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Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 17:29 - Jan 19 by Ryorry
"Ryorry ... has confirmed a couple of times in the past that I have been speaking out against antisemitism (from all sides) for over ten years."
I have somewhat poor memory of exact timespans, but can confirm that's been the case for many years, incl several before Corbyn's rise to prominence.
BTR - "Antisemtism specifically? Nah, all concurrent with Corbyn I'd say."
Sorry but that's simply incorrect.
This maybe true but for way too long now it's simply been a shot across the bows for the "Corbyn is worse than Attila the Hun" sideshow.
It reeks of double standards and hypocrisy that he backs Gove for PM, safe in the knowledge that Gove sees anti Semitism as a (bad taste) joke (at best).
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 17:42]
Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 17:32 - Jan 19 by BackToRussia
My memory against yours then.
It's poss I *might* be able to fish something out from my PMs to prove that my memory's correct here, if PMs weren't subject to the same axe as Gav wielded in his last forum pruning! But I do remember clearly that GB's stand against anti-semitism goes back at least 5 years+.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 17:41 - Jan 19 by Ryorry
It's poss I *might* be able to fish something out from my PMs to prove that my memory's correct here, if PMs weren't subject to the same axe as Gav wielded in his last forum pruning! But I do remember clearly that GB's stand against anti-semitism goes back at least 5 years+.
Not getting into all the rest of it (ABB's post etc), but just to confirm - having checked, I have PMs from GB dating from 27/01/2013 & 30/01/2013 - both were continuations of an on-forum debate in which he'd stood up vigorously against anti-semitism. I'd been offline, asked him what had happened, and supported his stand when he explained. Those were the earliest I have - we may not have PM'd each other on the subject before, as we didn't exactly see eye to eye on other politics!
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 18:12 - Jan 19 by Ryorry
Not getting into all the rest of it (ABB's post etc), but just to confirm - having checked, I have PMs from GB dating from 27/01/2013 & 30/01/2013 - both were continuations of an on-forum debate in which he'd stood up vigorously against anti-semitism. I'd been offline, asked him what had happened, and supported his stand when he explained. Those were the earliest I have - we may not have PM'd each other on the subject before, as we didn't exactly see eye to eye on other politics!
It's sort of obvious that he'd be against antisemitism. It's a vile racist stance to take. It's the fact that he has turned it into a crusade that he claims to have always been on that I refute.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 18:29 - Jan 19 by BackToRussia
It's sort of obvious that he'd be against antisemitism. It's a vile racist stance to take. It's the fact that he has turned it into a crusade that he claims to have always been on that I refute.
It's very clear to me from what he said in those PMs that it was a crusade for him at least 6 years ago - that's over 2.5 years before JC became leader - and quite possibly before that too. Anyway, I was just confirming a point as requested, & don't really have an interest in continuing this further.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 18:12 - Jan 19 by Ryorry
Not getting into all the rest of it (ABB's post etc), but just to confirm - having checked, I have PMs from GB dating from 27/01/2013 & 30/01/2013 - both were continuations of an on-forum debate in which he'd stood up vigorously against anti-semitism. I'd been offline, asked him what had happened, and supported his stand when he explained. Those were the earliest I have - we may not have PM'd each other on the subject before, as we didn't exactly see eye to eye on other politics!
Maybe from the PMs you can tell us the context. That doesn't ring a bell at all.
I'm about to log out actually & as I said, don't have any interest in continuing this, but happy to give you the context - it was re a thread containing offensive anti-semitic "jokes" that was pulled by Phil. There then came a follow-up thread objecting to the deletion, containing some even more vile anti-semitic stuff by someone else, which was eventually pulled too. Hence my asking GB - not sure I ever saw either, but there was a hoo-ha about it, perhaps a third thread. Both the posters of the pulled threads are still around.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 11:21 - Jan 19 by GlasgowBlue
Oy vey!! Where to start?
What we have here is a thread, and series of replies, designed for no other reason than to bait, silence and discredit a man of Jewish descent, who has a half Jewish wife and children with Jewish blood, because he is a vociferous critic of the rising tide of antisemitism in the party who may well form the next government in this country.
Top work fellas. Goebbels would be proud of your work.
I’m away this weekend, and Mrs GB gets the raving hump when I am distracted by talking to what she calls my “imaginary friends” (see she understands irony despite living here all of her life). So rather than get bogged down in a ten pager I shall address the points that I have read so far. After that I shall get on with the rest of my weekend so you will all have to continue your soft antisemitic* w@nkfest without me
ABB. The Gove clip was discussed on here in 2016 when it first started to surface. You have also brought Corbyn into the discussion so let’s discuss the context of what Gove said and what Corbyn has said and done with regards to the subject of antisemitism.
