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Would you vote: - The same as before - Leave - The same as before - Remain - Differently - Leave - Differently - Remain
I think I’d vote differently - To remain.
It’s frankly a shambles. And I voted leave without knowing. I should never have been trusted to vote on something the general public knows not enough about.
If there was another referendum: on 22:24 - Jan 15 by wkj
I used the words "Would" to the introduction of the post in the first three lines.
The rest was challenging two scenarios:
voting leave because they believed it was the right outcome
voting leave, while believing we should remain, but to try and prove a point
Hopefully that helps clear it up
EDIT: As for telling you how to vote(hypothetically or otherwise) I'm not - Just highlighting the fact you'd be trying to prove a point that has long been proven and known, as a sacrifice to your beliefs in what the outcome of a referendum should be.
[Post edited 15 Jan 2019 22:29]
>> Just highlighting the fact you'd be trying to prove a point that has long been proven and known, as a sacrifice to your beliefs in what the outcome of a referendum should be.
This is the problem, your "point" above is that the government is incompetent. I don't believe they are, I think they are doing a very good at trying to achieve what they want. Like I said, most people have been played like puppets.
If there was another referendum: on 22:38 - Jan 15 by caught-in-limbo
>> Just highlighting the fact you'd be trying to prove a point that has long been proven and known, as a sacrifice to your beliefs in what the outcome of a referendum should be.
This is the problem, your "point" above is that the government is incompetent. I don't believe they are, I think they are doing a very good at trying to achieve what they want. Like I said, most people have been played like puppets.
Of course people have been played like puppets, politics is about appeasing your key supporters and doing just enough to get the public to allow you to be in power to do so.
But playing games with a vote in a vote for vote majority referendum is reckless, and ultimately does little to prop up an argument against the establishment that is already widely known.
If there was another referendum: on 22:38 - Jan 15 by caught-in-limbo
>> Just highlighting the fact you'd be trying to prove a point that has long been proven and known, as a sacrifice to your beliefs in what the outcome of a referendum should be.
This is the problem, your "point" above is that the government is incompetent. I don't believe they are, I think they are doing a very good at trying to achieve what they want. Like I said, most people have been played like puppets.
This has very little to do with what the politicians want or planned and even less to do with a grand conspiracy, there was never a good solution to brexit given the lines that the UK and EU weren't willing to cross.
Given that, the entropy of the process was always likely to lead to where we are now.
The result will be the similar to what you predicted but the method will be as above rather than that of a conspiracy.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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If there was another referendum: on 22:46 - Jan 15 with 3665 views
If there was another referendum: on 21:47 - Jan 15 by Ewan_Oozami
I would vote Remain - for me the case for changing the status quo, even now, has not been sufficiently made, IMHO.
Once we're out, we're out and if we do find it difficult to make those easy trade deals, then getting back in, should the mood of the country change, would be very difficult and on much worse terms than before. Outside we have relatively little leverage on the world stage, certainly compared to the EU, China and the US, and especially after he debacle we've made over leaving the EU.
Even if we stay in, we can still do many things:
1. Still opt out of more stuff we don't like 2. Actually plan a managed exit from the EU following another referendum in say 10 years time - or not even having a referendum, just re-invoking Article 50 3. Actually take a proper part in European affairs instead of just sniping from the sidelines, instead of taking the laissez faire attitude of New Labour. 4. We still have that implicit threat that we could leave at any time should the EU prove intransigent.
What would the question be for a 2nd ref anyway, Remain or Leave with No Deal?
The biggest mistake the leavers made was assuming the EU would cave in once we'd invoked Article 50 - we should have held off invoking Article 50 for at least another 6 -12 months to let all the shenanigans play out (and possibly had a GE in the meantime to confirm (or not) the Brexit mood of the country) and then we would have been in a stronger position, by invoking Article 50 so quickly, we lost any leverage we might have had.
Excellent post, +1.
Voted Remain, would do so again despite having shifted about 2% slightly t'other way (ie I was 100% Remain before, am now only about 98% Remain!).
If there was another referendum: on 22:45 - Jan 15 by StokieBlue
This has very little to do with what the politicians want or planned and even less to do with a grand conspiracy, there was never a good solution to brexit given the lines that the UK and EU weren't willing to cross.
