| Democracy; 15:55 - Jan 15 with 4675 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
1. Leave 52%, Remain 48%. So a soft brexit reflects the general consensus of the nation.
2. We have had 2 general elections in 2 years, so why would it be undemocratic to have two referendums in 2 years.
Not sure why May keeps on banging on about democracy. |  |
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| Democracy; on 15:59 - Jan 15 with 3284 views | Championship |
I think plenty of those 48% would switch to remain if it was a choice between remaining or a soft Brexit as there isn't much point in a soft Brexit.
Why oppose a second referendum if they think leave will win again? They are just trying to force the result through because they know the will of the people has already turned. |  | | |
| Democracy; on 16:09 - Jan 15 with 3230 views | Darth_Koont |
May and the Conservatives had the option to "heal the divide" by addressing the very close nature of the referendum at the time and talking accordingly.
But no, they started spouting off about hard Brexit and even a no-deal scenario right away. Their incompetent and carelessly heavy-handed approach has done more to create the divide and jeopardise the concept of UK democracy than anything else. |  |
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| Democracy; on 16:10 - Jan 15 with 3228 views | giant_stow |
| Democracy; on 16:09 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
May and the Conservatives had the option to "heal the divide" by addressing the very close nature of the referendum at the time and talking accordingly.
But no, they started spouting off about hard Brexit and even a no-deal scenario right away. Their incompetent and carelessly heavy-handed approach has done more to create the divide and jeopardise the concept of UK democracy than anything else. |
well bludy said. |  |
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| Democracy; on 16:13 - Jan 15 with 3203 views | homer_123 |
| Democracy; on 16:09 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
May and the Conservatives had the option to "heal the divide" by addressing the very close nature of the referendum at the time and talking accordingly.
But no, they started spouting off about hard Brexit and even a no-deal scenario right away. Their incompetent and carelessly heavy-handed approach has done more to create the divide and jeopardise the concept of UK democracy than anything else. |
Coupled with ongoing negative divisive press coverage. |  |
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| Democracy; on 16:14 - Jan 15 with 3203 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Democracy; on 16:09 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
May and the Conservatives had the option to "heal the divide" by addressing the very close nature of the referendum at the time and talking accordingly.
But no, they started spouting off about hard Brexit and even a no-deal scenario right away. Their incompetent and carelessly heavy-handed approach has done more to create the divide and jeopardise the concept of UK democracy than anything else. |
Wouldnt disagree, but would also say that people voting for Brexit did so in the knowledge that they had NO IDEA WHATSOEVER who would be trying to deliver it. | |
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| Democracy; on 16:15 - Jan 15 with 3197 views | kizaitfc |
| Democracy; on 15:59 - Jan 15 by Championship |
I think plenty of those 48% would switch to remain if it was a choice between remaining or a soft Brexit as there isn't much point in a soft Brexit.
Why oppose a second referendum if they think leave will win again? They are just trying to force the result through because they know the will of the people has already turned. |
This is spot on
However you have to consider the other side, would all 52% have voted leave if it was going to be a no deal scenario?
A 2nd referendum may seem undemocratic but it seems to me to be the only option.
Problem is there needs to be a consensus as to what leave means before putting up the 2nd referendum. I think that will become Labours policy - Negotiate a new deal and put that to the people along with remain. |  |
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| Democracy; on 16:18 - Jan 15 with 3174 views | Darth_Koont |
| Democracy; on 16:14 - Jan 15 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Wouldnt disagree, but would also say that people voting for Brexit did so in the knowledge that they had NO IDEA WHATSOEVER who would be trying to deliver it. |
Not just them. The Leave campaign had no idea of what was in store or who it involved either.
Which is yet another problem with trying to turn a complex, long-term issue into a Yes/No answer. | |
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| Democracy; on 16:21 - Jan 15 with 3153 views | No9 |
I think you will have noticed 'The will of the people' is very selective when it comes to MP's actions? | | | |
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| Democracy; on 16:24 - Jan 15 with 3151 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Democracy; on 16:18 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
Not just them. The Leave campaign had no idea of what was in store or who it involved either.