Firstly Gove. is not a politician making a political speech and throwing in a joke at the expense of 6 million Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust. This is a wannabe comedian delivering a monologue on a Mary Whitehouse Experience-esque comedy show he co presented with David Baddiel. This aired around the same time as The Day Today and other shows which dealt with dark humour.
Is holocaust humour acceptable? My view is no. I don’t enjoy Holocaust humour when delivered by Jewish comics such as Joan Rivers, Mel Brooks or Larry David. When a non Jew does Holocaust humour then I find it completely unacceptable. And for that reason I unequivocally condemn Give for delivering the monologue. I also found the mocking of suicide distasteful in the monologue. It was a cheap joke aimed at what was the
But as I say, I am condemning a rubbish comedian. Not a politician. If Frankie Boyle, who has made jokes at the expense of the disabled amongst others, decided to give up comedy and pursue a career in politics then should his past jokes be held against him? An honest answer please.
Moving on to Corbyn, and the points made by both ABB and Bluesquid.
Jeremy Corbyn did not pursue a former career in comedy (Although some may say he has succeeded in that respect considering his performance as Labour leader).
As a politician he has shared a platform with and associated with some of the worst anti-Semites, blood libellers and holocaust deniers that the world has seen. Not because he desires peace, as his fan club may claim. But because he agrees with their aims.
He hasn’t made one inappropriate joke. He has:
Called for the release of two convicted bombers who set of explosives at a London building that housed Jewish charities.
Praised Hamas, a group who murder Jewish civilians, and referred to them as his “friends”. Of both Hamas and Hezbollah, he stated “It is our job to support those people”.
Hosted an event on Holocaust Memorial Day which compared the actions of Israel with that of the Nazis. That is a violation of the IHRA definition of antisemitism.
Sponsored a bill in the hoc calling for the elimination and replacement of Holocaust Memorial Day in the UK.
Gave support for an antisemitic mural to remain on display.
Defended the Rev Stephen Sizer over a series of antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Praised Raed Salah, who has been convicted of spreading antisemitic blood libel. Corbyn said to him “I look forward to giving you tea on the terrace [of the HOC] because you deserve it.
Appeared on Iran’s propaganda channel and promoted anti-Israeli conspiracy theories. On another appearance he referred to convicted bomber as his “brother”. The bomber had murdered seven innocent Jews.
Othered the British Jewish community by saying that at some point British Jews had been driven into Zionism and that despite living here all of their lives they still didn’t get English irony.
Regularly attended events organised by self-confessed Holocaust denier, Paul Eissen, despite being aware of his views.
Laid a wreath at the grave of the mastermind of the Munich massacre whilst stood next to the leader of the PLFP, a terror group who have carried our numerous murders against Jews, including a British Rabbi.
Been a member and participant of two secret antisemitic Facebook groups,
That’s just a few examples. I haven’t even got onto how he has badly handled the anti-Semitism crisis that has gripped the Labour party which has seen the British Jewish community organise two marches on Parliament Square in protest.
So I’m afraid you comparison with Gove’s appalling and disgusting joke doesn’t wash. Perhaps we can discuss the reasons why I am so vehemently opposed to antisemitism and why you find the need to constantly challenge me on the subject. I feel that sometimes things can get lost in the written word and it's much better expressed face to face. So I am inviting you to a friendly chat over a pint at the Wigan game which I am attending next month.
Oh, before I go, I can’t leave out Back To Russia.
Mate, year of self-confessed weed use has fcuked your memory.
i) I never mentioned right wing propogandists having information on Corbyn. I said that Tory Central office will be compiling a file of all Corbyn’s past associations with terrorists and other unsavoury characters to use against him.
The thing is, if you don’t hang out with murderers and terrorists whilst supporting their aims then there isn’t a file to compile. It’s not as if they need to make anything up. Most of his misdemeanours are a matter of public record.
ii) The “antisemitism stuff” didn’t start after “spygate. That story came out just under a year ago. I have been highlighting Corbyn’s antisemitism since early 2016 when it really started to become an issue. Ryorry won’t be able to comment in this as she is no doubt on here way to the match, but she has confirmed a couple of times in the past that I have been speaking out against antisemitism (from all sides) for over ten years. It’s just that the issue in the Labour party has been so huge that there is far more of it to highlight.
*Yes antisemitic. What would you call the constant questioning of my motives for raising this issue when fully aware of my family background? Think about this.
Would you constantly call in to question the motives of a man highlighting Islamophobia in the Tory party, who has a surname that identifies him of Muslim descent, who has a wife who is half Muslim and kids with Muslim blood? If the answer is no then take a good look at yourselves.
