| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party 10:55 - Feb 7 with 44603 views | GlasgowBlue |
Who on here would vote for it?
This attack looks very coordinated this morning
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:37 - Feb 7 with 5231 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:14 - Feb 7 by Guthrum |
The biggest job would be recruiting a membership and setting up a party/constituency structure in the country. |
Don't think recruiting membership would be difficult - up and down the country there are literally millions of politically homeless people desperate for a centrist alternative to the current Lab - Tory offerings. LibDems are never mentioned, and even the Green party seems iffy to me these days - the Challoner issue, Caroline Lucas, some dotty stuff in manifesto etc. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:38 - Feb 7 with 5226 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:23 - Feb 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Well done Ryorry thread linkage between the cow poo one and moderate Labour mp's.....have an uppie. |
Tbf, it's a pretty easy link between MPs and poo ...  | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:41 - Feb 7 with 5212 views | No9 |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:46 - Feb 7 by chicoazul |
Your first sentence would be a *libertarian* ideal, not a right wing one. |
Not libertarian at all more the formation of cartels that operate as they wish. |  | | |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:45 - Feb 7 with 5205 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:24 - Feb 7 by Guthrum |
With the end of heavy industry and mining, much of the traditional base of the old Labour Party has gone. What is the Working Class any more? A highly dispersed, non-homogenous set of people working mostly for a large number of smaller enterprises. A majority in the service sector (inc. shop work). Many tradesmen are self-employed.
It's no coincidence that the largest union is now UNISON, which covers public sector non-industrial workers |
Have been saying for a few years that the Labour Party was founded on situation + conditions relevant to the early 20thC, and as such became outdated in the late part of the 20thC. It's been ripe for a fall, and same now applies to the Tories, the more extreme elements of which have been clearly exposed by the whole Brexit fiasco as operating purely out of their own self-interests, rather than for the good of the country. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:47 - Feb 7 with 5196 views | Guthrum |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:06 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
In terms of fertilisation there are stock free methods, the commonest being production of compost! To the soil it's all organic matter, but animals make it a lot easier. They also graze and manage the land of course.
To answer Guthrum too, true, although natural organic methods can turn anywhere into a fertile area. The Sahara has increased hugely. Northern and southern Africa used to be hugely fertile down and up to the equator. Human management practices can turn something into nothing and then back again.
Also, apart from labour, for free. How much does a tomato cost? It will always be nothing |
It's a lot easier to overuse something to destruction than to reverse the process. Some of the UK's nowadays bleakest moorland (e.g. Dartmoor, the Derbyshire Peaks) was deforested and cultivated to destruction in ancient times.
Tomato seeds are not hugely expensive, but they need to come from somewhere. As does the water (lots of it, for tomatoes) and fertiliser. Plus you need quite a lot of tomatoes to feed a family, with only a seasonal crop and vulnerability to disease and weather.
The Irish Potato Famine may have been exacerbated by merciless absentee landlords, but the cause was an outbreak of disease in what was already a marginal farming zone with little access to alternative food sources. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:50 - Feb 7 with 5179 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:47 - Feb 7 by Guthrum |
It's a lot easier to overuse something to destruction than to reverse the process. Some of the UK's nowadays bleakest moorland (e.g. Dartmoor, the Derbyshire Peaks) was deforested and cultivated to destruction in ancient times.
Tomato seeds are not hugely expensive, but they need to come from somewhere. As does the water (lots of it, for tomatoes) and fertiliser. Plus you need quite a lot of tomatoes to feed a family, with only a seasonal crop and vulnerability to disease and weather.
The Irish Potato Famine may have been exacerbated by merciless absentee landlords, but the cause was an outbreak of disease in what was already a marginal farming zone with little access to alternative food sources. |
I found out yesterday that our poor American cousins can no longer grow the glorious blackcurrant due to the risk of it spreading disease. How do they cope over there? No blackcurrants, Kinder Eggs or haggis...  |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:51 - Feb 7 with 5176 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:41 - Feb 7 by No9 |
Not libertarian at all more the formation of cartels that operate as they wish. |
Libertarians are anti-cartel. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:51 - Feb 7 with 5171 views | Bluesquid |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:01 - Feb 7 by matteoblue |
The reformation of left wing parties is well overdue if you consider the underlying nature of them. They are a constant rebuke to the current order of society and their purpose is to change what they perceive to be established norms in society. Labour has struggled with its traditional roots of being the party of the working man ever since Thatcher's reforms which wiped out their traditional strong union hold. They have since been made up much more of the liberal element who were given their freedom under New Labour, and this established majority now exist in all the main parties. The one thing that has perhaps stopped the reforming of a new party is that they might have to be a bit more honest about who they really are and what they support, which is, in general, liberal global economics, high personal taxation, interventionist wars, and multi-culturalism and equality. |
"They have since been made up much more of the liberal element who were given their freedom under New Labour"
Bascially, these lot...
