| Gerken on penalties 10:05 - Jan 20 with 4619 views | Keaneish |
I've never understood why any keeper would guess which way the ball is going. As a keeper you're immediately putting yourself at 50% disadvantage. If he waits until the ball is kicked he's at least got a chance to go the right way and get his body somewhere near it. If it's a good pen then so be it but anything less and he's in with a sniff of a save.
Every time we conceed a pen now it's a guaranteed goal. Look at Pickford or Paul Cooper for that matter. Not the biggest keepers but you always fancy / fancied them to pull off a save because they wait for the ball to be kicked. No point reading the man. The man doesn't need saving!
Jimmy Walker, have a word. |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 10:10 - Jan 20 with 4218 views | wkj |
The funny thing is I was thinking about keepers before the game yesterday, The one thing I remember (correctly I hope) Scott Loach being decent at was pennos, if only he left that quality in the boot room for someone else when he left.
But I agree, not one of Dean's strong points I agree. |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 10:15 - Jan 20 with 4181 views | artsbossbeard |
Or a 50% advantage if it comes off and the standard analysis of opposition penalty takers that is done as a matter of course is correct. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Gerken on penalties on 10:23 - Jan 20 with 4150 views | Simonds92 |
Completely agree Bart does the same they both go too early before the taker has struck the ball. |  | | |
| Gerken on penalties on 11:07 - Jan 20 with 4042 views | JakeITFC |
Certainly when I was growing up, the teaching seemed to be that you’d pick a way and commit fully to it.
Probably quite difficult to change the habit of a lifetime. |  | | |
| Gerken on penalties on 11:23 - Jan 20 with 3980 views | WadeyBlue |
There was a documentary on Italia 90, and Peter Shilton said he did exactly that in the penalty shootout v Germany, waited till every ball was kicked so he could try to save every shot. He explained unfortunately that due to the distance from the penalty spot and the speed of the travelling ball its physically impossible to get a human body to travel from a standing position to laying on the ground, before the ball has travelled over the line if u wait till its kicked.
Its just not scientifically possible. | |
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| Gerken on penalties on 11:31 - Jan 20 with 3961 views | BlueForYou |
As a former keeper (although not at this level!) I would say wait & try to save the shot. If you can nick a couple of yards to slightly narrow the angle all the better as most refs are useless. I think this method definately puts more pressure on the penalty taker, as if you guess & move too early you give the game away to a cool smart taker. |  | | |
| Gerken on penalties on 12:49 - Jan 20 with 3857 views | longtimefan |
| Gerken on penalties on 10:10 - Jan 20 by wkj |
The funny thing is I was thinking about keepers before the game yesterday, The one thing I remember (correctly I hope) Scott Loach being decent at was pennos, if only he left that quality in the boot room for someone else when he left.
But I agree, not one of Dean's strong points I agree. |
Unfortunately one of your cited examples, Paul Cooper, probably one of the best penalty savers going, did exactly that. He played mind games with the taker and always leaned one way in an exaggerated manner. Most takers put the ball the side he was leaning, presumably thinking he would actually dive the other way. He didn’t though, he would dive the way he leaned and very often save the penalty. I doubt very much he would have had the same sucessful record in the modern game with its TV saturation, as his “technique” would have been observed and analysed to death.
Edit: was meant as reply to OP, not the one linked. [Post edited 20 Jan 2019 12:50]
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| Gerken on penalties on 12:55 - Jan 20 with 3830 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties, as opposed to about 20% by waiting |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 13:20 - Jan 20 with 3776 views | Dubtractor |
| Gerken on penalties on 12:55 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties, as opposed to about 20% by waiting |
"Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties"
That sounds like a massively dubious statistic, coupled with the pairing of "chance" and "85%" which is linking as possibility with a statistical certainty. |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 13:33 - Jan 20 with 3734 views | Superfrans |
It’s a fairly established principle, for as long as I’ve been watching football that a keeper should make his mind up which way to go and dive. Presumably this was the most effective technique when (by and large) a pen was hammered low into one corner or another.
These days, when so many penalty takers wait to see which way the keeper dives, or put the ball fairly centrally, it’s a good point. Certainly yesterday Dean would have done better ti wait until the pen was being taken - it was a terrible penalty. |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 13:59 - Jan 20 with 3696 views | BtreeBlueBlood |
| Gerken on penalties on 11:23 - Jan 20 by WadeyBlue |
There was a documentary on Italia 90, and Peter Shilton said he did exactly that in the penalty shootout v Germany, waited till every ball was kicked so he could try to save every shot. He explained unfortunately that due to the distance from the penalty spot and the speed of the travelling ball its physically impossible to get a human body to travel from a standing position to laying on the ground, before the ball has travelled over the line if u wait till its kicked.
Its just not scientifically possible. |
Why did beasant come off the bench that day.
He had saved a few for the dons |  | | |
| Gerken on penalties on 14:05 - Jan 20 with 3683 views | Trequartista |
Utter nonsense. |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 14:26 - Jan 20 with 3650 views | Guthrum |
The speed of a football, kicked hard, is around 90mph. That works out as 44 yards per second.
From the penalty spot to the goal-line is 12 yards, which a 90mph ball would cover in 0.27 seconds.
The reaction times for an athlete are in the region of 0.16 seconds.
That would leave the goalie only 0.11 seconds to travel from the centre of the goalmouth to, potentially, the edge.
To cover the four yards from the centre of the goal to the post on either side in just 0.11 seconds would require a standing leap with an average speed of 74mph. I'm pretty sure that's not possible.