People question your motives because your anti-semitism attacks are disproportionate. If it were just about your family ties you'd condemn ALL anti-semitism UNEQUIVOCALLY. Even here you offer a "but" for Gove... before going onto Corbyn whataboutery.
It's well-known you dislike Corbyn/Labour. You attack him for all sorts of things, antisemitism being just one of them. Rightly or wrongly, and whether you like it or not, that's why it looks like Corbyn's links to anti-semitism seem like a bonus to you - another stick you can beat him with.
And you can't really blame people for highlighting Gove's poor taste jokes here. If Corbyn had made such comments (in whatever context) you would've been all over them.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 19:22 - Jan 19 by Ryorry
I'm about to log out actually & as I said, don't have any interest in continuing this, but happy to give you the context - it was re a thread containing offensive anti-semitic "jokes" that was pulled by Phil. There then came a follow-up thread objecting to the deletion, containing some even more vile anti-semitic stuff by someone else, which was eventually pulled too. Hence my asking GB - not sure I ever saw either, but there was a hoo-ha about it, perhaps a third thread. Both the posters of the pulled threads are still around.
So stuff anyone would complain about? I probably complained as well.
The antisemitism crusade is on a completely different level. Because it's not about offensive jokes for everybody to see but the creation (and repetition) of a narrative.
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Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 19:34 - Jan 19 with 2658 views
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 19:27 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont
So stuff anyone would complain about? I probably complained as well.
The antisemitism crusade is on a completely different level. Because it's not about offensive jokes for everybody to see but the creation (and repetition) of a narrative.
Look, as I've already said n times, I was asked, & replying specifically to the claim that GB's posts in response to anti-semitism were "all concurrent with Corbyn" (as leader of the LP). I debunked that and am now out, g'night.
Not quite sure how someone taking a stand against antisemitism is a bad thing. But there we go. We do live in funny times, where entrenched views take precedence over common sense.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 19:34 - Jan 19 by Ryorry
Look, as I've already said n times, I was asked, & replying specifically to the claim that GB's posts in response to anti-semitism were "all concurrent with Corbyn" (as leader of the LP). I debunked that and am now out, g'night.
Hardly debunked. I think you've helped establish that the last couple of years has seen a completely different level and type of response to antisemitism.
I'm guessing it just wasn't important to root it out before. And that goes for the media and pro-Israeli lobby too. Most of the evidence for the accusations was around well before Corbyn became leader and a threat to different groups for his political leanings and his support for Palestine.
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Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 22:54 - Jan 19 with 2548 views
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 22:33 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont
Hardly debunked. I think you've helped establish that the last couple of years has seen a completely different level and type of response to antisemitism.
I'm guessing it just wasn't important to root it out before. And that goes for the media and pro-Israeli lobby too. Most of the evidence for the accusations was around well before Corbyn became leader and a threat to different groups for his political leanings and his support for Palestine.
My debunking of BTR's comment is not confined to PMs on 2 dates with GB, it relates to many dozens of his other callings out of many people, not just JC, re anti-semitism over several years -including before Corbyn was even a recognized public name - I'd certainly never heard of him prior to his leadership challenge in 2015.
You can try to twist it whatever way you want, I've debunked BTR's accusation and will leave it now to GB to take it up if he wants to. I'm fed up with this & have said several times that it's not my argument - I'm just stating a fact, sorry if you don't like that.
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 22:54 - Jan 19 by Ryorry
My debunking of BTR's comment is not confined to PMs on 2 dates with GB, it relates to many dozens of his other callings out of many people, not just JC, re anti-semitism over several years -including before Corbyn was even a recognized public name - I'd certainly never heard of him prior to his leadership challenge in 2015.
You can try to twist it whatever way you want, I've debunked BTR's accusation and will leave it now to GB to take it up if he wants to. I'm fed up with this & have said several times that it's not my argument - I'm just stating a fact, sorry if you don't like that.
I'm sorry that you haven't convinced me.
"Many dozens of his other callings out re: antisemitism" ... I've been on this board all that time and haven't seen that at all.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 23:08]
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Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 23:23 - Jan 19 with 2499 views
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 23:50 - Jan 19 by Ryorry
I'm not "suggesting", I know for a fact that it did.
We must be talking about a different timeframe then. If you said those were mixed in with the last few years of Corbyn and Labour attacks then I might agree.
Before that? Not a chance.
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Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 23:58 - Jan 19 with 2432 views
Gove comparing Prince Charlie to Hitler been done yet? on 23:57 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont
We must be talking about a different timeframe then. If you said those were mixed in with the last few years of Corbyn and Labour attacks then I might agree.
Before that? Not a chance.
We'll have to agree to disagree then as I'm certain. I'll PM you my reasons tomorrow if I have time, but I'm going to bed now, g'night.
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