| Why aren't the air ambulances. 20:34 - Dec 15 with 5188 views | Pecker |
Funded through the NHS ? They are all supported by charity donations. This is ridiculous in our country surely. [Post edited 15 Dec 2018 20:34]
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 20:42 - Dec 15 with 4619 views | homer_123 |
Stop the negativity and just enjoy the win! |  |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 20:46 - Dec 15 with 4602 views | jjblue84 |
Because we shouldn’t need them? Maybe for mountain injuries. Oh, hang on... |  | | |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 20:49 - Dec 15 with 4591 views | Pecker |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 20:42 - Dec 15 by homer_123 |
Stop the negativity and just enjoy the win! |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 21:36 - Dec 15 with 4560 views | xrayspecs |
There have been various published studies that show that they are very expensive and in most cases do not change patient outcome versus ambulance. Sad reality is that most of those airlifted have a very poor prognosis and the intervention of the helicopter does not make sufficient difference to make the investment worthwhile.
The NHS has decided to invest those monies elsewhere. [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 14:14]
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 22:04 - Dec 15 with 4499 views | ElderGrizzly |
It’s ok. Imagine how many will be funded by the £350m a week after March 29th! Can’t wait... |  | | |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 06:45 - Dec 16 with 4397 views | TractorWood |
This is the problem though isn't it. People have this emotional attachment to the NHS regardless of whether there is any evidence of being beneficial or not.
Helicopters are millions to buy and about £1m to run per year and as someone says above from studies all over the world there is very little evidence to suggest they offer value for money in terms of transfer times, estimated survival rates and them being used in appropriate situations ie when head trauma and burn cases have used helicopters it is often detrimental to the patient. This is also before considering the questionable safety record of helicopters.
Clearly there is more studies needed but the NHS seem to have this bang on. Also, for the Lake District or Highlands they are absolutely appropriate. |  |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 08:29 - Dec 16 with 4345 views | Benters2 |
I make you right.
Grt Bentley is famed for having a motorbike meeting in the warmer months on the world famous green.
The bikers favourite charity is the air ambulance,and every year many thousands of pounds are raised for the air ambulance.
This year was the 20th anniversary of the bike meetings and the air ambulance did a salute to the bikers,which was nice.
Rule Britannia. | | | |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 10:37 - Dec 16 with 4293 views | Ryorry |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 06:45 - Dec 16 by TractorWood |
This is the problem though isn't it. People have this emotional attachment to the NHS regardless of whether there is any evidence of being beneficial or not.
Helicopters are millions to buy and about £1m to run per year and as someone says above from studies all over the world there is very little evidence to suggest they offer value for money in terms of transfer times, estimated survival rates and them being used in appropriate situations ie when head trauma and burn cases have used helicopters it is often detrimental to the patient. This is also before considering the questionable safety record of helicopters.
Clearly there is more studies needed but the NHS seem to have this bang on. Also, for the Lake District or Highlands they are absolutely appropriate. |
And North Yorkshire + Lake District I'd suggest. |  |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 10:47 - Dec 16 with 4284 views | Radlett_blue |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 21:36 - Dec 15 by xrayspecs |
There have been various published studies that show that they are very expensive and in most cases do not change patient outcome versus ambulance. Sad reality is that most of those airlifted have a very poor prognosis and the intervention of the helicopter does not make sufficient difference to make the investment worthwhile.
The NHS has decided to invest those monies elsewhere. [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 14:14]
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A guy whom I knew vaguely collapsed on a golf course last year and an air ambulance landed, plus two ordinary ambulances plus, most bizarrely of all, two police cars. And we keep getting told that the police need more manpower and money!
Note - I don't think they are over funded, just that they could manage their existing resources far better! [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 10:52]
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 11:48 - Dec 16 with 4249 views | Ryorry |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 10:47 - Dec 16 by Radlett_blue |
A guy whom I knew vaguely collapsed on a golf course last year and an air ambulance landed, plus two ordinary ambulances plus, most bizarrely of all, two police cars. And we keep getting told that the police need more manpower and money!
Note - I don't think they are over funded, just that they could manage their existing resources far better! [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 10:52]
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That's ridiculous!
