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Gerken on penalties 10:05 - Jan 20 with 2701 viewsKeaneish

I've never understood why any keeper would guess which way the ball is going. As a keeper you're immediately putting yourself at 50% disadvantage. If he waits until the ball is kicked he's at least got a chance to go the right way and get his body somewhere near it. If it's a good pen then so be it but anything less and he's in with a sniff of a save.

Every time we conceed a pen now it's a guaranteed goal. Look at Pickford or Paul Cooper for that matter. Not the biggest keepers but you always fancy / fancied them to pull off a save because they wait for the ball to be kicked. No point reading the man. The man doesn't need saving!

Jimmy Walker, have a word.

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Gerken on penalties on 10:10 - Jan 20 with 2478 viewswkj

The funny thing is I was thinking about keepers before the game yesterday, The one thing I remember (correctly I hope) Scott Loach being decent at was pennos, if only he left that quality in the boot room for someone else when he left.

But I agree, not one of Dean's strong points I agree.

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Gerken on penalties on 10:15 - Jan 20 with 2441 viewsartsbossbeard

Or a 50% advantage if it comes off and the standard analysis of opposition penalty takers that is done as a matter of course is correct.

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Gerken on penalties on 10:23 - Jan 20 with 2410 viewsSimonds92

Completely agree Bart does the same they both go too early before the taker has struck the ball.
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Gerken on penalties on 11:07 - Jan 20 with 2302 viewsJakeITFC

Certainly when I was growing up, the teaching seemed to be that you’d pick a way and commit fully to it.

Probably quite difficult to change the habit of a lifetime.
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Gerken on penalties on 11:23 - Jan 20 with 2240 viewsWadeyBlue

There was a documentary on Italia 90, and Peter Shilton said he did exactly that in the penalty shootout v Germany, waited till every ball was kicked so he could try to save every shot. He explained unfortunately that due to the distance from the penalty spot and the speed of the travelling ball its physically impossible to get a human body to travel from a standing position to laying on the ground, before the ball has travelled over the line if u wait till its kicked.

Its just not scientifically possible.

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Gerken on penalties on 11:31 - Jan 20 with 2221 viewsBlueForYou

As a former keeper (although not at this level!) I would say wait & try to save the shot. If you can nick a couple of yards to slightly narrow the angle all the better as most refs are useless. I think this method definately puts more pressure on the penalty taker, as if you guess & move too early you give the game away to a cool smart taker.
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Gerken on penalties on 12:49 - Jan 20 with 2117 viewslongtimefan

Gerken on penalties on 10:10 - Jan 20 by wkj

The funny thing is I was thinking about keepers before the game yesterday, The one thing I remember (correctly I hope) Scott Loach being decent at was pennos, if only he left that quality in the boot room for someone else when he left.

But I agree, not one of Dean's strong points I agree.


Unfortunately one of your cited examples, Paul Cooper, probably one of the best penalty savers going, did exactly that. He played mind games with the taker and always leaned one way in an exaggerated manner. Most takers put the ball the side he was leaning, presumably thinking he would actually dive the other way. He didn’t though, he would dive the way he leaned and very often save the penalty. I doubt very much he would have had the same sucessful record in the modern game with its TV saturation, as his “technique” would have been observed and analysed to death.

Edit: was meant as reply to OP, not the one linked.
[Post edited 20 Jan 12:50]
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Gerken on penalties on 12:55 - Jan 20 with 2090 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties, as opposed to about 20% by waiting

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Gerken on penalties on 13:20 - Jan 20 with 2036 viewsDubtractor

Gerken on penalties on 12:55 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties, as opposed to about 20% by waiting


"Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties"

That sounds like a massively dubious statistic, coupled with the pairing of "chance" and "85%" which is linking as possibility with a statistical certainty.

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Gerken on penalties on 13:33 - Jan 20 with 1994 viewsSuperfrans

It’s a fairly established principle, for as long as I’ve been watching football that a keeper should make his mind up which way to go and dive. Presumably this was the most effective technique when (by and large) a pen was hammered low into one corner or another.

These days, when so many penalty takers wait to see which way the keeper dives, or put the ball fairly centrally, it’s a good point. Certainly yesterday Dean would have done better ti wait until the pen was being taken - it was a terrible penalty.

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Gerken on penalties on 13:59 - Jan 20 with 1956 viewsBtreeBlueBlood

Gerken on penalties on 11:23 - Jan 20 by WadeyBlue

There was a documentary on Italia 90, and Peter Shilton said he did exactly that in the penalty shootout v Germany, waited till every ball was kicked so he could try to save every shot. He explained unfortunately that due to the distance from the penalty spot and the speed of the travelling ball its physically impossible to get a human body to travel from a standing position to laying on the ground, before the ball has travelled over the line if u wait till its kicked.

Its just not scientifically possible.


Why did beasant come off the bench that day.
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Gerken on penalties on 14:05 - Jan 20 with 1943 viewsTrequartista

Utter nonsense.

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Gerken on penalties on 14:26 - Jan 20 with 1910 viewsGuthrum

The speed of a football, kicked hard, is around 90mph. That works out as 44 yards per second.

From the penalty spot to the goal-line is 12 yards, which a 90mph ball would cover in 0.27 seconds.

The reaction times for an athlete are in the region of 0.16 seconds.

That would leave the goalie only 0.11 seconds to travel from the centre of the goalmouth to, potentially, the edge.

To cover the four yards from the centre of the goal to the post on either side in just 0.11 seconds would require a standing leap with an average speed of 74mph. I'm pretty sure that's not possible.