Given that, the entropy of the process was always likely to lead to where we are now.
The result will be the similar to what you predicted but the method will be as above rather than that of a conspiracy.
SB
"Given that, the entropy of the process was always likely to lead to where we are now."
Interesting. At what point did it become so obvious to you?
"The result will be the similar to what you predicted but the method will be as above rather than that of a conspiracy."
"Conspiracy" is a dirty word, so you're always backing a winner by denying a conspiracy. Despite the voice of the people, I suspect it'll soon become quite clear that over the last 2.5 years we have in fact integrated ourselves more deeply into the EU in every aspect including defence - such progress would not have been possible without the cover of the fiasco "Brexit".
If there was another referendum: on 22:58 - Jan 15 by caught-in-limbo
"Given that, the entropy of the process was always likely to lead to where we are now."
Interesting. At what point did it become so obvious to you?
"The result will be the similar to what you predicted but the method will be as above rather than that of a conspiracy."
"Conspiracy" is a dirty word, so you're always backing a winner by denying a conspiracy. Despite the voice of the people, I suspect it'll soon become quite clear that over the last 2.5 years we have in fact integrated ourselves more deeply into the EU in every aspect including defence - such progress would not have been possible without the cover of the fiasco "Brexit".
SB is right. Although I felt that it was best in the medium/ long term to leave the EU I voted remain as I just couldn't see Cameron, or anyone else in Govt being strong enough to deliver.
If there was another referendum: on 20:13 - Jan 15 by SpruceMoose
Let's be honest. It was only foreigners appearing in their field of vision from time to time that got most of the Gammonista's up off their bums and down the polling station. Without the promise of a supremely white British land what is going to motivate them?
Mr Spruce. Surely it was the responsibility of the individual to do some research into the EU. Many folk i know voted leave, not because of immigration, but because of the ever increasing reality of a European Superstate. I spent much time researching & debating with many fellow Europeans, and drew my own conclusions to vote leave, which i would do so again in the event of a 2nd referendum. In my experience, many "remainers" could not be bothered to get off their bums & down to the polling station to vote. Just saying. FWIW, I encouraged all my step children to vote, they all voted remain. Most of their social circle "couldn,t be arsed".
We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub.
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If there was another referendum: on 23:32 - Jan 15 with 3577 views
If there was another referendum: on 23:07 - Jan 15 by Pinewoodblue
SB is right. Although I felt that it was best in the medium/ long term to leave the EU I voted remain as I just couldn't see Cameron, or anyone else in Govt being strong enough to deliver.
Who did you vote for in the 2015 GE if you don't mind me asking?
If there was another referendum: on 23:09 - Jan 15 by StochesStotasBlewe
Mr Spruce. Surely it was the responsibility of the individual to do some research into the EU. Many folk i know voted leave, not because of immigration, but because of the ever increasing reality of a European Superstate. I spent much time researching & debating with many fellow Europeans, and drew my own conclusions to vote leave, which i would do so again in the event of a 2nd referendum. In my experience, many "remainers" could not be bothered to get off their bums & down to the polling station to vote. Just saying. FWIW, I encouraged all my step children to vote, they all voted remain. Most of their social circle "couldn,t be arsed".
I mentioned earlier that I voted remain and would do so again but one of the many reasons my swingometer has nudged a bit the opposite way is the attitude of fellow remainers towards leavers.
Calling them thick and racist is childish. I have given this a bit of thought and I have come to the conclusion that those who do this and call people Gammons actually have a small penis.
I will refer to these people in future as Microdicks
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
If there was another referendum: on 23:34 - Jan 15 by Lord_Lucan
I mentioned earlier that I voted remain and would do so again but one of the many reasons my swingometer has nudged a bit the opposite way is the attitude of fellow remainers towards leavers.
Calling them thick and racist is childish. I have given this a bit of thought and I have come to the conclusion that those who do this and call people Gammons actually have a small penis.
I will refer to these people in future as Microdicks
Good for you. I hope you also honour your friend the DalaiFarmer (RIP) and TWTD tradition by saying "Microdick listed" at every appropriate moment and regularly publishing your "Microdick hall of shame" list.
