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I stopped using Facebook when I found out they were allowing companies to manipulate data to send faceless and factless Brexit propaganda to impressionable people.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2019 13:09]
No, not at the moment
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Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 13:05 - Jan 20 with 8345 views
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 13:05 - Jan 20 by ZedRodgers
I stopped using Facebook when I found out they were allowing companies to manipulate data to send faceless and factless Brexit propaganda to impressionable people.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2019 13:09]
It almost worked but thankfully not enough simple remainers were manipulated and voted for remain
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Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:00 - Jan 20 with 8192 views
On 1, having control of your borders is a reasonable position shared by many other countries around the world.
On 2, the primacy of your own laws and rules, made by elected politicians and judges who follow English law, is not unreasonable and not is it unreasonable to want to retain democracy and not be in a European superstate.
It is 3 which is the biggest issue. People are worried about being poorer. And on this issue, my principles on 1 and 2 have a red line at some point.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2019 14:13]
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Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:11 - Jan 20 with 8162 views
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:04 - Jan 20 by Oxford_Blue
In short it is about
1. People 2. Law 3. Money
On 1, having control of your borders is a reasonable position shared by many other countries around the world.
On 2, the primacy of your own laws and rules, made by elected politicians and judges who follow English law, is not unreasonable and not is it unreasonable to want to retain democracy and not be in a European superstate.
It is 3 which is the biggest issue. People are worried about being poorer. And on this issue, my principles on 1 and 2 have a red line at some point.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2019 14:13]
I like the ability to travel, live and work freely in the EU. I also feel immigration benefits us, so 1 is a happy trade off for me. You've loaded 2 to make it sound like we make none of our own laws or have any input into shaping the laws we adopt from the EU. 3, you're right, we likely will be worse off, though not just financially imo.
I suspect 1 is your main issue (hence it being number 1 on your list) but for me it represents an insular and parochial viewpoint that I simply don't share.
Speaking as someone who has recently been elevated to the heady heights of being one of the metropolitan liberal elite (sneering at that) I can well understand those who feel more comfortable doffing their caps to ordinary folk like Boris Johnson, or that 'man of the people' Rees-Mogg.
And leaving means the UK no longer has to worry about those pesky EU regulations, we just use them under WTO rules and change whenever the EU tells us.
And we don't get those EU busybodies telling us how clean the beaches and the air should be either. No poking their nose into our food (or wanting to eat either, I suspect). Yes, good old sausages in Dettol from the USA for me.
The lower orders need to know their place once again, and leaving the EU will certainly bring back bowing and scrapping.... and rickets, TB and most likely TB.
So vote Leave - the rich need more dumbass fickwits to keep them living off their backs.
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Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:19 - Jan 20 with 8129 views
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:04 - Jan 20 by Oxford_Blue
In short it is about
1. People 2. Law 3. Money
On 1, having control of your borders is a reasonable position shared by many other countries around the world.
On 2, the primacy of your own laws and rules, made by elected politicians and judges who follow English law, is not unreasonable and not is it unreasonable to want to retain democracy and not be in a European superstate.
It is 3 which is the biggest issue. People are worried about being poorer. And on this issue, my principles on 1 and 2 have a red line at some point.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2019 14:13]
I think that’s a fair post.
I can completely understand why people would like control of our borders and laws, even if it doesn’t particularly worry me personally.
What bothers me is the idea that regaining these won’t come at a huge cost. What bothers me even more is that the people who will hear the brunt of this have been lied to by those who won’t be affected in the least. The likes of JRM, Boris and Farage will probably benefit whilst the people they lied to suffer the consequence.
The conflation of Brexit with other campaigns, namely Trump, the FLA and other anti immigration groups also concerns me.
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Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:19 - Jan 20 with 8127 views
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:11 - Jan 20 by Herbivore
I like the ability to travel, live and work freely in the EU. I also feel immigration benefits us, so 1 is a happy trade off for me. You've loaded 2 to make it sound like we make none of our own laws or have any input into shaping the laws we adopt from the EU. 3, you're right, we likely will be worse off, though not just financially imo.
I suspect 1 is your main issue (hence it being number 1 on your list) but for me it represents an insular and parochial viewpoint that I simply don't share.
1. You’ve assumed that control of borders means no immigration. That isn’t the point. The point is having the ability to welcome good quality immigrants who add value. Just like Australia and the Us and many other western countries do. Having no control over your borders means that you cannot stop poor quality immigrants from entering (by which I mean those who don’t want to work, or who take cash in hand jobs and undercut the local economy causing wage deflation). Immigration also hits certain areas disproportionately hard and places a huge strain on local resources. It is inevitable that someone who can earn eight or nine times their minimum wage will come to England. It is a flaw in the EU model where there is such economic disparity.
