| Why is it Cameron's fault ? 12:37 - Dec 12 with 1336 views | yorkshire |
So I expect this will get down voted looking at the majority of posts on here but I am struggling to see why David Cameron gets so much of the blame for the current situation
Obviously he was PM and took us into the referendum so from that point of view the buck stops there - however I believe he did it for the right reasons
Back then the UKIP party was getting a lot of support - both from the out and out right wing and also those disenfranchised by the main two parties. They were promising a lot with very little substance but were gaining votes at a local level and looking like doing very well at national level too
So in DCs mind - and I am sure in the mind of most centralists - it was a case of proving that the country did not want to go in this direction - very similar to the Scotland Independence vote - a remain vote would have pretty much undermined anything that UKIP stated was the will of the people
From then on out it should have been up to all of us that wanted to remain to persuade those planning to vote exit that it would not be a good idea. There is no point in whining now and blaming others - we should have done more - we were all too complacent (something I think that Cameron was very guilty of too)
I know of parents of my friends married to European Nationals that voted for exit - I know a lot of well educated people that fell for all the 'anti-immigrant BS' that the exit-ers were spouting because their kids schools and doctors surgeries were full. We all know plenty of people that were not the ignorant, racist bigots that the left likes to portray as those that voted for exit - but yet we did not do enough - so the blame lies with us as much as anyone else
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| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:38 - Dec 12 with 1324 views | Illinoisblue |
It’s definitely Paul Hurst’s fault. |  |
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| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:41 - Dec 12 with 1310 views | No9 |
To understand why Mr Cameron gets stick you need to go right back to when he was elected as tory leader and plot what he did over the period of time from then to when he resigned.
Look at history not the media | | | |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:45 - Dec 12 with 1285 views | yorkshire |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:41 - Dec 12 by No9 |
To understand why Mr Cameron gets stick you need to go right back to when he was elected as tory leader and plot what he did over the period of time from then to when he resigned.
Look at history not the media |
Personally I thought he was a very good PM - especially working alongside the Lib Dems - that period of government was some of the best this country has had over my lifetime
His legacy has been ruined by the exit vote for sure - but I base my options from history not what I am told by the media - just that my opinions are not always shared by others :-) | | | |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:50 - Dec 12 with 1266 views | No9 |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:45 - Dec 12 by yorkshire |
Personally I thought he was a very good PM - especially working alongside the Lib Dems - that period of government was some of the best this country has had over my lifetime
His legacy has been ruined by the exit vote for sure - but I base my options from history not what I am told by the media - just that my opinions are not always shared by others :-) |
Look how he moved the tory party to the right, soem say adging the far right & certainly his aliances in the EU suggest that.
Then the fact he is reputed to have decimated the tory party membership to under 100k.
& look at the disastrous state he took the country to.
He was never a European (read Steve Hilton) & had planned to leave politics before the end of his term.
His government borrowed more in 5 years than ALL labout chancellors combined etc. etc.
Social mobility stoped and house ownership declined.
None of that was by mistake ALL policy decisions. | | | |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 13:23 - Dec 12 with 1228 views | yorkshire |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:50 - Dec 12 by No9 |
Look how he moved the tory party to the right, soem say adging the far right & certainly his aliances in the EU suggest that.
Then the fact he is reputed to have decimated the tory party membership to under 100k.
& look at the disastrous state he took the country to.
He was never a European (read Steve Hilton) & had planned to leave politics before the end of his term.
His government borrowed more in 5 years than ALL labout chancellors combined etc. etc.
Social mobility stoped and house ownership declined.
None of that was by mistake ALL policy decisions. |
OK - well we see it very differently as I believe he moved the Troy party to the center - just like Blair did with the Labour party
Some would also say he rescued the country from a disastrous state (which was admittedly not all of Brown's making)
He was also pro-European - or at least understood what being part of their membership meant to us
He was planning to leave (in his thoughts) on a high but I don't understand why that is a bad thing ?
