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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:18 - Jan 19 by m14_blue
Were you one of the people who complained about Project Fear?
Project fear - it's public knowledge. If UK remains in the EU we WILL adopt the Euro, we WILL be integrated into a single European Arm, immigration criticism WILL be criminalised - it's all there, you can read it for yourself and the source isn't some far right luny, it's the EU, they are public with the plans - it's the remain camp that are not promoting their view here because they know it loses voters.
Just be honest with people and say thats what you want?
I am anti- both red and blue btw, all politicians are leeches and their supporters are mindless zealots who have no grounding in reality.
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:17 - Jan 19 by LeagueOne
As long as your side admits to the public they are voting for a more federalised, centralised Europe this time with a single currency, which the UK will adopt and the disbandment of the British Army in favour of a single European Army and the incrimination and imprisonment of immigration critics then thats fine, because I am sure the majority of Remain voters are too scared to tell people that, and these aren't my words, these are the word of the EU.
Go on the doorstep and tell them that a vote for Remain is a vote to adopt the Euro, disband the British army and imprison immigration critics and your "remaining" votes will be the Liberal Democrats.
What is actually wrong with an EU army? Is it the thought of foreign troops on our streets if we have civil unrest at any time? We are already part of a task force on Russia's doorstep. What's the difference? Surely it's a co-ordination thing? We'd still be working with the same countries and with the most (or second most, behind France?) powerful military we'd likely have British leaders at the top levels. Not sure I see the problem. We don't exactly go it alone now as we're members of NATO. The US are a basket case right now.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:24 - Jan 19 with 3486 views
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:22 - Jan 19 by Championship
We have an opt out of joining the Euro.
What is actually wrong with an EU army? Is it the thought of foreign troops on our streets if we have civil unrest at any time? We are already part of a task force on Russia's doorstep. What's the difference? Surely it's a co-ordination thing? We'd still be working with the same countries and with the most (or second most, behind France?) powerful military we'd likely have British leaders at the top levels. Not sure I see the problem. We don't exactly go it alone now as we're members of NATO. The US are a basket case right now.
If you actually do your reading, all the opt outs will eventually expire and we WILL along with others join the Euro.
If you are pro an EU army, go and say that the people is what I am saying, argue that case on the street, not a poxy football forum go out there and be honest too. You sit there telling people Farage and co are liars when your not even telling people your own ambitions.
If you wish to scrap the British Army then argue your case, don't sit there and lie like Clegg and say it was fiction.
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:24 - Jan 19 by LeagueOne
If you actually do your reading, all the opt outs will eventually expire and we WILL along with others join the Euro.
If you are pro an EU army, go and say that the people is what I am saying, argue that case on the street, not a poxy football forum go out there and be honest too. You sit there telling people Farage and co are liars when your not even telling people your own ambitions.
If you wish to scrap the British Army then argue your case, don't sit there and lie like Clegg and say it was fiction.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 22:24]
This is all new information to me to be honest. If you can provide me with a proper source which says our opt outs will expire etc I will happily read it.
As for the Euro, in theory I LOVE the idea of a common currency. In reality it simply doesn't work so I would always oppose that.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:31 - Jan 19 with 3470 views
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:27 - Jan 19 by Championship
This is all new information to me to be honest. If you can provide me with a proper source which says our opt outs will expire etc I will happily read it.
As for the Euro, in theory I LOVE the idea of a common currency. In reality it simply doesn't work so I would always oppose that.
I wouldn’t hold your breath.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:45 - Jan 19 with 3443 views
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:22 - Jan 19 by LeagueOne
Project fear - it's public knowledge. If UK remains in the EU we WILL adopt the Euro, we WILL be integrated into a single European Arm, immigration criticism WILL be criminalised - it's all there, you can read it for yourself and the source isn't some far right luny, it's the EU, they are public with the plans - it's the remain camp that are not promoting their view here because they know it loses voters.
Just be honest with people and say thats what you want?
I am anti- both red and blue btw, all politicians are leeches and their supporters are mindless zealots who have no grounding in reality.
