| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current 20:52 - Jan 15 with 3677 views | homer_123 |
ills as a nation.
Under investment in the NHS
The widening social mobility gap
Increased house prices
Low wages
We, as a nation have control over these issues and have done forever. Over the last 40 years and well before.
We, as a collective, as a nation, have chosen or allowed us to be led into a situation where we have accepted the underfunding and slow privatisation of the NHS, we have allowed the gap to widen between the haves and have nots. We've allowed Universities to charge fees for education. We have allowed the housing market to become so ridiculous that barely anyone can get on the housing ladder.
Sod European politics and whether we should or should not be part of the EU. Let's take a long hard look at ourselves, our country and what sort of country we want to live in.
Let's deal with these issues. We've let ourselves down...we have let things get so bad. Certainly being part of the EU hasn't forced or helped us deal with these problems and nor should it. Exiting the EU will have little bearing either.
We can choose to address these issues or not and so far no one on leave or remain has evidenced how either approach will help us address the above.
Stating being in the EU is commercially better than being out is not an argument here. We've been part of the EU for 40 years and we have let things slide. [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 20:58]
|  |
| |  |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 20:56 - Jan 15 with 2675 views | No9 |
& in the hub-bub of this lot this government has quietly announced slashing pensions for the poorest in society |  | | |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 20:58 - Jan 15 with 2677 views | Steve_M |
Yes, broadly agree with that. It's been an easy excuse for all sorts of problems, but not one that bothered many people before the referendum campaign.
Amongst the issues that need to be addressed that you've not specifically mentioned:
- The global role of the UK, incl militarily and specifically the cost of a nuclear Arsenal;
- A sustainable and secure energy policy;
- The regional imbalance between London and the SE and other parts of the country. |  |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:05 - Jan 15 with 2656 views | Clapham_Junction |
And the sad thing is that one of the major parties finally gets a leadership that realises the status quo on these issues need changing, most of the media goes into meltdown about them, presumably because they're terrified of that happening. |  | | |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:06 - Jan 15 with 2660 views | Guthrum |
An obsession with "growth", which in reality is mostly only the things we sell getting more expensive.
An obsession with lowering taxes (so we can buy more stuff) rather than an interest in building a well-funded society.
Wages are only low compared with the rocketing price of living, not by an absolute international measure.
Many more people have a generally very good standard of living than in the past, but there is a much bigger gap between the comfortably off and the poor.
What to do about it? Reinstill a corporate feeling about society. Stop thinking as isolated individuals and family units (me me me), but as communities grouped together in regions and nations (us us us). Encourage a high regard for one's fellow humans, develop empathy and sympathy. It needs a change of mindset far more than mere mechanical tinkering with economic systems. |  |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:10 - Jan 15 with 2642 views | No9 |
A message from my MP to his constituents saying hpw he would vote blames all the ills on the UK having to give money to the EU | | | |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:10 - Jan 15 with 2651 views | wkj |
To have the thought that being in or out of the EU would make any of those profoundly better as a result would be diffucult to justify. I think the biggest consideration you need to make, is which could possibly make those things worse, being part of the EU or not- in this case I have a gut feeling the implications would be massive. |  |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:14 - Jan 15 with 2637 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:10 - Jan 15 by No9 |
A message from my MP to his constituents saying hpw he would vote blames all the ills on the UK having to give money to the EU |
… and yet you get a tax break down every year that dispels that lie.
The destruction of public services always has been a right wing policy. Low taxation, low services. Suits the richest in society and harms the poor most. |  |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:16 - Jan 15 with 2622 views | No9 |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:14 - Jan 15 by Nthsuffolkblue |
… and yet you get a tax break down every year that dispels that lie.
The destruction of public services always has been a right wing policy. Low taxation, low services. Suits the richest in society and harms the poor most. |
Indeed & I look to see which way my MP votes, he is at the heart of the problems the country has - his voting record show that | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:19 - Jan 15 with 2628 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:16 - Jan 15 by No9 |
Indeed & I look to see which way my MP votes, he is at the heart of the problems the country has - his voting record show that |
and yet he is undoubtedly elected virtually without contest thanks to being a Conservative in Tory heartland.
