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Lambert 17:04 - Jan 1 with 15601 viewsnshearman1

Are we allowed to start criticising Lambert yet? He's said and done a lot of good things, but he's stuck with this defence pretty much throughout until he realised Knudsen was off, not tried any real alternatives or alternative formations, stuck with Gerken, and fiddled about with other positions to no avail. Today he draws attention to himself ranting on the touchline, looks like he panicked in taking off Chalobah, and fails to hold what we had or even build on it. Yes, the squad generally is poor, but this is actually no better than Hurst, there has been no significant improvement under PL after something like 11 games.
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Lambert on 17:37 - Jan 1 with 5225 viewsfloridaboy

Lambert on 17:33 - Jan 1 by Trequartista

I genuinely think that had we not sacked Hurst we would now have a few more points than we would by not sacking him. That's not to say Lambert is not going to be the better long-term bet once he gets his own players in, but given the players we have, one man has done better than the other with the same personnel


Seriously! I think if Hurst and his thuggish side kick had still been here we would have even less points then those we currently have.

Plus Hurst would have played his signings to the detriment of Downes, Lankester and Dozzell!
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Lambert on 17:54 - Jan 1 with 5171 viewsnshearman1

Lambert on 17:37 - Jan 1 by floridaboy

Seriously! I think if Hurst and his thuggish side kick had still been here we would have even less points then those we currently have.

Plus Hurst would have played his signings to the detriment of Downes, Lankester and Dozzell!


Thanks to all those who have responded, good and bad, I must admit it was written in the heat of the moment. I totally accept that Lambert is the least to blame. Evans is at the top, we are in this position after a decade of his ownership and in general the managerial choices and financial strategies, veering from one extreme to the other, have been inept to say the least. It's still my view that Mick lost the plot, went stale, played dire football and contributed significantly to a toxic atmosphere at PR that actually doesn't exist now. Hurst was abysmal. Lambert is trying to sort out the mess. I just think, most particularly in defence, that after 11 or so games, with heads going down and debacles the only consistency, he should have tried looking at different options, notably Nsiala and Donacien, who have been completely tarred with the Hurst brush. And different formations, the 3-5-2 has worked at times in the past. It all feels very rigid, and waiting for the January window simply not an option as we're already well in the mire now.
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Lambert on 18:00 - Jan 1 with 5159 viewsTrequartista

Lambert on 17:37 - Jan 1 by floridaboy

Seriously! I think if Hurst and his thuggish side kick had still been here we would have even less points then those we currently have.

Plus Hurst would have played his signings to the detriment of Downes, Lankester and Dozzell!


His signings as in Nolan, Jackson, Harrison, Edwards have been playing, the ones that haven't Donacien and Nsiala have been removed from a defence that has got worse.

Spence has made several mistakes that have led to goals, which arguably Donacien wouldn't have done.

We have thrown away 6 points against Bristol and Millwall by the opposition bringing on a battering ram at half-time - i can't help thinking Nsiala would have done better against them.

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Lambert on 19:03 - Jan 1 with 5120 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lambert on 17:36 - Jan 1 by Herbivore

Lolz.


What’s so funny about that? Hurst was averaging more points per game having had a harder set of fixtures, so reasonable to believe we may have gained more points had he stayed

Clearly he had to go and the damage done to the squad is all on him, but the idea that Lambert couldn’t possibly have done better so far is ridiculous. Results under him have been dire so far - even more so than under Hurst

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Lambert on 19:06 - Jan 1 with 5114 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lambert on 17:34 - Jan 1 by jasondozzell

Absolute rubbish. Lambert has been brilliant. Can have no complaints with him. Has lifted heads, boosted morale and got team playing some really good football. He has inherited a mess and an impossible situation. Ridiculous to be criticising him of all people. We have to hope he stays next season as he will get us out of league one.