I suppose we have to accept the stats & cost-effectiveness these days for populated areas in good weather conditions, but in N. Yorks, Cumbria & other rural areas, there's a reason the Air Ambulance is one of, if not the best supported charities - obviously no-one wants people being left to die simply because roads may be impassable due to weather, or there simply aren't any nearby roads at all. We had freezing rain yesterday afternoon/evening/night, which meant that basically you couldn't put a foot or a tyre on any surface except grass or leaves without sliding unceremoniously arse over t1t. Even if North Yorks had a mind to salt our little C road (as if) it would have been pointless as it would have been washed away within minutes. | |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 12:02 - Dec 16 with 4229 views | MedwayTractor |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 21:36 - Dec 15 by xrayspecs |
There have been various published studies that show that they are very expensive and in most cases do not change patient outcome versus ambulance. Sad reality is that most of those airlifted have a very poor prognosis and the intervention of the helicopter does not make sufficient difference to make the investment worthwhile.
The NHS has decided to invest those monies elsewhere. [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 14:14]
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Not sure that I agree with your view about the usefulness of the air ambulance.
Some years ago, a friend was biking off-road (push bike that is), deep in the woods, ie no roads, not even a footpath. He crashed (you've all seen those clips on You've Been Framed) and broke his back. He was in his mid 20's and is in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, but said that he would have died but for the helicopter getting him to hospital. |  |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 12:20 - Dec 16 with 4215 views | xrayspecs |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 12:02 - Dec 16 by MedwayTractor |
Not sure that I agree with your view about the usefulness of the air ambulance.
Some years ago, a friend was biking off-road (push bike that is), deep in the woods, ie no roads, not even a footpath. He crashed (you've all seen those clips on You've Been Framed) and broke his back. He was in his mid 20's and is in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, but said that he would have died but for the helicopter getting him to hospital. |
There will always be instances when they do make a difference and the comments about rural communities is a good one. The research that has been published though concludes that the benefits that are gained do not justify the additional costs.
On a related note, we should be investing more to prevent ill health - tackling poor lifestyle choices that lead to obesity, drug and alcohol dependence - plus earlier detection of diseases such as cancer. That is where we can have the biggest health impact. [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 12:21]
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| on 12:25 - Dec 16 with 4196 views | _ |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 12:37 - Dec 16 with 4166 views | jeera |
The mismanagement of funds is horrifying isn't it?
Here is a thread, probably with realistic posts outlining reasons why cash is better spent elsewhere than a potentially life-saving service, whilst in other news, 'we' wasted a few hundred thousand on some rusty water-cannons no one wanted, millions thrown at Capita, and the like, on army recruitment campaigns that were worthless, and billions on a supposed upgrade of the NHS IT system, doomed to failure.
There's no realistic money for helicopters, fine, but where is the accountability for all this other wastage?
I despair. |  |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 14:05 - Dec 16 with 4134 views | Ryorry |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 12:20 - Dec 16 by xrayspecs |
There will always be instances when they do make a difference and the comments about rural communities is a good one. The research that has been published though concludes that the benefits that are gained do not justify the additional costs.
On a related note, we should be investing more to prevent ill health - tackling poor lifestyle choices that lead to obesity, drug and alcohol dependence - plus earlier detection of diseases such as cancer. That is where we can have the biggest health impact. [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 12:21]
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"tackling poor lifestyle choices that lead to obesity"
So people go biking, walking, riding etc off-road like MedwayTractor's friend, have serious accidents incurring life-threatening injuries, and no normal ambulance can get to them ..!
I agree with you basically btw, just playing devil's advocate to underline nothing's ever clear-cut. | |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 14:16 - Dec 16 with 4122 views | xrayspecs |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 14:05 - Dec 16 by Ryorry |
"tackling poor lifestyle choices that lead to obesity"
So people go biking, walking, riding etc off-road like MedwayTractor's friend, have serious accidents incurring life-threatening injuries, and no normal ambulance can get to them ..!
I agree with you basically btw, just playing devil's advocate to underline nothing's ever clear-cut. |
I think you are being deliberately obtuse.
You know full well the points I am making. | | | |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 14:23 - Dec 16 with 4110 views | Ryorry |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 14:16 - Dec 16 by xrayspecs |
I think you are being deliberately obtuse.