Which is yet another problem with trying to turn a complex, long-term issue into a Yes/No answer. |
This. This. This. | |
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| Democracy; on 16:27 - Jan 15 with 3119 views | No9 |
| Democracy; on 16:09 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
May and the Conservatives had the option to "heal the divide" by addressing the very close nature of the referendum at the time and talking accordingly.
But no, they started spouting off about hard Brexit and even a no-deal scenario right away. Their incompetent and carelessly heavy-handed approach has done more to create the divide and jeopardise the concept of UK democracy than anything else. |
Not to mention the frequent & uneccessary insluts they were chucking around? | | | |
| Democracy; on 16:31 - Jan 15 with 3118 views | Championship |
| Democracy; on 16:09 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
May and the Conservatives had the option to "heal the divide" by addressing the very close nature of the referendum at the time and talking accordingly.
But no, they started spouting off about hard Brexit and even a no-deal scenario right away. Their incompetent and carelessly heavy-handed approach has done more to create the divide and jeopardise the concept of UK democracy than anything else. |
Not sure that would have healed anything. The result was so close that you may well be right but the leavers would have been livid that they were getting Brexit in name only and not a true Brexit. I don't think there was any way the government could have healed this divide. That result well and truly ripped the divide wide open. | | | |
| Democracy; on 16:39 - Jan 15 with 3079 views | Darth_Koont |
| Democracy; on 16:31 - Jan 15 by Championship |
Not sure that would have healed anything. The result was so close that you may well be right but the leavers would have been livid that they were getting Brexit in name only and not a true Brexit. I don't think there was any way the government could have healed this divide. That result well and truly ripped the divide wide open. |
Well, it's one thing to talk about the rage of Leavers who might not get exactly what they want with Brexit. But against that the message for most of the 48% was that they were being utterly ignored and that only a hard Brexit or even a no-deal were on the table.
I don't know about anyone else but I'm still peed off about that and the people who are still pushing that view as the "democratic result" of the referendum. | |
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| Democracy; on 16:42 - Jan 15 with 3082 views | Championship |
| Democracy; on 16:39 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
Well, it's one thing to talk about the rage of Leavers who might not get exactly what they want with Brexit. But against that the message for most of the 48% was that they were being utterly ignored and that only a hard Brexit or even a no-deal were on the table.
I don't know about anyone else but I'm still peed off about that and the people who are still pushing that view as the "democratic result" of the referendum. |
It's quite disturbing how many MPs don't know what democracy means. They are all leavers as well which is convenient. Reminds me of that saying “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it". Seems like a new version should be “It is difficult to get a person to understand democracy, when their ideology depends on them not understanding it". | | | |
| Democracy; on 16:43 - Jan 15 with 3066 views | Coastalblue |
| Democracy; on 16:39 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
Well, it's one thing to talk about the rage of Leavers who might not get exactly what they want with Brexit. But against that the message for most of the 48% was that they were being utterly ignored and that only a hard Brexit or even a no-deal were on the table.
I don't know about anyone else but I'm still peed off about that and the people who are still pushing that view as the "democratic result" of the referendum. |
Someone will be along to tell you "you lost get over it" soon.
It's very simple in some people's heads it seems, must be simple heads. |  |
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| Democracy; on 16:45 - Jan 15 with 3061 views | kizaitfc |
| Democracy; on 16:39 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
Well, it's one thing to talk about the rage of Leavers who might not get exactly what they want with Brexit. But against that the message for most of the 48% was that they were being utterly ignored and that only a hard Brexit or even a no-deal were on the table.
I don't know about anyone else but I'm still peed off about that and the people who are still pushing that view as the "democratic result" of the referendum. |
The fact the hard right are more vocal and aggressive should not allow them to dictate politics, I am fed up with the number of MPs who have claimed if we do not brexit properly we will end up with the hard right protesting and have riots on our hands.
Just because the 48% don't get in the face of politicians they get ignored and threaten riots on the streets does not mean that they should not be heard. | |
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| Democracy; on 16:46 - Jan 15 with 3052 views | Herbivore |
| Democracy; on 16:09 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
May and the Conservatives had the option to "heal the divide" by addressing the very close nature of the referendum at the time and talking accordingly.
