'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 10:54 - Jan 19 with 2005 views | FrimleyBlue |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 10:45 - Jan 19 by Guthrum | It's the fact that key areas of the team (the attacking and goalscoring element, for example) were almost totally reliant on youths and lower division fresh recruits. |
Exactly. Surely for all people to understand how hard it must have been for Lambert to pick a team..... Roberts up front......... Roberts. Lovely guy. But come on. If anything shows what a mess Hurst left. It's this. | |
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exactly on 10:54 - Jan 19 with 2004 views | Dyland |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 10:41 - Jan 19 by Guthrum | A "new manager bounce" can only occur when the situation has been of the manager holding the players back. If the squad itself is not up to scratch, there's nothing to bounce with. In previous seasons, the new bloke was quite likely to have been able to bring in a player or two immediately, under the "emergency" loan system, to rectify that. But such a thing no longer exists, with transfers strictly confined to the narrow summer and January windows. |
Incredibly churlish to criticise Lambert for the lack of quick turn in form, imo. | |
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Oh, you x on 10:57 - Jan 19 with 1998 views | Dyland |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 10:24 - Jan 19 by Herbivore | I think even taking into account the squad he inherited, 9 points from 12 games is disappointing. |
It's disappointing of course, and without giving any context at all I'd say it was sh1t. But that would be silly. You're arguing the toss aren't you. Are you hungover? Or still on a session from Friday? :) | |
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'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 10:58 - Jan 19 with 1995 views | Guthrum |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 10:46 - Jan 19 by christiand | Quite agree, that's why I highlighted that in regards to responding to the OP. |
Yes, I was agreeing with you. | |
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'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 11:07 - Jan 19 with 1983 views | thebooks |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 10:09 - Jan 19 by PauLambertIsABlue | Maybe my blind optimism has been affected by the away games. Am I getting too carried away do you think? Just put a cheeky £5 bet on Ipswich to win 2-1 this afternoon with Jack Lancaster to score first & Ipswich to stay up, combined together gives you 675/1. Same bet with Will Keane first goalscorer. 450/1. Same again with James Collins to score first, 2250/1. I guess the odds don't lie! |
Nothing wrong with being optimistic and I hope you're right. I think there's some hope in the new signings making a big difference, but I still think we'll end up relegated. The Rotherham atmosphere was great, but there was an element of craziness in it. Hope your bet pays off! | | | |
I think you should have a punch up anyway on 11:16 - Jan 19 with 1970 views | Dyland |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 10:58 - Jan 19 by Guthrum | Yes, I was agreeing with you. |
Frimmers may want to join in, judging by his belligerent attitude to Lambert's lovely travel cost gesture. | |
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'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 11:18 - Jan 19 with 1980 views | GavTWTD | I think some expect a "new manager bounce" but it's different for us. New managers can usually tweak a couple of things and get instant results, but that wasn't possible here due to so many new and inexperienced players at this level, and before the transfer window opened so had to work with what he had. What we have now is the start of "his team" although it may take another two windows or mote to undo what Hurst has done. Having run this site for so many years, it's great to see some positivity on here, and to have a manager that loves the club. | |
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Oh, you x on 11:26 - Jan 19 with 1953 views | Herbivore |
Oh, you x on 10:57 - Jan 19 by Dyland | It's disappointing of course, and without giving any context at all I'd say it was sh1t. But that would be silly. You're arguing the toss aren't you. Are you hungover? Or still on a session from Friday? :) |
Neither, sadly. I think even with the context of it being a not great squad inherited from a clueless manager, 9 points from those 12 games is a bit disappointing. We've had home games with Preston, Brizzle, Wigan, Millwall and Rotherham in that run of games as well as the trip to a poor Reading side. I actually think had we held on in one of those first two games under PL we'd be much better off than just the extra 2 points. Confidence has been a huge issue. But as I say, overall I'm a big fan of Lambert but on the pitch results and performances haven't been great even allowing for the context. I'm hopeful things will improve though, but I think survival is probably beyond us. [Post edited 19 Jan 2019 11:30]