"Over 100 Labour MPs have failed to back the party’s own motion calling for an independent UN investigation into alleged Saudi Arabian war crimes in Yemen and the withdrawal of UK support for bombings in light of alleged atrocities."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/saudi-arabia-yemen-labour-mps-deb | | | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:53 - Feb 7 with 5160 views | Guthrum |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:18 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
Love the sound of that. Sounds like the senate of the Roman republic. |
Only without the bit where faction leaders would march around the city pointing out people to be murdered by their henchmen. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:54 - Feb 7 with 5145 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:47 - Feb 7 by Guthrum |
It's a lot easier to overuse something to destruction than to reverse the process. Some of the UK's nowadays bleakest moorland (e.g. Dartmoor, the Derbyshire Peaks) was deforested and cultivated to destruction in ancient times.
Tomato seeds are not hugely expensive, but they need to come from somewhere. As does the water (lots of it, for tomatoes) and fertiliser. Plus you need quite a lot of tomatoes to feed a family, with only a seasonal crop and vulnerability to disease and weather.
The Irish Potato Famine may have been exacerbated by merciless absentee landlords, but the cause was an outbreak of disease in what was already a marginal farming zone with little access to alternative food sources. |
It's honestly not Guthrum. Wonderful things can be done, for free, very quickly. We could turn moorlands into excellent agricultural land within years, with large scale labour. My point was agriculture is free. It has to be, because it existed before money did!
I always wondered about the Irish potato famine. Why did they just grow potatoes when there's a hundred other things to grow, including other root crops? Perhaps we just have different perceptions? Ireland is one of the most fertile regions in Europe. It's called the emerald isle for a reason! |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:55 - Feb 7 with 5146 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:51 - Feb 7 by chicoazul |
Libertarians are anti-cartel. |
And many are 16-year-old American alt-righters who don't see the irony in never having worked and still living with their parents. Oh well, they'll grow out of it. We humans are social creatures :) | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:55 - Feb 7 with 5137 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:01 - Feb 7 by matteoblue |
The reformation of left wing parties is well overdue if you consider the underlying nature of them. They are a constant rebuke to the current order of society and their purpose is to change what they perceive to be established norms in society. Labour has struggled with its traditional roots of being the party of the working man ever since Thatcher's reforms which wiped out their traditional strong union hold. They have since been made up much more of the liberal element who were given their freedom under New Labour, and this established majority now exist in all the main parties. The one thing that has perhaps stopped the reforming of a new party is that they might have to be a bit more honest about who they really are and what they support, which is, in general, liberal global economics, high personal taxation, interventionist wars, and multi-culturalism and equality. |
"who they really are and what they support...high personal taxation....multi-culturalism and equality"
Hmmmm, what does that sound like..? | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:56 - Feb 7 with 5126 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:53 - Feb 7 by Guthrum |
Only without the bit where faction leaders would march around the city pointing out people to be murdered by their henchmen. |
Well, that would be nice. They tended to bump off their own (the elite) at least though. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:57 - Feb 7 with 5128 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:55 - Feb 7 by footers |
And many are 16-year-old American alt-righters who don't see the irony in never having worked and still living with their parents. Oh well, they'll grow out of it. We humans are social creatures :) |
Absolutely. Committed Libertarians are utter rseholes and as you say it is something everyone should grow out of. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:00 - Feb 7 with 5114 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:57 - Feb 7 by chicoazul |
Absolutely. Committed Libertarians are utter rseholes and as you say it is something everyone should grow out of. |
It would be a funny experiment to rip up the social contract completely and see how they get on. But I'm all right for a Mad Max scenario... for now. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:01 - Feb 7 with 5108 views | BloomBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:54 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
It's honestly not Guthrum. Wonderful things can be done, for free, very quickly. We could turn moorlands into excellent agricultural land within years, with large scale labour. My point was agriculture is free. It has to be, because it existed before money did!
I always wondered about the Irish potato famine. Why did they just grow potatoes when there's a hundred other things to grow, including other root crops? Perhaps we just have different perceptions? Ireland is one of the most fertile regions in Europe. It's called the emerald isle for a reason! |
But before when men needed seeds to grow crops they exchange their 14 virgin daughter for a load of tomateo seeds |  | | |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:03 - Feb 7 with 5104 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:45 - Feb 7 by Ryorry |
Have been saying for a few years that the Labour Party was founded on situation + conditions relevant to the early 20thC, and as such became outdated in the late part of the 20thC. It's been ripe for a fall, and same now applies to the Tories, the more extreme elements of which have been clearly exposed by the whole Brexit fiasco as operating purely out of their own self-interests, rather than for the good of the country. |
Though the working class does not have the same character or uniformity as before, that does not mean it does not exist however. There will always be a majority section of the population who are essentially wage slaves.