On 2, the ECA 1972 states that parliament and Uk courts must interpret UK law in line with EU law. There have been numerous cases of this (see “Factortame”). The ECJ is binding on the Supreme Court. Regulations have immediate effect without any domestic legislation being required.
3. I accept this is the main contentious area.
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Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:21 - Jan 20 with 8127 views
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:11 - Jan 20 by Herbivore
I like the ability to travel, live and work freely in the EU. I also feel immigration benefits us, so 1 is a happy trade off for me. You've loaded 2 to make it sound like we make none of our own laws or have any input into shaping the laws we adopt from the EU. 3, you're right, we likely will be worse off, though not just financially imo.
I suspect 1 is your main issue (hence it being number 1 on your list) but for me it represents an insular and parochial viewpoint that I simply don't share.
It isn’t helpful to accuse people of having insular and parochial views. It’s better to look at the merits or otherwise of what they say.
I address some of these in my other post.
I’d be interested as to whether you think there should be uncapped immigration regardless of the social and cultural and economic consequences, or whether you think there should be good quality immigration.
You’re also possibly conflating appreciating Europe as a place (and its culture) which I love as to many of my leave friends and colleagues, with the EU as a political entity. The EU is anti democratic, pro centralised control, and does not respect sovereignty. It is aimed at being a European superstate.
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Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:26 - Jan 20 with 8102 views
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:20 - Jan 20 by Oxford_Blue
1. You’ve assumed that control of borders means no immigration. That isn’t the point. The point is having the ability to welcome good quality immigrants who add value. Just like Australia and the Us and many other western countries do. Having no control over your borders means that you cannot stop poor quality immigrants from entering (by which I mean those who don’t want to work, or who take cash in hand jobs and undercut the local economy causing wage deflation). Immigration also hits certain areas disproportionately hard and places a huge strain on local resources. It is inevitable that someone who can earn eight or nine times their minimum wage will come to England. It is a flaw in the EU model where there is such economic disparity.
On 2, the ECA 1972 states that parliament and Uk courts must interpret UK law in line with EU law. There have been numerous cases of this (see “Factortame”). The ECJ is binding on the Supreme Court. Regulations have immediate effect without any domestic legislation being required.
3. I accept this is the main contentious area.
You want us to model ourselves on Australia and the US? Christ. Who are these immigrants who are coming over here to not work? How are they supporting themselves?
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:29 - Jan 20 by Herbivore
You want us to model ourselves on Australia and the US? Christ. Who are these immigrants who are coming over here to not work? How are they supporting themselves?
Yeah take it from me. You don't want to do that.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:20 - Jan 20 by Oxford_Blue
1. You’ve assumed that control of borders means no immigration. That isn’t the point. The point is having the ability to welcome good quality immigrants who add value. Just like Australia and the Us and many other western countries do. Having no control over your borders means that you cannot stop poor quality immigrants from entering (by which I mean those who don’t want to work, or who take cash in hand jobs and undercut the local economy causing wage deflation). Immigration also hits certain areas disproportionately hard and places a huge strain on local resources. It is inevitable that someone who can earn eight or nine times their minimum wage will come to England. It is a flaw in the EU model where there is such economic disparity.
On 2, the ECA 1972 states that parliament and Uk courts must interpret UK law in line with EU law. There have been numerous cases of this (see “Factortame”). The ECJ is binding on the Supreme Court. Regulations have immediate effect without any domestic legislation being required.
3. I accept this is the main contentious area.
I love your argument about cash in hand jobs. Surely the onus is on the person paying to insist on correct invoices with VAT clearly shown. Of course British tradesmen would never accept cash in hand payments.
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Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:54 - Jan 20 with 8049 views
Some seem to struggle to explain to the remoaners why we should leave. on 14:36 - Jan 20 by blueislander
I love your argument about cash in hand jobs. Surely the onus is on the person paying to insist on correct invoices with VAT clearly shown. Of course British tradesmen would never accept cash in hand payments.
Wage deflation is an issue. If you’re a British plumber, you need to earn a certain amount because your family you are supporting is based here. If you’re sharing a flat with eight others and paying little rent and sending money plus benefits back to your family in Eastern Europe (the value of which is significant in local terms) then you’re in a far better position to accept lower rates.
I’m struggling to see why it is unreasonable to have control over a country’s borders and be able to choose an immigration policy that can flex and benefit the country as and when needed.
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