If there was another referendum: on 23:45 - Jan 15 by Pinewoodblue
My vote doesn't count South Suffolk conservative association could put a cardboard cut out of Princess Margaret as candidate and they would win.
It might not count on the outcome, but even spending a vote on an independent can help them financially if they get enough votes, which can potentially lead to strengthening/forming a party nationwide. Always vote, always- it can make a difference, even if not for the direct outcome of that election.
If there was another referendum: on 23:43 - Jan 15 by caught-in-limbo
Good for you. I hope you also honour your friend the DalaiFarmer (RIP) and TWTD tradition by saying "Microdick listed" at every appropriate moment and regularly publishing your "Microdick hall of shame" list.
That's a very good idea, I will do my best but I don't have as much time on my hands as he did.
If it was a race thing I wouldn't get so annoyed but BREXIT to me isn't about Johnny Foreigner, I appreciate that a noisy minority may have voted because of it but BREXIT is so much more than immigration.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
If there was another referendum: on 22:45 - Jan 15 by StokieBlue
This has very little to do with what the politicians want or planned and even less to do with a grand conspiracy, there was never a good solution to brexit given the lines that the UK and EU weren't willing to cross.
Given that, the entropy of the process was always likely to lead to where we are now.
The result will be the similar to what you predicted but the method will be as above rather than that of a conspiracy.
SB
"Given that, the entropy of the process was always likely to lead to where we are now."
Well, I'm pretty sure I was alone in my enormous scepticism of David Cameron's slick promise. But it looks like you and a few others on this site knew it was going to happen all along too (but not for "conspiracy reasons" of course, no no. No need for entertaining conspiracies, eh?)
So when exactly did you have your doubts about Brexit, and did you ever share them here on the forum?
If there was another referendum: on 23:51 - Jan 15 by Lord_Lucan
That's a very good idea, I will do my best but I don't have as much time on my hands as he did.
If it was a race thing I wouldn't get so annoyed but BREXIT to me isn't about Johnny Foreigner, I appreciate that a noisy minority may have voted because of it but BREXIT is so much more than immigration.
I would say over 50% of the 52% voted because of immigration.
In regards to you your earlier point about remainers suggesting Brexiters are unintelligent, are you suggesting there isn't a correlation between the 52% and stupidity? That's a really interesting view point.
I'm not fan of a second referendum, the vote is done & dusted and we need to deal with the self inflicted fallout.
If people weren't prepared to do their own homework and instead simply followed the ramblings of Farage & Johnson, it's a sad indictment of them as a person and us as a country. We're being laughed by the rest of the world for our own stupidity.
To add further, let's be honest, anyone who voted leave over the age of 45 simply wants to return to an On The Buses style of living.
[Post edited 16 Jan 2019 8:17]
Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
If there was another referendum: on 07:48 - Jan 16 by RoyKeanesDog
I would say over 50% of the 52% voted because of immigration.
In regards to you your earlier point about remainers suggesting Brexiters are unintelligent, are you suggesting there isn't a correlation between the 52% and stupidity? That's a really interesting view point.
I would suggest that a percentage of both sides of the debate didn,t look into the ramifications of EU membership with due diligence. I was Euro skeptic before the vote, neither remain nor leave impressed me with their subsequent campaigns, so therefore, much research and burning of midnight oil ensued to come to the conclusions i reached. Appreciate that immigration was a major concern for some, but to suggest that is just stupidity is not really fair. Some were more easily swayed by slogans on a big red bus or project fear than others or have deeply entrenched views that probably can,t or wont be changed.
We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub.
0
If there was another referendum: on 09:02 - Jan 16 with 3368 views
Same as before, Remain. Let's get on together, work together and play together with our closest neighbours. Rather than drive wedges through society based on which country someone happened by chance to be born in, or what colour they are, or which box they ticked in the polling booth. The whole thing doesn't show us in a good light at all and is bringing the worse out of people.
If there was another referendum: on 20:54 - Jan 15 by Bluesquid
My god, we can't even hold these clowns to account in our own country, does anyone think it's going to be any easier to do so when they are sitting in another country?
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