Anticipation (deciding which way to go) removes that reaction time and gives a far better chance of getting to the ball.

Also, as with a batsman in cricket (who gets almost twice the time to react and is allowed to move before the ball is released), the 'keeper will be able to use things about the run-up and shape of the kicker to work out which way the ball is likely to go. A clever penalty taker will try to disguise that.
[Post edited 20 Jan 14:35]

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Gerken on penalties on 14:28 - Jan 20 with 1901 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Gerken on penalties on 13:20 - Jan 20 by Dubtractor

"Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties"

That sounds like a massively dubious statistic, coupled with the pairing of "chance" and "85%" which is linking as possibility with a statistical certainty.


Not really - a small portion of penalties will be hit so well and in the corner that they basically can’t be saved regardless, but the rest would theoretically be saveable if you have guessed the right way

By standing and waiting the portion that are saveable will be reduced massively, as you just wouldn’t be able to get down or across quick enough

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Gerken on penalties on 15:10 - Jan 20 with 1844 viewsKeaneish

Gerken on penalties on 13:33 - Jan 20 by Superfrans

It’s a fairly established principle, for as long as I’ve been watching football that a keeper should make his mind up which way to go and dive. Presumably this was the most effective technique when (by and large) a pen was hammered low into one corner or another.

These days, when so many penalty takers wait to see which way the keeper dives, or put the ball fairly centrally, it’s a good point. Certainly yesterday Dean would have done better ti wait until the pen was being taken - it was a terrible penalty.


This is it. If you're a keeper known for waiting until the ball is kicked, it puts added pressure on the taker to get the penalty exact. If you're a keeper known for guessing, all you need to do is shape one way and put it the other or dummy the initial kick with a slight hesitancy to have a look which way the keeper is shaping up.

That said, I'd rather we didn't concede any pens in the first place.
[Post edited 20 Jan 15:38]

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Gerken on penalties on 15:10 - Jan 20 with 1841 viewsKeaneish

Gerken on penalties on 14:05 - Jan 20 by Trequartista

Utter nonsense.


As is your post in response.

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Gerken on penalties on 15:14 - Jan 20 with 1838 viewstextbackup

you know what I was going to post nearly the same, as soon as we'd conceded that pen I knew if on target we'd be 1-0. has he ever done anything but fall to a knee on a pen?

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Gerken on penalties on 16:23 - Jan 20 with 1761 viewsTrequartista

Gerken on penalties on 15:10 - Jan 20 by Keaneish

As is your post in response.


You are right (about it being a rubbish reply), i will go into detail instead.

If you don't dive early you won't get to the ball. The only reason it goes down the middle nowadays is strikers trying to double-bluff. If the percentage of double-bluffing reaches a certain level, then maybe keepers won't move. Until then, they have to dive.
[Post edited 20 Jan 16:24]

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Gerken on penalties on 17:16 - Jan 20 with 1683 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Gerken on penalties on 16:23 - Jan 20 by Trequartista

You are right (about it being a rubbish reply), i will go into detail instead.

If you don't dive early you won't get to the ball. The only reason it goes down the middle nowadays is strikers trying to double-bluff. If the percentage of double-bluffing reaches a certain level, then maybe keepers won't move. Until then, they have to dive.
[Post edited 20 Jan 16:24]


Clearly this

OP and a couple of others seem to have also forgotten that for penalties, the odds are stacked firmly towards the taker

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Gerken on penalties on 20:55 - Jan 20 with 1496 viewsDeano69

Gerken on penalties on 12:55 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Because it gives you a chance of saving about 85% of penalties, as opposed to about 20% by waiting


Isn’t that 105%?

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Gerken on penalties on 20:55 - Jan 20 with 1498 viewsKeaneish

Gerken on penalties on 17:16 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Clearly this

OP and a couple of others seem to have also forgotten that for penalties, the odds are stacked firmly towards the taker


Hardly. Point being that some penalties will be poor penalties. If you go the wrong way you have zero chance of saving a dross pen whereas you might have if you wait.

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Gerken on penalties on 20:56 - Jan 20 with 1489 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Gerken on penalties on 20:55 - Jan 20 by Deano69

Isn’t that 105%?


No because they’re not numbers that should be added together

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Gerken on penalties on 20:57 - Jan 20 with 1490 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Gerken on penalties on 20:55 - Jan 20 by Keaneish

Hardly. Point being that some penalties will be poor penalties. If you go the wrong way you have zero chance of saving a dross pen whereas you might have if you wait.


If you wait you have less chance of saving a dross pen, than if you’ve guessed and guess right

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Gerken on penalties on 21:21 - Jan 20 with 1459 viewsMelford

Gerken on penalties on 11:31 - Jan 20 by BlueForYou

As a former keeper (although not at this level!) I would say wait & try to save the shot. If you can nick a couple of yards to slightly narrow the angle all the better as most refs are useless. I think this method definately puts more pressure on the penalty taker, as if you guess & move too early you give the game away to a cool smart taker.


I played in goal too, I used to play the mind games. Taking forever to get back on my line, plenty of verbals, adjusting my gloves, jumping around on the goal line waving my arms, pulling stupid faces, blowing kisses whilst cupping my balls. Sometimes it would work, if I fannied about enough they would get so wound up they would just leather the ball as hard as they could and forget about any kind of technique.

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Gerken on penalties on 22:57 - Jan 20 with 1384 viewsITFC_Forever

That penalty yesterday was so poor, weak and near the centre that any half-decent goalkeeper should have stood a good chance of saving it.

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