I know that feeling. | |
| |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:24 - Jan 15 with 2620 views | unstableblue |
... a buoyant economy provides a larger government spending purse.
Our best period of NHS, schools, regeneration and public service investment was during the boom of the 90s.
Brexit is sending us into a recession of a scale far far greater than 2008; when Austerity was required.
So Brexit ABSOLUTELY is relevant. 50% of our exports are to the EU. |  |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:27 - Jan 15 with 2618 views | Swansea_Blue |
Did you miss the 20 years of the tabloids telling you this is all the fault of the nasty little foreigners? |  |
| |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:31 - Jan 15 with 2603 views | homer_123 |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:24 - Jan 15 by unstableblue |
... a buoyant economy provides a larger government spending purse.
Our best period of NHS, schools, regeneration and public service investment was during the boom of the 90s.
Brexit is sending us into a recession of a scale far far greater than 2008; when Austerity was required.
So Brexit ABSOLUTELY is relevant. 50% of our exports are to the EU. |
Regardless of purse size...where are we choosing to invest? | |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:33 - Jan 15 with 2599 views | homer_123 |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:27 - Jan 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Did you miss the 20 years of the tabloids telling you this is all the fault of the nasty little foreigners? |
This country would grind to a halt without people coming to live here and work.
Don't even get me started on how embarrassingly crap we are about letting refugees into this country either....nowhere near enough. | |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:33 - Jan 15 with 2602 views | itfcjoe |
That is the whole point - this sideshow has cost us so much time and money when the problems have always been internal |  |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:34 - Jan 15 with 2592 views | homer_123 |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:10 - Jan 15 by wkj |
To have the thought that being in or out of the EU would make any of those profoundly better as a result would be diffucult to justify. I think the biggest consideration you need to make, is which could possibly make those things worse, being part of the EU or not- in this case I have a gut feeling the implications would be massive. |
That doesn't address the point about us as a nation or what we want our society to be. | |
| |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:37 - Jan 15 with 2577 views | No9 |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:31 - Jan 15 by homer_123 |
Regardless of purse size...where are we choosing to invest? |
When the tories got in in 2010 instead of putting money directly into the infrastructure projects needed they gave the money to wealthy corporations who put it in the bank and paid out share dividends OR, like some other went tits up & left the taxpayer with another large bill | | | |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:40 - Jan 15 with 2570 views | unstableblue |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:31 - Jan 15 by homer_123 |
Regardless of purse size...where are we choosing to invest? |
Well as a result of this:
"Since 2009-2010 the deficit has fallen by four-fifths, from 9.9% to 1.9%. Public debt peaked in 2016-17 and is now falling. On average, spending on public services will grow 1.2% above inflation a year from next year until 2023-24."
We were planning to do this:
"The NHS is the public’s number one priority and the government will increase its budget by £20.5 billion after inflation by 2023-24. Within this, the NHS will increase mental health spending by more than £2 billion a year by 2023-24."
"Local authorities in England will receive a further £650 million in social care funding next year."
"£400 million extra for schools this year
This will be £10,000 for the average primary school and £50,000 for the average secondary school."
Of course its not enough - but what will it look like after a recession worse than 2008? | |
| |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:58 - Jan 15 with 2551 views | No9 |
| Let me spell it out homer... on 21:40 - Jan 15 by unstableblue |
Well as a result of this:
"Since 2009-2010 the deficit has fallen by four-fifths, from 9.9% to 1.9%. Public debt peaked in 2016-17 and is now falling. On average, spending on public services will grow 1.2% above inflation a year from next year until 2023-24."
We were planning to do this:
"The NHS is the public’s number one priority and the government will increase its budget by £20.5 billion after inflation by 2023-24. Within this, the NHS will increase mental health spending by more than £2 billion a year by 2023-24."
"Local authorities in England will receive a further £650 million in social care funding next year."