But no, they started spouting off about hard Brexit and even a no-deal scenario right away. Their incompetent and carelessly heavy-handed approach has done more to create the divide and jeopardise the concept of UK democracy than anything else. |
Just seen a quote from a Tory Brexiteer saying, without a hint of irony, that the public voted "overwhelmingly" to leave. Nearly three years on and the Brexiteers still can't stop lying. [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 16:48]
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| Democracy; on 16:46 - Jan 15 with 3060 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Democracy; on 16:14 - Jan 15 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Wouldnt disagree, but would also say that people voting for Brexit did so in the knowledge that they had NO IDEA WHATSOEVER who would be trying to deliver it. |
That really isn't true. The government gave an undertaking to deliver the will of the people. |  |
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| Democracy; on 16:54 - Jan 15 with 3014 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Democracy; on 16:45 - Jan 15 by kizaitfc |
The fact the hard right are more vocal and aggressive should not allow them to dictate politics, I am fed up with the number of MPs who have claimed if we do not brexit properly we will end up with the hard right protesting and have riots on our hands.
Just because the 48% don't get in the face of politicians they get ignored and threaten riots on the streets does not mean that they should not be heard. |
Agree 100%, it seems bizarre to by driven by the ide of 'not upsetting the far right'!! | |
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| Democracy; on 16:56 - Jan 15 with 3003 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Democracy; on 16:46 - Jan 15 by Pinewoodblue |
That really isn't true. The government gave an undertaking to deliver the will of the people. |
its 100% true. No one whatsoever knew which personalities would be delivering the deal.
Yes it would be the government, but no one knew who would lead that process and whether they were CAPABLE of delivering 'the will of the (some) people'!! | |
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| Democracy; on 17:02 - Jan 15 with 2982 views | jjblue84 |
What makes people think a referendum is ‘democratic’ when it’s irrelevant to our constitution!! |  | | |
| Democracy; on 17:06 - Jan 15 with 2962 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Democracy; on 16:56 - Jan 15 by Marshalls_Mullet |
its 100% true. No one whatsoever knew which personalities would be delivering the deal.
Yes it would be the government, but no one knew who would lead that process and whether they were CAPABLE of delivering 'the will of the (some) people'!! |
What makes you think people worried about who was pushing it over the line? What do you base that opinion on? |  | | |
| Democracy; on 17:09 - Jan 15 with 2947 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Democracy; on 17:06 - Jan 15 by Burwell_Blue |
What makes you think people worried about who was pushing it over the line? What do you base that opinion on? |
Why wouldn't they be??
If you are instructing something to happen, you want to have confidence that the people charged with delivering your preferred outcome are CAPABLE of delivering that outcome.
...as we have found, this team do NOT appear capable of delivering that outcome. | |
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| Democracy; on 17:20 - Jan 15 with 2917 views | Burwell_Blue |
| Democracy; on 17:09 - Jan 15 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Why wouldn't they be??
If you are instructing something to happen, you want to have confidence that the people charged with delivering your preferred outcome are CAPABLE of delivering that outcome.
...as we have found, this team do NOT appear capable of delivering that outcome. |
Because its your opinion. Its not fact, yet your suggest that you are speaking for the will of the people.
I want to leave. I am not bother who when or how that is achieved, I simply want the final outcome.
You to need to stop mixing your opinions as gospel. | | | |
| Democracy; on 17:35 - Jan 15 with 2876 views | Herbivore |
| Democracy; on 17:20 - Jan 15 by Burwell_Blue |
Because its your opinion. Its not fact, yet your suggest that you are speaking for the will of the people.
I want to leave. I am not bother who when or how that is achieved, I simply want the final outcome.
You to need to stop mixing your opinions as gospel. |
So you don't really know what you want. | |
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| Democracy; on 17:54 - Jan 15 with 2854 views | Darth_Koont |
| Democracy; on 16:46 - Jan 15 by Herbivore |
Just seen a quote from a Tory Brexiteer saying, without a hint of irony, that the public voted "overwhelmingly" to leave. Nearly three years on and the Brexiteers still can't stop lying. [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 16:48]
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Those who are most pro-Leave are overwhelmingly thick and/or liars. | |
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