Anticipation (deciding which way to go) removes that reaction time and gives a far better chance of getting to the ball.
Also, as with a batsman in cricket (who gets almost twice the time to react and is allowed to move before the ball is released), the 'keeper will be able to use things about the run-up and shape of the kicker to work out which way the ball is likely to go. A clever penalty taker will try to disguise that. [Post edited 20 Jan 2019 14:35]
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| Gerken on penalties on 14:28 - Jan 20 with 3641 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Gerken on penalties on 13:20 - Jan 20 by Dubtractor |
"Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties"
That sounds like a massively dubious statistic, coupled with the pairing of "chance" and "85%" which is linking as possibility with a statistical certainty. |
Not really - a small portion of penalties will be hit so well and in the corner that they basically can’t be saved regardless, but the rest would theoretically be saveable if you have guessed the right way
By standing and waiting the portion that are saveable will be reduced massively, as you just wouldn’t be able to get down or across quick enough | |
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| Gerken on penalties on 15:10 - Jan 20 with 3584 views | Keaneish |
| Gerken on penalties on 13:33 - Jan 20 by Superfrans |
It’s a fairly established principle, for as long as I’ve been watching football that a keeper should make his mind up which way to go and dive. Presumably this was the most effective technique when (by and large) a pen was hammered low into one corner or another.
These days, when so many penalty takers wait to see which way the keeper dives, or put the ball fairly centrally, it’s a good point. Certainly yesterday Dean would have done better ti wait until the pen was being taken - it was a terrible penalty. |
This is it. If you're a keeper known for waiting until the ball is kicked, it puts added pressure on the taker to get the penalty exact. If you're a keeper known for guessing, all you need to do is shape one way and put it the other or dummy the initial kick with a slight hesitancy to have a look which way the keeper is shaping up.
That said, I'd rather we didn't concede any pens in the first place. [Post edited 20 Jan 2019 15:38]
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| Gerken on penalties on 15:10 - Jan 20 with 3581 views | Keaneish |
| Gerken on penalties on 14:05 - Jan 20 by Trequartista |
Utter nonsense. |
As is your post in response. | |
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| Gerken on penalties on 15:14 - Jan 20 with 3578 views | textbackup |
you know what I was going to post nearly the same, as soon as we'd conceded that pen I knew if on target we'd be 1-0. has he ever done anything but fall to a knee on a pen? |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 16:23 - Jan 20 with 3501 views | Trequartista |
| Gerken on penalties on 15:10 - Jan 20 by Keaneish |
As is your post in response. |
You are right (about it being a rubbish reply), i will go into detail instead.
If you don't dive early you won't get to the ball. The only reason it goes down the middle nowadays is strikers trying to double-bluff. If the percentage of double-bluffing reaches a certain level, then maybe keepers won't move. Until then, they have to dive. [Post edited 20 Jan 2019 16:24]
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| Gerken on penalties on 17:16 - Jan 20 with 3423 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Gerken on penalties on 16:23 - Jan 20 by Trequartista |
You are right (about it being a rubbish reply), i will go into detail instead.
If you don't dive early you won't get to the ball. The only reason it goes down the middle nowadays is strikers trying to double-bluff. If the percentage of double-bluffing reaches a certain level, then maybe keepers won't move. Until then, they have to dive. [Post edited 20 Jan 2019 16:24]
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Clearly this
OP and a couple of others seem to have also forgotten that for penalties, the odds are stacked firmly towards the taker | |
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| Gerken on penalties on 20:55 - Jan 20 with 3236 views | Deano69 |
| Gerken on penalties on 12:55 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties, as opposed to about 20% by waiting |
Isn’t that 105%? |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 20:55 - Jan 20 with 3238 views | Keaneish |
| Gerken on penalties on 17:16 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Clearly this
OP and a couple of others seem to have also forgotten that for penalties, the odds are stacked firmly towards the taker |
Hardly. Point being that some penalties will be poor penalties. If you go the wrong way you have zero chance of saving a dross pen whereas you might have if you wait. | |
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| Gerken on penalties on 20:56 - Jan 20 with 3229 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Gerken on penalties on 20:55 - Jan 20 by Deano69 |
Isn’t that 105%? |
No because they’re not numbers that should be added together | |
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| Gerken on penalties on 20:57 - Jan 20 with 3230 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Gerken on penalties on 20:55 - Jan 20 by Keaneish |
Hardly. Point being that some penalties will be poor penalties. If you go the wrong way you have zero chance of saving a dross pen whereas you might have if you wait. |
If you wait you have less chance of saving a dross pen, than if you’ve guessed and guess right | |
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| Gerken on penalties on 21:21 - Jan 20 with 3199 views | Melford |
| Gerken on penalties on 11:31 - Jan 20 by BlueForYou |
As a former keeper (although not at this level!) I would say wait & try to save the shot. If you can nick a couple of yards to slightly narrow the angle all the better as most refs are useless. I think this method definately puts more pressure on the penalty taker, as if you guess & move too early you give the game away to a cool smart taker. |
I played in goal too, I used to play the mind games. Taking forever to get back on my line, plenty of verbals, adjusting my gloves, jumping around on the goal line waving my arms, pulling stupid faces, blowing kisses whilst cupping my balls. Sometimes it would work, if I fannied about enough they would get so wound up they would just leather the ball as hard as they could and forget about any kind of technique. |  |
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| Gerken on penalties on 22:57 - Jan 20 with 3124 views | ITFC_Forever |
That penalty yesterday was so poor, weak and near the centre that any half-decent goalkeeper should have stood a good chance of saving it. |  |
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