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Confidence is the point though on 11:30 - Jan 19 with 1942 views | Dyland |
Oh, you x on 11:26 - Jan 19 by Herbivore | Neither, sadly. I think even with the context of it being a not great squad inherited from a clueless manager, 9 points from those 12 games is a bit disappointing. We've had home games with Preston, Brizzle, Wigan, Millwall and Rotherham in that run of games as well as the trip to a poor Reading side. I actually think had we held on in one of those first two games under PL we'd be much better off than just the extra 2 points. Confidence has been a huge issue. But as I say, overall I'm a big fan of Lambert but on the pitch results and performances haven't been great even allowing for the context. I'm hopeful things will improve though, but I think survival is probably beyond us. [Post edited 19 Jan 2019 11:30]
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They/we were shot psychologically. I'll let Reading go (and Preston), cos mistakes happen. Brizzle and Millwall should have seen us with 6 points more. We need magic beans as well as quality. Or a hypnotist. But maybe, just maybe, holding on against Rotherham (yeh right) will help us turn that corner. If, if, IF Collins can stay fit and we can get an additional defender ideally RB. | |
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'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 11:33 - Jan 19 with 1937 views | thebooks |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 11:18 - Jan 19 by GavTWTD | I think some expect a "new manager bounce" but it's different for us. New managers can usually tweak a couple of things and get instant results, but that wasn't possible here due to so many new and inexperienced players at this level, and before the transfer window opened so had to work with what he had. What we have now is the start of "his team" although it may take another two windows or mote to undo what Hurst has done. Having run this site for so many years, it's great to see some positivity on here, and to have a manager that loves the club. |
Yeah, I think it's important to differentiate between his great work at the club and what an overall excellent manager he is, with (in my opinion) some of the wrong decisions he's made on the pitch within our context. We tend to cast managers here as either good or evil. I think we all agree PL is a good thing. | | | |
Confidence is the point though on 11:36 - Jan 19 with 1930 views | Herbivore |
Confidence is the point though on 11:30 - Jan 19 by Dyland | They/we were shot psychologically. I'll let Reading go (and Preston), cos mistakes happen. Brizzle and Millwall should have seen us with 6 points more. We need magic beans as well as quality. Or a hypnotist. But maybe, just maybe, holding on against Rotherham (yeh right) will help us turn that corner. If, if, IF Collins can stay fit and we can get an additional defender ideally RB. |
I genuinely think if Collins had been here all season we wouldn't be bottom 3, he makes that much of a difference. Thankfully the new boys that have come in don't have the psychological baggage so if they can give us a lift there is a slim chance we can pull off a miracle and get out of it. All it takes is a couple of wins and a side can go on a run. Norwich looked as poor as us at PR and look at them now, with the same group of players. Likewise with Hull. | |
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'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 11:38 - Jan 19 with 1922 views | Superfrans | In actual fact, before today’s game, Hurst and Lambert’s record is fairly similar - albeit Lambert has had 12 league games and secured the same number of points as Hurst did in 14, scored the same number of goals and conceded one fewer. Their full league records so far (before today’s match) are: Hurst - P14 W1 D6 L7 F11 A22 Pts9 Lambert - P12 W2 D3 L7 F11 A21 Pts9 The point in Lambert’s favour is that he has achieved this while having to work with the players left behind by Hurst and without any kind of pre-season or the opportunity to at least try to retain any of Webster, Waghorn or Garner. Whatever this all proves, a few things are surely indisputable - Lambert has lifted the club, the players and fans in a way that Hurst came nowhere near. | |
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Confidence is the point though on 11:40 - Jan 19 with 1919 views | Tonytown |
