| Generally... is there any point in loans... 19:55 - Jan 6 with 4157 views | JoHnNnY |
Unless there’s a possibly and definite option to buy at the end of the loan?
PL has rightly stated, long term no, they are not your playes, and your back to square one when they go back. You have no team of your own.
Situation 1.. You have loans to improve your team/squad and you survive relegation. This has been our way of doing things for a few years and proves the point of no progression - and also in our case, stops the youngsters developing in numbers and getting their chance to progress with ITFC.
Situation 2.. You get promoted, and your team is immediately weakened when the players go back.. could end up in relegation. (Would suit ME as he’d get to pocket parachute payments and make money from the club that way.)
Situation 3.. You get loans and sell your best academy produce to make money. Get relegated and start all over again even weaker. Result, demise of a club.
For me loans should only used to bolster numbers for cover, not 1st team. But again, who would loan out players to sit on the bench?..... oh...... we do.
Any other thoughts?
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 19:57 - Jan 6 with 4141 views | jas0999 |
There is no point of having more than five. We have four. |  | | |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 19:59 - Jan 6 with 4129 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 19:57 - Jan 6 by jas0999 |
There is no point of having more than five. We have four. |
... and Lambert still wants another 4 players. |  |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:02 - Jan 6 with 4123 views | JoHnNnY |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 19:59 - Jan 6 by Kieran_Knows |
... and Lambert still wants another 4 players. |
He has stated it shouldn’t be the policy - this is just a fast repair job to see IF we can fix something how the club policy is as it stands? | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:03 - Jan 6 with 4116 views | positivity |
-loans can be great for the loaning team
-they can be good in a try before you buy fashion (eg mcgoldrick)
-i've appreciated getting the chance to see talent beyond our pockets like dos santos/fraser/lawrence/celina
but apart from that i agree with you, tends to distort the market further with rich teams getting the first dibs on talent from the top teams.
pl has railed against this, then bought in 2 loanees at the first opportunity with promises of more to come, which is typical... | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:17 - Jan 6 with 4072 views | JoHnNnY |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:03 - Jan 6 by positivity |
-loans can be great for the loaning team
-they can be good in a try before you buy fashion (eg mcgoldrick)
-i've appreciated getting the chance to see talent beyond our pockets like dos santos/fraser/lawrence/celina
but apart from that i agree with you, tends to distort the market further with rich teams getting the first dibs on talent from the top teams.
pl has railed against this, then bought in 2 loanees at the first opportunity with promises of more to come, which is typical... |
Yes, but like I said above - surely it’s his only option to improve the squad now as nobody would commit permanent until they are prepared to play in League 1... plus you can’t produce a contract with any real length not knowing your wage pot? | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:19 - Jan 6 with 4066 views | Ely_Blue |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:17 - Jan 6 by JoHnNnY |
Yes, but like I said above - surely it’s his only option to improve the squad now as nobody would commit permanent until they are prepared to play in League 1... plus you can’t produce a contract with any real length not knowing your wage pot? |
This exactly sums things up at the moment |  |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:21 - Jan 6 with 4058 views | jas0999 |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:02 - Jan 6 by JoHnNnY |
He has stated it shouldn’t be the policy - this is just a fast repair job to see IF we can fix something how the club policy is as it stands? |
No one disagrees. But if he signs four more loans that’s eight. We can select five. | | | |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:23 - Jan 6 with 4052 views | ANNA3ROA |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 19:59 - Jan 6 by Kieran_Knows |
... and Lambert still wants another 4 players. |
Loans have been Ipswich downfall for last 10 seasons but no one seems to agree ? Now P.L. has remark on this which to me is great news I hope. |  | | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:23 - Jan 6 with 4047 views | bournemouthblue |
Not that it's happened for a long time but a quality loanee is signable if you are promoted to the Premier League
I can't imagine we'd have got Ryan Fraser for example but we'd certainly have been able to secure Celina and perhaps going further back we may have lured Gio etc |  |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:26 - Jan 6 with 4030 views | bontcho |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:17 - Jan 6 by JoHnNnY |
Yes, but like I said above - surely it’s his only option to improve the squad now as nobody would commit permanent until they are prepared to play in League 1... plus you can’t produce a contract with any real length not knowing your wage pot? |
The problem here has been a reliance on loans. If you have a couple of loanees to add a bit of gold dust (Lawrence, Fraser) I get that or even perhaps a “let’s have a look first” but not 5 or 6 guys not much/no better than your current squad. For me that’s been one of our problems. I’d get rid of Pennington and Chalobah because I don’t see they fit in either category (Chalobah not gold dust territory for me, but will be a good player I reckon). |  |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:33 - Jan 6 with 4008 views | JoHnNnY |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 20:26 - Jan 6 by bontcho |
The problem here has been a reliance on loans. If you have a couple of loanees to add a bit of gold dust (Lawrence, Fraser) I get that or even perhaps a “let’s have a look first” but not 5 or 6 guys not much/no better than your current squad. For me that’s been one of our problems. I’d get rid of Pennington and Chalobah because I don’t see they fit in either category (Chalobah not gold dust territory for me, but will be a good player I reckon). |
I guess another fair comment would be the loans haven’t been any worse than our own longer serving players... Chambers, Spence, Bart, Gerks, Knudsen.. even Sears to a point haven’t really delivered at all.
I actually thought Pennington was one of the better signings this season maybe shows how poor everyone else has been. [Post edited 6 Jan 2019 20:36]
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 21:12 - Jan 6 with 3946 views | Guthrum |
If you get promoted, losing loan players doesn't matter. The influx of TV money is such that you can afford to buy them (or better).