However, that's thinking narrowly all the same. There are factory workers in the UK now just like there were in the early 20th, only now they are likely to be from Eastern Europe or further afield. What do we as a country have to offer them except better wages than where they're from? There's still the exploitation.
The next working class movement will be internationalist. The factories of yesterday have been shipped off to China and places with no political freedom. We have to concern ourselves with this. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:04 - Feb 7 with 5101 views | Guthrum |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:56 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
Well, that would be nice. They tended to bump off their own (the elite) at least though. |
Not particularly - they had their own bodyguards. Killing the lesser people was supposed to influence voting. That was when they weren't starting riots to burn down entire neighbourhoods and slaughter anyone who happened to get in their way.
Roman Republican politics was not the nice place Elightenment philosophers portrayed it to be. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:06 - Feb 7 with 5089 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:04 - Feb 7 by Guthrum |
Not particularly - they had their own bodyguards. Killing the lesser people was supposed to influence voting. That was when they weren't starting riots to burn down entire neighbourhoods and slaughter anyone who happened to get in their way.
Roman Republican politics was not the nice place Elightenment philosophers portrayed it to be. |
What are you referring to specifically there? I was led to believe if you wanted someone to vote your way back then you just paid them to do so. Plus the way the tribal assemblies worked, basically no one's vote mattered anyway (similar again to Britain in the 18th C). | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:07 - Feb 7 with 5081 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:01 - Feb 7 by BloomBlue |
But before when men needed seeds to grow crops they exchange their 14 virgin daughter for a load of tomateo seeds |
No they didn't. They just got them from a wild tomato plant, silly. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:11 - Feb 7 with 5058 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:36 - Feb 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Will they stay or go?
Do you appreciate Corbyn's (statesmanlike!)relaxation of the 6 tests to enable a moderate Brexit reflective of the referendum outcome? [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 14:07]
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Just in case you missed it GB. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:14 - Feb 7 with 5052 views | Guthrum |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:06 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
What are you referring to specifically there? I was led to believe if you wanted someone to vote your way back then you just paid them to do so. Plus the way the tribal assemblies worked, basically no one's vote mattered anyway (similar again to Britain in the 18th C). |
Oh, there was widespread bribery as well. Votes did matter, most of the senior governmental positions were up for election.
Many incidents, the Proscription of Sulla and the struggles at the time of the two Triumvirates are the most famous. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:17 - Feb 7 with 5044 views | eireblue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:54 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
It's honestly not Guthrum. Wonderful things can be done, for free, very quickly. We could turn moorlands into excellent agricultural land within years, with large scale labour. My point was agriculture is free. It has to be, because it existed before money did!
I always wondered about the Irish potato famine. Why did they just grow potatoes when there's a hundred other things to grow, including other root crops? Perhaps we just have different perceptions? Ireland is one of the most fertile regions in Europe. It's called the emerald isle for a reason! |
Food was exported from the Emerald Isle during the famine.
If you hold a view that in-action or in-difference, in certain circumstances, can be deemed a criminal act, then, you could argue that the British Governments action during the famine, was in effect, a genocidal act. |  | | |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:22 - Feb 7 with 5031 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:14 - Feb 7 by Guthrum |
Oh, there was widespread bribery as well. Votes did matter, most of the senior governmental positions were up for election.
Many incidents, the Proscription of Sulla and the struggles at the time of the two Triumvirates are the most famous. |
No I mean the weight and value of each vote was largely worthless. The tribal assemblies had four urban tribes that had the vast majority of the population of Rome, while other rural tribes had very few members. So you often only needed 100 votes to win or something silly.
Sulla's proscriptions are noteworthy historically for how he attacked the equestrian or knight class. Ditto the triumvirate. It removed political opposition and raised much needed funds. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:25 - Feb 7 with 5025 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:17 - Feb 7 by eireblue |
Food was exported from the Emerald Isle during the famine.
If you hold a view that in-action or in-difference, in certain circumstances, can be deemed a criminal act, then, you could argue that the British Governments action during the famine, was in effect, a genocidal act. |
Yes I thought that was the case but have been controversial enough as it is for one day for TWTD. If I were to agree with you that the British state committed genocide GB would have another feinting fit. Benters a coronary... | |
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