You know full well the points I am making. |
Guess you didn't read this part of my post then -
"I agree with you basically btw, just playing devil's advocate to underline nothing's ever clear-cut." | |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 14:39 - Dec 16 with 4087 views | TractorWood |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 12:37 - Dec 16 by jeera |
The mismanagement of funds is horrifying isn't it?
Here is a thread, probably with realistic posts outlining reasons why cash is better spent elsewhere than a potentially life-saving service, whilst in other news, 'we' wasted a few hundred thousand on some rusty water-cannons no one wanted, millions thrown at Capita, and the like, on army recruitment campaigns that were worthless, and billions on a supposed upgrade of the NHS IT system, doomed to failure.
There's no realistic money for helicopters, fine, but where is the accountability for all this other wastage?
I despair. |
HS2, Crossrail. Heathrow expansion has taken a decade to do nothing. Even the Cambridge guided busway was £120m+ over budget and is a glorified bumper car track. | |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 16:44 - Dec 16 with 4025 views | Pecker |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 06:45 - Dec 16 by TractorWood |
This is the problem though isn't it. People have this emotional attachment to the NHS regardless of whether there is any evidence of being beneficial or not.
Helicopters are millions to buy and about £1m to run per year and as someone says above from studies all over the world there is very little evidence to suggest they offer value for money in terms of transfer times, estimated survival rates and them being used in appropriate situations ie when head trauma and burn cases have used helicopters it is often detrimental to the patient. This is also before considering the questionable safety record of helicopters.
Clearly there is more studies needed but the NHS seem to have this bang on. Also, for the Lake District or Highlands they are absolutely appropriate. |
There must be a need for them, otherwise why do we have them. I can see loads of other things that we waste money on, yet a life saving service has to rely on donations. I hope you never need one. | | | |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 17:07 - Dec 16 with 4007 views | TractorWood |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 16:44 - Dec 16 by Pecker |
There must be a need for them, otherwise why do we have them. I can see loads of other things that we waste money on, yet a life saving service has to rely on donations. I hope you never need one. |
I think you've misinterpreted me objectively discussing the merits of a topic you brought up using research and long term studies as a lack of appreciation for the life saving work our NHS do. Which is certainly something I appreciate and acknowledge.
Your logic appears too binary. There are huge grey areas and not every facet of life can be defined as something we need and something we don't need. | |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 17:27 - Dec 16 with 3987 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Without being an expert, I think there are a couple of things here:
First, the NHS saw different priorities to spend their funds on. It is like the issue of should all life-saving drugs be available on prescription on the NHS when some cancer drugs can cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. When you then factor in that the public are prepared to fund them through charity donations it becomes a no-brainer. Why spend NHS resources on them when they will end up being funded anyway?
The second is that no ambulances are owned and run by the NHS anyway (I believe). They are owned and run by private companies that the NHS then contract and pay for. It is saving on infrastructure costs (short term savings) at the expense of running costs (long-term expenditure). It is where capitalism thrives making profit out of public services. |  |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 18:05 - Dec 16 with 3956 views | Pecker |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 17:07 - Dec 16 by TractorWood |
I think you've misinterpreted me objectively discussing the merits of a topic you brought up using research and long term studies as a lack of appreciation for the life saving work our NHS do. Which is certainly something I appreciate and acknowledge.
Your logic appears too binary. There are huge grey areas and not every facet of life can be defined as something we need and something we don't need. |
A topic you obviously disagree with. My wife was watching something on the East Anglian air ambulance last night and I was stunned to here them say it is only funded by charitable donations. I was just asking a question. As it is called an air ambulance, I assumed, obviously wrongly, that it would fall into the NHS basket of funding. Now that I know it is not making ( according to you ) any difference, I will not give if asked. | | | |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 19:34 - Dec 16 with 3900 views | Ryorry |
| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 18:05 - Dec 16 by Pecker |
A topic you obviously disagree with. My wife was watching something on the East Anglian air ambulance last night and I was stunned to here them say it is only funded by charitable donations. I was just asking a question. As it is called an air ambulance, I assumed, obviously wrongly, that it would fall into the NHS basket of funding. Now that I know it is not making ( according to you ) any difference, I will not give if asked. |
Err, it wasn't Tractorwood who said that it didn't make any difference ... | |
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| Why aren't the air ambulances. on 20:14 - Dec 16 with 3857 views | caught-in-limbo |
This is my favourite:
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