. They haven’t. If they would, Evans would sell. I bet he’d let it go for £1.


Apparently Evans did get some offers this year, but they were no more than £20m for a debt free Town so he chose not to sell. So if this is true, the idea he wants out & would sell it for £1 is absurd.
Yes, a new owner would need either to slash the wage bill or else fund annual losses of a few £m.
If Evans was happy to give Town away, he would have cut the wage bill savagely himself. However, he realises that Town in the 2nd tier is worth £20m or so free of debt. Hence, he will be keen to avoid relegation as a Town with an £18m wage bill in tier 3 is a far less appealing prospect to a buyer.
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