"The opt-outs will expire". (If we leave, yes, rejoining would need them re-negotiating and at that point we will have lost our leverage but otherwise there is no expiry date.)
"immigration criticism will be criminalised" What planet are you on? Where does this come from?
I can't believe "project fear" is coined about those who say we should not fear the EU and we should fear dangerous isolationism.
As for the fear of this second referendum, it would be a clear vote on the deal on the table. If leave was to be reinforced at the ballot box by another vote for it now we have the detail then yes we would leave. Do you honestly believe that if the referendum result had been 52% remain, 48% leave, we would never have had any further referendum on the subject ever? With such a narrow margin there would be more shouting for a second one by now from Farage, Johnson, Gove and co than there is from the SNP for a second one on Scotland.
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 22:22 - Jan 19 by LeagueOne
Project fear - it's public knowledge. If UK remains in the EU we WILL adopt the Euro, we WILL be integrated into a single European Arm, immigration criticism WILL be criminalised - it's all there, you can read it for yourself and the source isn't some far right luny, it's the EU, they are public with the plans - it's the remain camp that are not promoting their view here because they know it loses voters.
Just be honest with people and say thats what you want?
I am anti- both red and blue btw, all politicians are leeches and their supporters are mindless zealots who have no grounding in reality.
For the euro to really work there will eventually need to be a single European government and we won't have individual governments for each country.
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:18 - Jan 19 by BloomBlue
For the euro to really work there will eventually need to be a single European government and we won't have individual governments for each country.
So the Euro doesn't work now?
Why does most of Europe (including a proportion of UK business) use it then?
That has always been the argument against joining the Euro, that somehow it makes central European governance inevitable. I just can't see it myself. Plus, of course, if that was to somehow become the requisite to be a member of the EU, we could always leave then, by which point perhaps we might have thought about how to do so and all the ramifications of it.
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:18 - Jan 19 by BloomBlue
For the euro to really work there will eventually need to be a single European government and we won't have individual governments for each country.
Sounds good to me.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:22 - Jan 19 by Lord_Lucan
I actually think "Leave" would win by a higher margin in a 2nd referendum.
Well if it does then so be it. I've only ever wanted another vote on what leaving would actually be, rather than a vote based on a load of guess work and lies. If the majority want to take the leave deal on offer then at that point that's what will need to happen, however much the likes of me think it'll be a sad day for the UK.
I fully expect the movement to rejoin will begin at that point though. However much changes, things still stay the same. The trend in the world is for ever closer integration.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 23:43]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:35 - Jan 19 by SpruceMoose
Well if it does then so be it. I've only ever wanted another vote on what leaving would actually be, rather than a vote based on a load of guess work and lies. If the majority want to take the leave deal on offer then at that point that's what will need to happen, however much the likes of me think it'll be a sad day for the UK.
I fully expect the movement to rejoin will begin at that point though. However much changes, things still stay the same. The trend in the world is for ever closer integration.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 23:43]
and this is another part of the problem of leaving. It is highly plausible that we might wish to rejoin at some point at the future. If we did we will have forfeited all the special arrangements and vetoes we currently have. I am not too sure France and Germany will be keen to hand them back when we stand at the door saying "we made a mistake, we would like to rejoin".
Better to be absolutely sure the current public opinion is in favour of the deal that is on offer.
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:32 - Jan 19 by Championship
Are you just trolling him or are you seriously pulling for a USofE?
I'm not advocating for that exactly. I just think that's how things will trend over the coming decades and it would better to have a seat at the table, steering things, than insignificance outside of it.
Asia doesn't give a fook about the UK. The US doesn't give a fook either, that 'special relationship' has always been a myth. The only nations that might possibly have an interest in our prosperity are our neighbours. If we are going to throw our lot in with anyone I'd like it up be them because, we, in theory, should have the same end goals.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 23:44]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:39 - Jan 19 by Nthsuffolkblue
and this is another part of the problem of leaving. It is highly plausible that we might wish to rejoin at some point at the future. If we did we will have forfeited all the special arrangements and vetoes we currently have. I am not too sure France and Germany will be keen to hand them back when we stand at the door saying "we made a mistake, we would like to rejoin".