‘Brilliant’

He’s won 1 game in 11

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Lambert on 19:10 - Jan 1 with 5108 viewsreusersfreekicks

Lambert on 17:33 - Jan 1 by Trequartista

I genuinely think that had we not sacked Hurst we would now have a few more points than we would by not sacking him. That's not to say Lambert is not going to be the better long-term bet once he gets his own players in, but given the players we have, one man has done better than the other with the same personnel


Streuth.
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Lambert on 19:12 - Jan 1 with 5103 viewsLankHenners

Lambert on 19:03 - Jan 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

What’s so funny about that? Hurst was averaging more points per game having had a harder set of fixtures, so reasonable to believe we may have gained more points had he stayed

Clearly he had to go and the damage done to the squad is all on him, but the idea that Lambert couldn’t possibly have done better so far is ridiculous. Results under him have been dire so far - even more so than under Hurst


Or got even worse? No-one can say for certain what would have happened, though simply saying ‘Hurst averaged more points’ etc. completely removes any and all context from the argument.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Lambert on 19:30 - Jan 1 with 5063 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lambert on 19:12 - Jan 1 by LankHenners

Or got even worse? No-one can say for certain what would have happened, though simply saying ‘Hurst averaged more points’ etc. completely removes any and all context from the argument.


What context would you like to apply?

Of course we don’t know how things would have gone had we stuck with Hurst or gone with AN Other. But Hurst averaged 0.57ppg from his 14 games, compared to 0.55ppg for Lambert. And Hurst’s results were cr*p throughout so it’s not like Hurst was sacked because results dropped off a cliff - his last 5 games actually brought in 0.8ppg

So, it really isn’t an outlandish view to think results may have been better in the short term under Hurst. Obviously he had to go - and the hope remains that Lambert is able to sort things out in January, but again it remains true that results so far have been dire

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Lambert on 19:51 - Jan 1 with 5036 viewsHerbivore

Lambert on 19:03 - Jan 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

What’s so funny about that? Hurst was averaging more points per game having had a harder set of fixtures, so reasonable to believe we may have gained more points had he stayed

Clearly he had to go and the damage done to the squad is all on him, but the idea that Lambert couldn’t possibly have done better so far is ridiculous. Results under him have been dire so far - even more so than under Hurst


Look at the trajectory under Hurst. Results weren't horrific early on and there was some promise but we quickly went on to a downward trajectory that he showed no signs of being able to arrest. The whole points per game thing is a little disingenuous, they haven't inherited comparable situations.

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Lambert on 19:56 - Jan 1 with 5027 viewsMullet

I think any tangible things Lambert has done wrong are so far down the list what's the point?

Evans, Hurst, Doig, removing Mick all carry the can far more and all had a huge bearing on what Lambert was left with.

I don't think you can do so without also accepting that losing Skuse when the squad was so fragile and unbalanced has probably sunk us. The ripples out from that injury are being felt every game we slip further away.

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Lambert on 19:58 - Jan 1 with 5011 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lambert on 19:51 - Jan 1 by Herbivore

Look at the trajectory under Hurst. Results weren't horrific early on and there was some promise but we quickly went on to a downward trajectory that he showed no signs of being able to arrest. The whole points per game thing is a little disingenuous, they haven't inherited comparable situations.


We averaged more points in Hurst’s last 5 games than we did across his whole reign

He went because results were sh*t from the get go, not because we were falling off a cliff

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Lambert on 19:59 - Jan 1 with 5010 viewsLankHenners

Lambert on 19:30 - Jan 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

What context would you like to apply?

Of course we don’t know how things would have gone had we stuck with Hurst or gone with AN Other. But Hurst averaged 0.57ppg from his 14 games, compared to 0.55ppg for Lambert. And Hurst’s results were cr*p throughout so it’s not like Hurst was sacked because results dropped off a cliff - his last 5 games actually brought in 0.8ppg

So, it really isn’t an outlandish view to think results may have been better in the short term under Hurst. Obviously he had to go - and the hope remains that Lambert is able to sort things out in January, but again it remains true that results so far have been dire


Oh just minor things like Hurst creating that side which would have had confidence and belief at the start of the season whereas Lambert’s had to inherit that crap squad in a bad state.