Confidence is the point though on 11:36 - Jan 19 by Herbivore | I genuinely think if Collins had been here all season we wouldn't be bottom 3, he makes that much of a difference. Thankfully the new boys that have come in don't have the psychological baggage so if they can give us a lift there is a slim chance we can pull off a miracle and get out of it. All it takes is a couple of wins and a side can go on a run. Norwich looked as poor as us at PR and look at them now, with the same group of players. Likewise with Hull. |
The comparison to MM is not fair as he was able to use the loan window which Lambert couldn’t. Let’s see what happens from now on | | | |
Indeed on 11:42 - Jan 19 with 1917 views | Dyland |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 11:38 - Jan 19 by Superfrans | In actual fact, before today’s game, Hurst and Lambert’s record is fairly similar - albeit Lambert has had 12 league games and secured the same number of points as Hurst did in 14, scored the same number of goals and conceded one fewer. Their full league records so far (before today’s match) are: Hurst - P14 W1 D6 L7 F11 A22 Pts9 Lambert - P12 W2 D3 L7 F11 A21 Pts9 The point in Lambert’s favour is that he has achieved this while having to work with the players left behind by Hurst and without any kind of pre-season or the opportunity to at least try to retain any of Webster, Waghorn or Garner. Whatever this all proves, a few things are surely indisputable - Lambert has lifted the club, the players and fans in a way that Hurst came nowhere near. |
I was desperate for Hurst to be successful but even before the season started there was a touch of emperor's new clothes going on. Some fans were greeting everything he said with the comment "it's a breath of fresh air". I didn't get that at all. Compare with Lambert. | |
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Confidence is the point though on 11:42 - Jan 19 with 1913 views | christiand |
Confidence is the point though on 11:36 - Jan 19 by Herbivore | I genuinely think if Collins had been here all season we wouldn't be bottom 3, he makes that much of a difference. Thankfully the new boys that have come in don't have the psychological baggage so if they can give us a lift there is a slim chance we can pull off a miracle and get out of it. All it takes is a couple of wins and a side can go on a run. Norwich looked as poor as us at PR and look at them now, with the same group of players. Likewise with Hull. |
Hull City is an incredible turn around, many thought they were one of the sides we were going to be competing with to avoid relegation, they were that dire during the first few months of the season. Now only a few points off the top 6!!! Although, 6 wins on the bounce helps.......Can lightning strike twice? | |
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Confidence is the point though on 11:46 - Jan 19 with 1903 views | Guthrum |
Confidence is the point though on 11:36 - Jan 19 by Herbivore | I genuinely think if Collins had been here all season we wouldn't be bottom 3, he makes that much of a difference. Thankfully the new boys that have come in don't have the psychological baggage so if they can give us a lift there is a slim chance we can pull off a miracle and get out of it. All it takes is a couple of wins and a side can go on a run. Norwich looked as poor as us at PR and look at them now, with the same group of players. Likewise with Hull. |
It's not just confidence, but also the experience to ride over bad days and mistakes in what is, for them (unlike the youths and lower-division recruits), not a new situation*. I get the impression that the few really experienced players we had (particularly Chambers and Skuse) were being overwhelmed by the distraction of having to shepherd and look out for all those around them, causing their own games to suffer as well. Now they have some backup to share the load and against Rotherham the lethal mistakes weren't happening. * By that I mean at the level of the Championship, against tougher opposition, in front of much bigger crowds and with added pressure. [Post edited 19 Jan 2019 11:51]
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Confidence is the point though on 11:49 - Jan 19 with 1898 views | Herbivore |
Confidence is the point though on 11:40 - Jan 19 by Tonytown | The comparison to MM is not fair as he was able to use the loan window which Lambert couldn’t. Let’s see what happens from now on |
Who did he sign pre-January though? We already had about 7 loanees in the squad when he arrived. It's a reasonable comparison imo, though not entirely like for like admittedly. However, MM took 23 points from his first 12 games in comparison to Lambert taking 9 from the same period which is a massive difference. | |