And the borrowing was enforced - surely that is normally something that is held against the Tories is that they do not spend money - so you can't have it both ways
I think you are trying to suggest that all Tory politicians set out to make poor people's lives miserable which is garbage - some are absolutely horrible people but you can't tar them all with the same brush - that is the sort of politics that create the tribalism we have today | | | |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 13:31 - Dec 12 with 1207 views | SpruceMoose |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:45 - Dec 12 by yorkshire |
Personally I thought he was a very good PM - especially working alongside the Lib Dems - that period of government was some of the best this country has had over my lifetime
His legacy has been ruined by the exit vote for sure - but I base my options from history not what I am told by the media - just that my opinions are not always shared by others :-) |
I take it you weren't working in the public sector, or poor, sick or disabled during that time period. [Post edited 12 Dec 2018 13:32]
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 13:41 - Dec 12 with 1180 views | Superfrans |
It wasn't just for calling the referendum that Cameron is culpable, it was the arrogance of thinking "Leave" could never win. It's widely documented that Cameron and his inner circle who, having won the referendum in 2011 on electoral systems (the first nationwide referendum in almost 40 years), thought they would be unbeatable again the second time around.
This led them to set up the EU referendum as a simple majority vote. Referendum votes are merely advisory, not legally binding, and it would have been perfectly possible and much more logical to set up the vote as requiring (for instance) a 60% vote in favour of leave for it to be binding. Given the huge impact and bordering on irreversible nature of a departure from the EU, it would have been sensible to require a more convincing victory requirement than a standard general election requires (because it can be overturned just five years later).
Tim Shipman's book on Brexit is well worth a read on all this stuff. |  |
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| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 13:49 - Dec 12 with 1171 views | factual_blue |
He also made the absolutely criminal error of having a referendum requiring a simple, not a two-thirds, majority. The referendum to join required a two-thirds majority. However cameron thought himself clever/lucky. Furthermore the referendum was all about the future of the tory party, not the country. |  |
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| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 14:11 - Dec 12 with 1124 views | Ryorry |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 12:45 - Dec 12 by yorkshire |
Personally I thought he was a very good PM - especially working alongside the Lib Dems - that period of government was some of the best this country has had over my lifetime
His legacy has been ruined by the exit vote for sure - but I base my options from history not what I am told by the media - just that my opinions are not always shared by others :-) |
You haven't read enough history then.
I can't think of a more selfish, self-interested, greedy* & stupid PM, and one who's done such deep & lasting damage to the UK, possibly for decades to come.
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| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 14:29 - Dec 12 with 1090 views | SmithersJones |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 13:49 - Dec 12 by factual_blue |
He also made the absolutely criminal error of having a referendum requiring a simple, not a two-thirds, majority. The referendum to join required a two-thirds majority. However cameron thought himself clever/lucky. Furthermore the referendum was all about the future of the tory party, not the country. |
I think your last point is the key one. His sole focus was winning the election. His calculation was that, without a commitment to a referendum, the right of centre vote would fracture between Tories and UKIP, allowing Labour to come through. Of course we’ll never know what would have happened had he not made that promise. One thing that he missed though (and he wasn’t the only one) was the extent to which UKIP would eat into the Labour vote. It’s possible that without a commitment to a referendum we’d have seen an even bigger UKIP vote but without it actually translating into seats, and therefore a similar overall result. | | | |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 14:40 - Dec 12 with 1071 views | No9 |
| Why is it Cameron's fault ? on 13:23 - Dec 12 by yorkshire |
OK - well we see it very differently as I believe he moved the Troy party to the center - just like Blair did with the Labour party
Some would also say he rescued the country from a disastrous state (which was admittedly not all of Brown's making)
He was also pro-European - or at least understood what being part of their membership meant to us
He was planning to leave (in his thoughts) on a high but I don't understand why that is a bad thing ?
And the borrowing was enforced - surely that is normally something that is held against the Tories is that they do not spend money - so you can't have it both ways
I think you are trying to suggest that all Tory politicians set out to make poor people's lives miserable which is garbage - some are absolutely horrible people but you can't tar them all with the same brush - that is the sort of politics that create the tribalism we have today |
If Mr Cameron had been a good European or a centrist he would not have aligned the tories to some of the worst elemtsnts of RW politics in the EU. The only way he showed any EU thinking was to beg the EU for money for his vanity projects. The legacy of which remain with us.
This year was the 10th annivesary of the bankers crash, it was world wide not just in the UK.
Borrwoing when used to good efeect in a time wheninterest rates are low is not necessarily a bad thing but to borrow to make tax concessions to foreign organisations and the wealthy isn't a good idea.
You may think I am suggesting all tory politicians set out to make people poorer, I suggest you look at tory records since the end of the 60's and conside what went wrong with tory thinking unless it was their policies that created the problems. | | | |
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