"£400 million extra for schools this year
This will be £10,000 for the average primary school and £50,000 for the average secondary school."
Of course its not enough - but what will it look like after a recession worse than 2008? |
Don't forget the governemnt is cutting the GCG to the L.A.'s (to nothing) which means they will have much less cash unless they can raise it locally and with so many businesses going tits up (Norwich a good example) locally things look like gettign very bad | | | |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 22:05 - Jan 15 with 2543 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 20:56 - Jan 15 by No9 |
& in the hub-bub of this lot this government has quietly announced slashing pensions for the poorest in society |
No they haven't. |  |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 22:12 - Jan 15 with 2529 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 22:05 - Jan 15 by Pinewoodblue |
No they haven't. |
Oh yes they have. No 9’s pretty much got that right - it’s the pension top-ups (means tested on wealth) that are being axed where a partner is not yet of pensionsble age. | |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 22:18 - Jan 15 with 2518 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 22:12 - Jan 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Oh yes they have. No 9’s pretty much got that right - it’s the pension top-ups (means tested on wealth) that are being axed where a partner is not yet of pensionsble age. |
Those below pensionable age are expected to be working, nothing wrong with that logic. | |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 22:20 - Jan 15 with 2515 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:06 - Jan 15 by Guthrum |
An obsession with "growth", which in reality is mostly only the things we sell getting more expensive.
An obsession with lowering taxes (so we can buy more stuff) rather than an interest in building a well-funded society.
Wages are only low compared with the rocketing price of living, not by an absolute international measure.
Many more people have a generally very good standard of living than in the past, but there is a much bigger gap between the comfortably off and the poor.
What to do about it? Reinstill a corporate feeling about society. Stop thinking as isolated individuals and family units (me me me), but as communities grouped together in regions and nations (us us us). Encourage a high regard for one's fellow humans, develop empathy and sympathy. It needs a change of mindset far more than mere mechanical tinkering with economic systems. |
A bit of an ask to undo Thatcherism if you asked me. It played to the basest of human emotions and people won’t easily give up the dream of one day being filthily rich or putting oneself above others.
It’s an idealistic point, but I like homer’s approach - we’ve forgotten to strip things back to basics and ask what we want to be like as a society. I’m sure if people stopped to think about it, collecting more stuff and not giving back wouldn’t actually be high on their values list. | |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 22:37 - Jan 15 with 2488 views | Darth_Koont |
Absolutely. But we're trapped in a position where the only two parties in town would have to take responsibility for how they've sold themselves into the electorate.
Never going to happen. We're heading for some Mad Max dystopian future before anyone admits that maybe we should have collected a bit more tax and invested it in the citizens of this country ... rather than facilitating second homes and cheap weekends away in Barcelona. |  |
| |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 23:20 - Jan 15 with 2463 views | eireblue |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 22:20 - Jan 15 by Swansea_Blue |
A bit of an ask to undo Thatcherism if you asked me. It played to the basest of human emotions and people won’t easily give up the dream of one day being filthily rich or putting oneself above others.
It’s an idealistic point, but I like homer’s approach - we’ve forgotten to strip things back to basics and ask what we want to be like as a society. I’m sure if people stopped to think about it, collecting more stuff and not giving back wouldn’t actually be high on their values list. |
In one of the posts about the wearing of the poppy, some posted an article written by a WWII vet.
I liked his opinion, and thought it accurate, it was along the lines of "things started to go bad, when people started to think of themselves as tax payers not citizens".
A lot of sound-bite politics seems to play to that framing of policy as being about taxpayers and not citizens. |  | | |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 23:24 - Jan 15 with 2460 views | wkj |
| Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our current on 21:34 - Jan 15 by homer_123 |
That doesn't address the point about us as a nation or what we want our society to be. |
Whether we are within or out of the EU has little to no bearing on our ills as a nation.
I am afraid I have to disagree here, It does address the point - Point being while voting one way or the other might not improve our ills, voting in such a way could exacerbate them; ergo - having quite the baring on our ills as a nation. [Post edited 16 Jan 2019 4:28]
| |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