Not really sure what your overall point is though, other than to say that results are still bad, which is a bit well duh.

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Lambert on 20:01 - Jan 1 with 4997 viewsPJH

Lambert on 19:03 - Jan 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

What’s so funny about that? Hurst was averaging more points per game having had a harder set of fixtures, so reasonable to believe we may have gained more points had he stayed

Clearly he had to go and the damage done to the squad is all on him, but the idea that Lambert couldn’t possibly have done better so far is ridiculous. Results under him have been dire so far - even more so than under Hurst


Not sure about Hurst having a harder set of fixtures because a lot of the fixtures at the start of the season are those that would have been chosen if you could handpick the order that you wanted to play games.
Admittedly on paper several of PL's games have been ones that you should expect to win but our seasons start was pretty easy fixture wise.
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(No subject) (n/t) on 20:04 - Jan 1 with 4982 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lambert on 19:59 - Jan 1 by LankHenners

Oh just minor things like Hurst creating that side which would have had confidence and belief at the start of the season whereas Lambert’s had to inherit that crap squad in a bad state.

Not really sure what your overall point is though, other than to say that results are still bad, which is a bit well duh.


As posted though - our form was actually better in Hurst’s last 5 games than first 5

Surely it’s part of Lamberts job to lift confidence anyway?
[Post edited 1 Jan 2019 20:05]

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Lambert on 20:06 - Jan 1 with 4970 viewswarkthisway

Agreed - talks a good game - but results no better than Hurst - another overpaid bluffer

bentnkuqi

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Lambert on 20:07 - Jan 1 with 4969 viewsSuperfrans

Chalobah was injured wasn’t he? Has something been said to the contrary?

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Lambert on 20:10 - Jan 1 with 4956 viewsHerbivore

Lambert on 19:58 - Jan 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

We averaged more points in Hurst’s last 5 games than we did across his whole reign

He went because results were sh*t from the get go, not because we were falling off a cliff


That Swansea game, which let's be real was an anomaly, masks what was a very obvious decline. His last 4 home games in charge included 7 of the worst 8 halves of football from Town that I've seen at PR since the dark days at the end of Jewell's rein. Performances were declining, we looked terrible. For all that results have remained dire we have at least looked closer to being a semi capable side. For much of Hurst's time we were irredeemably abject. Lambert inherited the worst Town side I've ever seen and he's made them slightly better even if the points per game stat doesn't back that up, which it won't because it's devoid of context or nuance.

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(No subject) (n/t) on 20:12 - Jan 1 with 4952 viewsLankHenners

(No subject) (n/t) on 20:04 - Jan 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

As posted though - our form was actually better in Hurst’s last 5 games than first 5

Surely it’s part of Lamberts job to lift confidence anyway?
[Post edited 1 Jan 2019 20:05]


What’s that got to do with anything? He was slightly less sh1t than he had been. Great.

I think he’s done his best on that from but it’s a hard cycle to get out of when you keep losing games. The way you’re going on it’s as if you think Lambert should have come in, waved a magic wand and sorted all our problems.

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(No subject) (n/t) on 20:12 - Jan 1 with 4948 viewsHerbivore

(No subject) (n/t) on 20:04 - Jan 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

As posted though - our form was actually better in Hurst’s last 5 games than first 5

Surely it’s part of Lamberts job to lift confidence anyway?
[Post edited 1 Jan 2019 20:05]


You're usually a very sensible poster, you need to let go of the gloss of the freak win at Swansea. We were utterly, utterly abject towards the end of Hurst's rein.
[Post edited 1 Jan 2019 20:13]

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Lambert on 20:13 - Jan 1 with 4943 viewsRadlett_blue

Lambert on 20:01 - Jan 1 by PJH

Not sure about Hurst having a harder set of fixtures because a lot of the fixtures at the start of the season are those that would have been chosen if you could handpick the order that you wanted to play games.
Admittedly on paper several of PL's games have been ones that you should expect to win but our seasons start was pretty easy fixture wise.