Better to be absolutely sure the current public opinion is in favour of the deal that is on offer.
France and Germany will have had enough of this one foot in one foot out UK attitude that we've had for decades now. They'll want us in hard and all the way I expect. Our special exceptions we enjoy now won't be on offer.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:22 - Jan 19 by Lord_Lucan
I actually think "Leave" would win by a higher margin in a 2nd referendum.
You, Grimboy and Judge Pickles have no fear of a second referendum then? Or is asking democratically for clarification that this deal is what people wanted when they voted leave "the death of democracy" or "in opposition to the most democratic act ever in history" or whatever the line is?
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:39 - Jan 19 by SpruceMoose
I'm not advocating for that exactly. I just think that's how things will trend over the coming decades and it would better to have a seat at the table, steering things, than insignificance outside of it.
Asia doesn't give a fook about the UK. The US doesn't give a fook either, that 'special relationship' has always been a myth. The only nations that might possibly have an interest in our prosperity are our neighbours. If we are going to throw our lot in with anyone I'd like it up be them because, we, in theory, should have the same end goals.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 23:44]
Hard to argue with any of that. I'm sold.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:46 - Jan 19 with 3337 views
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:39 - Jan 19 by SpruceMoose
I'm not advocating for that exactly. I just think that's how things will trend over the coming decades and it would better to have a seat at the table, steering things, than insignificance outside of it.
Asia doesn't give a fook about the UK. The US doesn't give a fook either, that 'special relationship' has always been a myth. The only nations that might possibly have an interest in our prosperity are our neighbours. If we are going to throw our lot in with anyone I'd like it up be them because, we, in theory, should have the same end goals.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 23:44]
I actually think that under Reagan and Thatcher there was something in it. Of course it never stretched beyond looking after their own interests and it was still nigh on impossible to export to the US. Whatever there is or isn't now, it is no special relationship beyond Trump wanting to get whatever he can out of it.
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:43 - Jan 19 by Nthsuffolkblue
You, Grimboy and Judge Pickles have no fear of a second referendum then? Or is asking democratically for clarification that this deal is what people wanted when they voted leave "the death of democracy" or "in opposition to the most democratic act ever in history" or whatever the line is?
[Post edited 19 Jan 2019 23:57]
I do think a lot of the resistance to a second referendum from some Leave voters is down to a creeping worry that the vote may not go their way. Got to slam the EU door shut now, nevermind what the rest of the country might think.
If democracy is their main concern, than advocating for not having a vote is at odds with that.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:46 - Jan 19 by Nthsuffolkblue
I actually think that under Reagan and Thatcher there was something in it. Of course it never stretched beyond looking after their own interests and it was still nigh on impossible to export to the US. Whatever there is or isn't now, it is no special relationship beyond Trump wanting to get whatever he can out of it.
The special relationship was all theirs. They were thirsty when they made eye contact. Shudder.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:46 - Jan 19 by Trequartista
And plunge the country into more division and chaos
Would it be more? Sounds a bit arrogant but if we're going to have chaos and division anyway isn't it better to fix the problem? Some of the older generation would be upset and hard Brexiteers on the far right would be very upset but that might be a price worth paying.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:53 - Jan 19 with 3319 views
Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 23:46 - Jan 19 by Trequartista
And plunge the country into more division and chaos
What more division and chaos would result?
Right now there are 3 courses open (Remain, May's deal, no deal) with the MPs split roughly equally on each of them.
Putting the most sensible two options (remain and May's deal) to the electorate or all three (do you still wish to leave? followed by May's deal or No deal?) would leave a clear democratic decision for the government to follow.
I would advocate the Government doing the right thing which is why I think Cameron holding the referendum for the perceived benefit of uniting his party was so ill-judged. But where the politicians cannot agree and the position we are in is a result of the referendum why wouldn't we consult again?
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