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'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 11:55 - Jan 19 with 1885 views | Darth_Koont |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 09:47 - Jan 19 by Herbivore | I wasn't expecting miracles but I was expecting a bit more than 9 points from 12 games. I'm supportive of Lambert and he's done a lot of good but results and performances haven't been great. The form table does look better currently (though unlikely to be good enough to keep us up) as it includes both our wins under Lambert. Let's hope after today our 6 game form still includes 2 wins. |
I agree on the whole. But we could and perhaps should have been a lot better off from those 12 games if we didn't have the obvious gaps at CB and upfront that he inherited. With good overall performances in many of these games, I don't think it's a stretch to say we could have double the points over that period even if we only had a vaguely average ability to score goals and defend leads. To back that up, our worst overall performance under Lambert just gave us 3 points and a clean sheet. | |
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Confidence is the point though on 11:59 - Jan 19 with 1879 views | pointofblue |
Confidence is the point though on 11:49 - Jan 19 by Herbivore | Who did he sign pre-January though? We already had about 7 loanees in the squad when he arrived. It's a reasonable comparison imo, though not entirely like for like admittedly. However, MM took 23 points from his first 12 games in comparison to Lambert taking 9 from the same period which is a massive difference. |
Kelly Youga, Tyrone Barnett and Bradley Orr. Though to be fair Jewell left Mick with a much better squad than Hurst left Lambert. | |
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Confidence is the point though on 12:01 - Jan 19 with 1877 views | Herbivore |
Confidence is the point though on 11:46 - Jan 19 by Guthrum | It's not just confidence, but also the experience to ride over bad days and mistakes in what is, for them (unlike the youths and lower-division recruits), not a new situation*. I get the impression that the few really experienced players we had (particularly Chambers and Skuse) were being overwhelmed by the distraction of having to shepherd and look out for all those around them, causing their own games to suffer as well. Now they have some backup to share the load and against Rotherham the lethal mistakes weren't happening. * By that I mean at the level of the Championship, against tougher opposition, in front of much bigger crowds and with added pressure. [Post edited 19 Jan 2019 11:51]
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Collins just brought such calmness and presence, you could see almost instantly that was what we've been missing at key times this season. If we'd had his quality and experience we'd have beaten Millwall, Brizzle and Reading as a minimum imo and we'd be just outside the bottom 3. Whether it's now too late who knows but winning a genuine must win game last week has to give everyone a boost. Plus we've now added Judge to the squad and he is a proper player. I retain some optimism, especially long term. | |
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Confidence is the point though on 12:02 - Jan 19 with 1872 views | Herbivore |
Confidence is the point though on 11:59 - Jan 19 by pointofblue | Kelly Youga, Tyrone Barnett and Bradley Orr. Though to be fair Jewell left Mick with a much better squad than Hurst left Lambert. |
I'm not sure if people felt that way about that squad at the time. They were dreadful. | |
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'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 12:03 - Jan 19 with 1872 views | Superfrans |
'we haven’t exactly hit the ground running under PL' on 11:55 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont | I agree on the whole. But we could and perhaps should have been a lot better off from those 12 games if we didn't have the obvious gaps at CB and upfront that he inherited. With good overall performances in many of these games, I don't think it's a stretch to say we could have double the points over that period even if we only had a vaguely average ability to score goals and defend leads. To back that up, our worst overall performance under Lambert just gave us 3 points and a clean sheet. |
Also, we’ve been ahead and failed to win in 8 games this season. EIGHT! Had we held on in all of them, that’s an extra 18 points - 6 of the games resulted in draws, two in defeats. If we’d managed the kind of backs to the wall performance in half of them, we could have an extra 8/9 points. That’s the difference between being where we are and being fifth bottom. Of course, it’s all ifs, buts and maybes. But a more solid defence would have made all the difference. | |
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