Let's just keep it simple. Town are as near incapable of winning a football game under Lambert as we were under Hurst. While more of that is down to Hurst's complete inability to sign players who were up to this level 7 the football has been more attractive, it's also a sign that Lambert has none of the Mick-like ability to get teams to grind out results.
Lambert may still be the right manager to develop a young team into one which can get us back into the 2nd tier & play with confidence.

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Lambert on 20:17 - Jan 1 with 4928 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lambert on 20:01 - Jan 1 by PJH

Not sure about Hurst having a harder set of fixtures because a lot of the fixtures at the start of the season are those that would have been chosen if you could handpick the order that you wanted to play games.
Admittedly on paper several of PL's games have been ones that you should expect to win but our seasons start was pretty easy fixture wise.


Hurst’s 14 league games came against teams with an average position of 11th in the table. Lamberts 11 have come against teams with an average position of 12th

50% of Hursts games were at home. 55% of Lamberts have been at home
[Post edited 1 Jan 2019 20:19]

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Lambert on 20:17 - Jan 1 with 4926 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lambert on 20:10 - Jan 1 by Herbivore

That Swansea game, which let's be real was an anomaly, masks what was a very obvious decline. His last 4 home games in charge included 7 of the worst 8 halves of football from Town that I've seen at PR since the dark days at the end of Jewell's rein. Performances were declining, we looked terrible. For all that results have remained dire we have at least looked closer to being a semi capable side. For much of Hurst's time we were irredeemably abject. Lambert inherited the worst Town side I've ever seen and he's made them slightly better even if the points per game stat doesn't back that up, which it won't because it's devoid of context or nuance.


Obviously we get worse if you take away games we actually won

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(No subject) (n/t) on 20:18 - Jan 1 with 4921 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

(No subject) (n/t) on 20:12 - Jan 1 by LankHenners

What’s that got to do with anything? He was slightly less sh1t than he had been. Great.

I think he’s done his best on that from but it’s a hard cycle to get out of when you keep losing games. The way you’re going on it’s as if you think Lambert should have come in, waved a magic wand and sorted all our problems.


No, but it’s not unreasonable to think we may have seen some improvement, surely? After all - the narrative at the time of the change was that we needed to make it then given the run of fixtures coming up

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Lambert on 20:20 - Jan 1 with 4912 viewsgt81

Another factor is that as the games count down Lambert has to set the team up to try and win, draws aren't going to do it. But in doing so it ruthlessly exposes every one of this teams' weaknesses.

The best I hoped for was to keep in touch with the pack above us but we're just not good enough.
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Lambert on 20:20 - Jan 1 with 4911 viewspointofblue

Lambert on 19:51 - Jan 1 by Herbivore

Look at the trajectory under Hurst. Results weren't horrific early on and there was some promise but we quickly went on to a downward trajectory that he showed no signs of being able to arrest. The whole points per game thing is a little disingenuous, they haven't inherited comparable situations.


To me Hurst's reign and Lambert's have similarities - a reasonable start with a promising draw which left questions to ask, an unlucky away result where we probably deserved better and then it starts to fall away; under Lambert more dramatically than it did with Hurst considering we followed Blackburn and Rotherham up with a draw at Villa and, after Derby, an unfdortunate defeat at Wednesday thanks to a red card.

Indeed, if Hurst hadn't pushed the panic button against Norwich and abandoned what seemed to be a clear plan up to that point, which wasn't quite working out, he may still be here now. The Hull result seemed to snowball matters with only first half performances against Brentford and Birmingham as bright spots.

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