If budgets are limited, loans allow you to seed the squad with one or two men of better quality than you can afford to buy (or that are likely to be just emerging from your academy). That is how the system should be used. Not to pack the squad with fairly average bodies.
However, our current situation is somewhat different, being caught with a deficient team and a real risk of relegation. We need an injection of experience in several key positions, rather than a leavening of exceptional talent into an already functioning squad. |  |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 21:24 - Jan 6 with 3918 views | Darth_Koont |
It's perfect right now. We can get in players we couldn't otherwise afford, especially with the division we'll likely be playing in next season. |  |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 23:11 - Jan 6 with 3853 views | JoHnNnY |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 21:24 - Jan 6 by Darth_Koont |
It's perfect right now. We can get in players we couldn't otherwise afford, especially with the division we'll likely be playing in next season. |
Also loans from the Prem very rarely go to League 1 I’m thinking?... so next year if we do get loans they’d be the reserves of teams we are playing now.
How we have fallen. | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 23:14 - Jan 6 with 3845 views | StokieBlue |
Situation 2 is a pointless dig at ME.
The constant implication that he is making money from the club is getting tiresome. It's clearly not the case, it's costing him a fortune for essentially zero return.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 00:13 - Jan 7 with 3796 views | JoHnNnY |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 23:14 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
Situation 2 is a pointless dig at ME.
The constant implication that he is making money from the club is getting tiresome. It's clearly not the case, it's costing him a fortune for essentially zero return.
SB |
Ok. Ignore the bracketed personal opinion of my belief what would happen.
Then Situation 2 is a possible eventuality. | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 00:18 - Jan 7 with 3792 views | JoHnNnY |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 00:13 - Jan 7 by JoHnNnY |
Ok. Ignore the bracketed personal opinion of my belief what would happen.
Then Situation 2 is a possible eventuality. |
Could I ask?.... if we got to Prem and got relegated.. do you think that reported 1st year 40m would be put back into the club?? [Post edited 7 Jan 2019 0:19]
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 01:35 - Jan 7 with 3754 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
This whole anti-loan mentality is completely out of touch with the modern game - pretty much every side in the Championship is augmenting their squad via this route
Leeds have Jack Harrison, Izzy Brown and Lewis Baker. Norwich Rhodes and Passlack. Sheffield United’s goalie is a Man U loan with others in the squad. Derby spent £10m+ on strikers and yet their joint top and 3rd top scorers are both loans. It’s just the nature of the beast these days |  |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 08:02 - Jan 7 with 3690 views | Steve_M |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 01:35 - Jan 7 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
This whole anti-loan mentality is completely out of touch with the modern game - pretty much every side in the Championship is augmenting their squad via this route
Leeds have Jack Harrison, Izzy Brown and Lewis Baker. Norwich Rhodes and Passlack. Sheffield United’s goalie is a Man U loan with others in the squad. Derby spent £10m+ on strikers and yet their joint top and 3rd top scorers are both loans. It’s just the nature of the beast these days |
Yep, whilst Premier League clubs can afford to hoover up nearly every young player going then it's going to persist. The best loans allow us to add very good players - Fraser, Lawrence, Celina - that we would otherwise not be able to afford. The contrast with a winger we could afford in Edwards is telling. |  |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 08:04 - Jan 7 with 3688 views | bontcho |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 01:35 - Jan 7 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
This whole anti-loan mentality is completely out of touch with the modern game - pretty much every side in the Championship is augmenting their squad via this route
Leeds have Jack Harrison, Izzy Brown and Lewis Baker. Norwich Rhodes and Passlack. Sheffield United’s goalie is a Man U loan with others in the squad. Derby spent £10m+ on strikers and yet their joint top and 3rd top scorers are both loans. It’s just the nature of the beast these days |
Augmenting yes, reliance no. We’re the latter. | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 08:13 - Jan 7 with 3664 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 08:04 - Jan 7 by bontcho |
Augmenting yes, reliance no. We’re the latter. |
But the relying bit comes from the loans you’ve said we should be using - ie. padding our squad with 4 or 5 squad fillers | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 08:15 - Jan 7 with 3661 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 08:02 - Jan 7 by Steve_M |
Yep, whilst Premier League clubs can afford to hoover up nearly every young player going then it's going to persist. The best loans allow us to add very good players - Fraser, Lawrence, Celina - that we would otherwise not be able to afford. The contrast with a winger we could afford in Edwards is telling. |
Precisely. And just because they go back doesn’t mean they can’t be replaced - which is why we didn’t go down the season after ‘Tom Lawrence kept us up’ (he didn’t obviously, but still...) | |
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| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 08:22 - Jan 7 with 3653 views | Bluebell |
Nobody knows how the loan players are going to perform so at least if they are rubbish it gives an option to get rid. As was the case with Jordon Graham, Tayo Edun, and to some extent Jon Walters as if we had signed him we would have been stuck with an injured player yet again.
It gives the club a chance to have a player who is much more experienced and can help the club get higher in the league. See Ryan Fraser and Tom Lawrence.
I think in our position it is the only thing we can do at the moment. We really can't afford to allow players to sign contracts and then have to pay the same wages in League 1 if that's where we are next season. |  | | |
| Generally... is there any point in loans... on 08:53 - Jan 7 with 3629 views | ZedRodgers |
Would be happy with a Jeffers right now |  |
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